Now tell me fish can't learn !

[Ian Grant]

Thats it in a nutshell Ray

Ian.

 

[Colin Gordon]

Some way back in this thread Damian Kimmins raised a valid point about chub ejecting a bait once resistance was felt and how this was not an extention of its natural behaviour because in the course of its unhindered untouched by man life it would never come across such a occurance.

Very true but IMO all the chub is displaying is its instinctive weariness and fearfulness.
BUT
As the old saying goes.... Chub are the most fearful of all fish but also the greediest!!
Its this second point of the saying that we as anglers exploit, or at least try too.

When you have a chub eject a bait for no other reason than it felt resistance IMO this is simply because that said fish is already on edge / weary normally because it has left its lair and therefore its comfort / safety zone.
But
If you were to place the very same bait and rig but change the line to 50lb fluorescent green line only this time place the bait right inside the chub's comfort / safety zone then three quarters of the time the fish will swallow the bait.

This to me shows no thought, intelligence or learning.
Just instinctive reactions to certain circumstances.

On rivers that have very low stocking densities of any species chub, barbel whatever.
Obviously the fish behave differently to those on waters that are well stocked.
There are several reasons for this....
Less competetion for food would be near the top of what effects a fishes behaviour as said by a few earlier in this thread.

So does most definitely the species 'will' to survive and being in a minority this instinct will be triggered.... No thought or learning involved just inbred species survival, a reaction to a scenario rather than a premeditated thought and therefore indicating the ability to learn.

I'm not saying fish are completely lacking in intelligence merely suggesting that they react without thinking, hence even the weariest fish gets caught from time to time.

 

[Jason Bean]

My experience on this is....if I can find barbel they are not too difficult to catch in my area....barbel seem to come back to there same swims constantly and are getting fewer by the year, otters seems to pluck them out of the same spots every winter...chub around my way are not doing their usual thing by sitting under that same old bush or sitting in that deep hole...they are moving constantly and are evolving to the problems the otters are posing on them.

In my opinion barbel are not that clever unless we want them to be...

Chub definitely are a lot more clever though

Cheers
Jason

 

[Colin Gordon]

My experience on this is....if I can find barbel they are not too difficult to catch in my area....barbel seem to come back to there same swims constantly and are getting fewer by the year, otters seems to pluck them out of the same spots every winter...chub around my way are not doing their usual thing by sitting under that same old bush or sitting in that deep hole...they are moving constantly and are evolving to the problems the otters are posing on them.

In my opinion barbel are not that clever unless we want them to be...

Chub definitely are a lot more clever though

Cheers
Jason

Jason mate, chub aren't more intelligent just more weary....
Try a bit of pruning of the trees the chub hide under but a word of caution.
Don't get carried away or they'll just vacate the swim!!

 

[Stephen Fisher]

My experience on this is....if I can find barbel they are not too difficult to catch in my area....barbel seem to come back to there same swims constantly and are getting fewer by the year, otters seems to pluck them out of the same spots every winter...chub around my way are not doing their usual thing by sitting under that same old bush or sitting in that deep hole...they are moving constantly and are evolving to the problems the otters are posing on them.

In my opinion barbel are not that clever unless we want them to be...

Chub definitely are a lot more clever though

Cheers
Jason

This is an interesting observation as I have seen this on the upper Swale too. The chub now frequent the open water to avoid the otter predation. One barbel shoal did follow suit but when winter came it was curtains ...

 

[Jason Bean]

Perhaps the two main species people fish for as specimens in this country are perhaps barbel and carp....

These are the two main species attributed with intelligence ?

These are the two main species that fight the hardest ?

Easiest to stock nowadays...for commercial reasons ?

Most cash spent on by us clever anglers ?

Most words written about in angling papers nowadays...we all know why, sells papers, bait and tackle

But I think they're they're not most adaptable to otters....not round my way, so if fish can learn barbel an carp are way behind chub bream perch and roach...that's just an observation from smal lrivers and canals round my way

Cheers
Jason

 

[Dave Burr]

Don't forget that it is possible to catch a 'higher' creature from rodents, squirrels and even large animals by baiting a trap and waiting for hunger to overcome caution. Food is a very powerful bait so something as dim as a fish will be relatively easy to tempt.

To believe that barbel or any other fish, has no intelligence will put you at a disadvantage. It is not just association of stimuli and location either. I have observed some acute wary behavior in swims that have had little or even no fishing pressure.

With regard to chub, they appear more 'intelligent' because they have better eyesight and hearing than barbel so are more likely to spot (or hear) you or your clumsy rig.