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Noooooo

Ash Gould said:
If they have given up on rivers why are they constantly re-stocking the Great Ouse?

When have the EA said river anglers should give up and move onto stillwaters?

Or are you making assumptions based on your perceptions of EA policy?
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No, I'm quoting what a senior EA rep has said to martin Bowler.
As restocking the ouse, well there reasons for this to and it's not about anglers.
 
Nick Hay said:
Exactly Hatter, nail on the head, if you don't like barbel in stillwater,then don't fish for them, if you don't like carp in commercials then don't fish for them, I don't like carp in commercials but hey, the biggest carp in the country are in places like Linear,,,,,,,,,, is that not a commercial ?
If barbel go into these commercials then the inevitable will happen,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,bigger,bigger,bigger,,,,,,,,,,,, it will happen as it has with the carp.
But if you are unhappy with that then don't go there.:D
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It is about choices granted, but what choice does a species have to be stocked in a alien environment, none of course because man dictates, you know profit over everything else, that's the Mantra isn't it, that's why the weeklies are featuring Barbel from commercials, because they are in the hands of the tackle companies, that's why.

So moving on say years from now, how do you think these stocky Barbel will look like? Do you think evolution will not play a hand in conditioning the Barbel to it's new habitat, of course she will, the Barbel will be the next bloated Mirror or Common that is as far removed from the sleek Wild Carp.

There is only one choice,...choose MONEY!!
 
Ash Gould said:
Arent ponds wet then Neil?

You are anthromorphising and then taking that as a valid stance. It isn't. But its your opinion and thats all that counts in these enlightend times, so fairy muff.

I have not advocatted putting barbel in a stillwater, just said that it does no harm to do so. I may have liberated a few stillwater barbel in my lifetime and may hold the view that I prefer to see them in rivers. But it is only my preference.

A barbels natural habitat is water, same as with all fish.
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So are Salmon, maybe they could go in puddles to ,Landlocked salmon, now nice.
:eek:
 
Be'jesus, even more pseudoshyte!

An alien environment to a fish is when you hook it and pull it out into the air to have your picture taken. If your worried about putting barbel into alien environments you better not take them out of water!
 
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Neil Smart said:
Assuming a lot again?

However I reckon that to call someone that does not share your view on this matter as 'insane' is well perhaps a bit blinkered? :rolleyes:

Yes I am sure Steve will verify, do you need his help though?
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Your not CG are you???
I said my faith was restored in SPACE sane forum users, no one but you insinuated that.

I have no opinion on you Neil, why would you feel so strongly about me? have I slept with someone in your family? what is it, you seem to be upset over something. Are you going to the BS (appropriate) Meeting on Sunday? If so lets take this opportunity to chat about what it is you find so upsetting as to vent your anger towards people via a keyboard?

Go fishing or something Neil, chill out. I am sure there is someone out there that will find you significant.
 
Steve Collett said:
Your not CG are you???
I said my faith was restored in SPACE sane forum users, no one but you insinuated that.

I have no opinion on you Neil, why would you feel so strongly about me? have I slept with someone in your family? what is it, you seem to be upset over something. Are you going to the BS (appropriate) Meeting on Sunday? If so lets take this opportunity to chat about what it is you find so upsetting as to vent your anger towards people via a keyboard?

Go fishing or something Neil, chill out. I am sure there is someone out there that will find you significant.
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Much of a muchness really, however I feel that some Mods might well be lining up something so I don't wish to make things worse, certainly the insults seem to be more incoming than anything else.

No I am not going to the BS meeting, if you are perhaps you might do a straw poll on what the rest think and report back, and as far as sleeping with anyone in my family, I can't comment on that but it certainly wouldn't be an issue with me to fall out on.:)
 
Jeff Collins said:
Neil by design trout are supposed to be in flowing water, however there are a plethora of fisheries that you can chuck fluff for these fish. I've noticed that many barbel angler's jump on the moral bandwagon when it comes to stillwater barbel. Christ on a bike how long again is it till opening day!!!
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45 Days :rolleyes:

Trout are game fish, they don't count.:p

ps lived in Tetbury for a good few years, happy times.
 
Ash Gould said:
Be'jesus, even more pseudoshyte!

An alien environment to a fish is when you hook it and pull it out into the air to have your picture taken. If your worried about putting barbel into alien environments you better not take them out of water!
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Right, agreed, unhook 'em in the net...and forget the trophy shots they result in threads like this.
 
For me stillwater barbel they are not for me as i only fish rivers, but for those who fish them good luck , and for the gentleman in the anglers mail who was seriously ill, I'm pleased for him to land another barbel, as getting up and down banks would be no go, just remember we will all get old one day and if we wish to catch our favourite fish this may be our only option .
 
Paul Carter said:
For me stillwater barbel they are not for me as i only fish rivers, but for those who fish them good luck , and for the gentleman in the anglers mail who was seriously ill, I'm pleased for him to land another barbel, as getting up and down banks would be no go, just remember we will all get old one day and if we wish to catch our favourite fish this may be our only option .
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Great reply, Nice one Paul.
 
Gentlemen, we all have and are entitled to an opinion on this. But please do not let this descend into a name calling, back biting argument..................

I'm of the belief that Barbel have been stocked, or made their way into quite a few rivers which would be seen as 'not ideal Barbel habitat' and have grown very big........ I also think that in stocking them into rivers where they are not native we have in a small way played god...............
 
Paul Matthews said:
Gentlemen, we all have and are entitled to an opinion on this. But please do not let this descend into a name calling, back biting argument..................

I'm of the belief that Barbel have been stocked, or made their way into quite a few rivers which would be seen as 'not ideal Barbel habitat' and have grown very big........ I also think that in stocking them into rivers where they are not native we have in a small way played god...............
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Certainly the Middle Severn was the first benefactor, and if there is a God he certainly didn't have any objections, but rarely if at all do you find Barbel where the