Normark float rod buyers guide

[Alec Hague]

I have wondered, bearing in mind the support these rods,are almost, whether it is possible to replicate the blanks.To a simpleton like me reverse engineering isn't hard. If all the real expects, Richard et all, could agree on a specc, then its not hens teeth surely. That's all the manufacturers do anyway but I suggest constrained by demands of their accountants and shareholders. If expense were no real obstacle, I wonder? I know of one manufacturer who went out for the holy grail as they saw it recently and ended trading thereafter. But they achieved something quite spectacular and one day the penny/ blindfolds will drop.

 

[Alec Hague]

I have wondered, bearing in mind the support these rods,are almost, whether it is possible to replicate the blanks.To a simpleton like me reverse engineering isn't hard. If all the real expects, Richard et all, could agree on a specc, then its not hens teeth surely. That's all the manufacturers do anyway but I suggest constrained by demands of their accountants and shareholders. If expense were no real obstacle, I wonder? I know of one manufacturer who went out for the holy grail as they saw it recently and ended trading thereafter. But they achieved something quite spectacular and one day the penny/ blindfolds will drop.

Awe and experts, doh

 

[Roy Daintith]

Interesting you should say that; in 1994 Milo launched two rods called the 'Titanic' and 'Revenger' at the National Angling Show in B'ham.

I attended that show and saw the rods and loved the handle (screw down, all cork) and bought the Titanic on launch the following year - in the intervening period they had of course changed the handle to a pigs ear of a Fujji fitting. It is a lovely rod and I ended up with two 14' Revengers (now both missing 1/2" from the tip) and a pristine 15' Revenger. I love these rods - the 14' are steely, very fast tip with a fantastic blank and lots of power further down.

Why tell you all this?

Well, there's a cult following amongst a small group in Italy..I( I daren't tell them I've a 15' model) who have a small website with a good discussion about the rods and they rarely come up for sale.

Just this year in the 2024 Milo catalogue they have relaunched the rods and in their words. just completely reproduced them in the exact same detail as the original models.

Not sure whether that is true about them being an exact reproduction but someone on the Team Normark/Carbotec owners club on FB has bought one so it will be interesting to get their view.

I might buy one on spec just to check them out. The issue in relation to the above is twofold - there was chat in the 90's that the Milo blanks were Daimaru - but not sure if the latter still exist making rod blanks? If they don't I am not sure how the Milo can be exact reproductions of the blanks and if Daimaru aren't still making blanks it would prevent exact copies of the 2000/3000 being manufactured. Be interesting to find out.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

I believe the spelling for the Japanese blanks is Daimaru?

Now, if anyone has any Milo Powerlite/Powerfast/Powertip I'd be delighted to have a chat...££'s.... (sorry for thread drift)

Yes you’re correct regarding the spelling. For some reason my phone wants to change it every time I right Diamaru

Speaking of Milo they’ve bought out another copy. It’s been along time since the very rare Triton and revenger was among us.

This is their current one. Order in from Italy as they ain’t over here. No idea what they are like but at €300 plus I’d expect decent.

it had completely passed me by that Masterline had produced excellent version of the three models;

Just being chatting with Chris about these early mk11’s as it happens. He has a full deck as does Ian woods.
Some much better pictures here to illustrate them and show just how different they were to the later 2003-2007 version
Super slim blank at the but section
Massive stand off on the but section guides and you can see the tippings there aswell in red blue and green. Finding them is the trouble but generally if you do, they are a safe buy as the tips were thicker and way less prone to breaks

Wonderful pictures

 

[Richard Isaacs]

deleted

 

[Chris Jones]

This might interest a few and irritate a few more.
https://www.acquaazzurranews.it/prodotto/canna-inglese-milo-titan-2024-match/
Whether they are ever officially available in the UK is another matter. They aren't even on the Milo Italian website any longer. I understand that a few UK anglers have bought some from continental retailers.

 

[Roy Daintith]

Large stand off rings indeed - wonder how they compare in size to those fitted to modern float rods?

The Milo rod above is the relaunched model I was referring to ~ although it cant be an exact copy as the term 'parabolic' wasn't used in describing float rods until Carbotec popularised the term. Not a fan of parabolic action so that's a 'no' for me

It's a nice idea replicating the various Normarks but I suspect it might be a numbers game; not sure if there's a big enough market for the rods and even if the correct carbon, mandrels and building could be created, the lack of economies of scale would make them a very high price indeed. Having said that, the price of some of the current Daiwa range are at the upper end of the price of custom rod so who knows.

 

[Simon Archer]

Wasn't Geoff Salisbury massively involved with all this Normark/Diamura/Carbotec rod building. My understanding was Diamura, for what ever reason, stopped supplying Normark with their blanks, Geoff then went off and started Carbotec, using the Diamura blank as almost a direct copy of the Normarks.

I can vaguely remember a Normark advert of the time, with a picture the Japanese owner of Diamura on the advert. Was it Yuri ***** or something ??

 

[Alec Hague]

Wasn't Geoff Salisbury massively involved with all this Normark/Diamura/Carbotec rod building. My understanding was Diamura, for what ever reason, stopped supplying Normark with their blanks, Geoff then went off and started Carbotec, using the Diamura blank as almost a direct copy of the Normarks.

I can vaguely remember a Normark advert of the time, with a picture the Japanese owner of Diamura on the advert. Was it Yuri ***** or something ??

I read that carbotec stopped due to increase in price of the Rod blanks so making production unviable economically but alla long time ago now. I liked the idea of Thomas turner replicating and improving on hardy marksman rods and been close to buying once or twice. Not sure how successful this has been for them as a venture but dave coster who is said to have specc'd them leaving won't have helped. Being a philistine I see rods like I see my cars. Poor residual value has always put me off buying new, unless for silly money. My recent experience of middy quartix feeders shows that still holds good.

 

[Roy Daintith]

Wasn't Geoff Salisbury massively involved with all this Normark/Diamura/Carbotec rod building. My understanding was Diamura, for what ever reason, stopped supplying Normark with their blanks, Geoff then went off and started Carbotec, using the Diamura blank as almost a direct copy of the Normarks.

I can vaguely remember a Normark advert of the time, with a picture the Japanese owner of Diamura on the advert. Was it Yuri ***** or something ??

Yes it was along with Omri Thomas. Won't reproduce the article in it's entirety but see the full Carbotec advert and explanatory article here

MATCH RODS - Fishing Rods by mail order from CARBOTEC UK

High Quality Match Fishing Rods Carbotec have declared Zero Tolerance on Lock-up by designing a range of rods which adjust from FAST to MODULATE ACTION whilst playing fish. As you play a fish, the rod initially adopts a fast action curve. Should the fish lunge at any time, the built-in step...

www.carbotec.co.uk

 

[Alec Hague]

Yes it was along with Omri Thomas. Won't reproduce the article in it's entirety but see the full Carbotec advert and explanatory article here

MATCH RODS - Fishing Rods by mail order from CARBOTEC UK

High Quality Match Fishing Rods Carbotec have declared Zero Tolerance on Lock-up by designing a range of rods which adjust from FAST to MODULATE ACTION whilst playing fish. As you play a fish, the rod initially adopts a fast action curve. Should the fish lunge at any time, the built-in step...

www.carbotec.co.uk

Thank you Roy. The article baldly states what I have always believed. Further development of resins etc allowed improvements. My argument, taken from cars, is that if you drive a 20 year old model compared to today's there is noticeable improvement. I thought with rod blanks that had to apply as well and the add confirms that.

 

[Roy Daintith]

No bother; I spoke to Geoff Salisburyjust before the Carbotec feeder rods were launched and he said during field testing, anglers had hooked fish and then turned the rod through about 135 degrees so as to point the rod directly behind the angler 9and away from the water) and the rod action was such that it would absorb the lunges of the fish. You can see in the advert that they describe the stepped tapers coming into play thus absorbing the fish's lunges. I bought one of the original Carbotec13' feeder rods but couldn't get on with it as I felt like I couldn't feel the fish through the rod as the blank reacted to very movement and lunge; hard to describe. I sold the rod in the early noughties for pretty much what I paid - shame as I'd now get quite a bit more. The next range to commercially advertise this ( as far as I remember) was MAP with the first Parabolix rods in a limited run of 500 rods; it was popularised by Preston innovations' 'Carbonactive ' range ~ although they produced alternative ranges subsequently without a parabolic blank. Anyway, this all gets away from the original post of guidance for those buyng Normark Microlight/Titan and avenger rods.

I'll now try and find the Titan 2000 I bought second hand and which I've never used

 

[Alec Hague]

No bother; I spoke to Geoff Salisburyjust before the Carbotec feeder rods were launched and he said during field testing, anglers had hooked fish and then turned the rod through about 135 degrees so as to point the rod directly behind the angler 9and away from the water) and the rod action was such that it would absorb the lunges of the fish. You can see in the advert that they describe the stepped tapers coming into play thus absorbing the fish's lunges. I bought one of the original Carbotec13' feeder rods but couldn't get on with it as I felt like I couldn't feel the fish through the rod as the blank reacted to very movement and lunge; hard to describe. I sold the rod in the early noughties for pretty much what I paid - shame as I'd now get quite a bit more. The next range to commercially advertise this ( as far as I remember) was MAP with the first Parabolix rods in a limited run of 500 rods; it was popularised by Preston innovations' 'Carbonactive ' range ~ although they produced alternative ranges subsequently without a parabolic blank. Anyway, this all gets away from the original post of guidance for those buyng Normark Microlight/Titan and avenger rods.

I'll now try and find the Titan 2000 I bought second hand and which I've never used

That may prove to be financially rewarding Roy. Missed out now but would have liked to try them out.

 

[Andrew Burt]

How time flies, a post I did in 2013 giving some background.

Normark Avenger 3000

Hi folks, I recently purchased a Normark Titan 2000 in exquisite condition and intend to use it for general river float work. Initially, I had it in mind that this might also do for barbel but based on the research I have carried out so far, this may not be the ideal tool if one were to...

barbel.co.uk

 

[Alec Hague]

How time flies, a post I did in 2013 giving some background.

Normark Avenger 3000

Hi folks, I recently purchased a Normark Titan 2000 in exquisite condition and intend to use it for general river float work. Initially, I had it in mind that this might also do for barbel but based on the research I have carried out so far, this may not be the ideal tool if one were to...

barbel.co.uk

Brilliant, thank you. The bit about airbus rings a bell so I must have read this in an earlier life but again, really appreciate it.

 

[Roy Daintith]

How time flies, a post I did in 2013 giving some background.

Normark Avenger 3000

Hi folks, I recently purchased a Normark Titan 2000 in exquisite condition and intend to use it for general river float work. Initially, I had it in mind that this might also do for barbel but based on the research I have carried out so far, this may not be the ideal tool if one were to...

barbel.co.uk

Really interesting, thank you.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Yes it was along with Omri Thomas. Won't reproduce the article in it's entirety but see the full Carbotec advert and explanatory article here

MATCH RODS - Fishing Rods by mail order from CARBOTEC UK

High Quality Match Fishing Rods Carbotec have declared Zero Tolerance on Lock-up by designing a range of rods which adjust from FAST to MODULATE ACTION whilst playing fish. As you play a fish, the rod initially adopts a fast action curve. Should the fish lunge at any time, the built-in step...

www.carbotec.co.uk

Great info on the carbotecs.
I had a full no2 system. 13/15/17ft.
Picked it up for a great price. Superb rods the tech involved with them was impressive but i personally couldn’t get on with it at the longer lengths.
Anything I hooked of size on it even small chub had it into an over exaggerated bend which felt weird to me.
Id of perhaps gone no3 and loved it but you can’t get no3 in the dedicated long rods.
That never made sense to me because the additional stiffness in the no3 would have made a beautiful 17ft trotting rod.

If you haven’t tried a carbotec it’s certainly something that belongs on all anglers bucket list because there’s nothing else quite like them when you hook something. Not for me i found them odd and prefer normarks personally especially for trotting but i can fully appreciate what they are and what they done with them. Unreal rod technology that we are unlikely to ever see again

 

[Simon Archer]

I have a friend who worked in Exeter angling around the time Geoff Salisbury was the brains behind Normark rods. Geoff used to take him to matches all over the country. My friend has a Titan I believe, that Geoff gave him. A totally unbranded prototype that is unmistakably a Normark. I've seen it in action on the Trent, superb action, lovely to see. I've even asked/begged to buy it, but to his credit, my friend wont sell.

After reading all the posts on this topic, I'd be interested to actually know what rod my friend has. It could be an early Carbotec. The handle looks the same as a Normark, it has a screw down reel fitting. Not sure about the tip ring, as I haven't had a hold of it. The action of it with a upper Trent Dace on was it just bent from well down the second section and just absorbed the fight while my friend just held the rod still. Quite an eye opener. Should have paid a little more attention to it.

 

[Chris Jones]

Large stand off rings indeed - wonder how they compare in size to those fitted to modern float rods?

Much depends on what you consider to be modern. I have a few rods that are more modern than my (early) Mk2 Normarks that have butt rings as tall. Without checking, I know that my Browning Sphere Match, Rive R Waggler, Maver Nanolith and Daiwa Connoisseur G all have a very high stand off butt guide. I may have others, but I don't fancy checking for more. I think it's fairly safe to say that most modern float rods are fitted with shorter butt guides.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

Large stand off rings indeed - wonder how they compare in size to those fitted to modern float rods?

Like Chris I have afew rods that have what i consider to be as high a stand off as these tall fujis on the mk11 but the majority of mine are shorter. I don’t own any that are so short I couldn’t live with them.

You tend to find rods with shorter guides have more and closer together to compensate for the fact.

Daiwas made in Scotland are excellent for stand off. Browning sphere also excellent. My tfg tsi has an awesome stand off also. I’ve also got a custom built rod which has the tallest butt and second guide I own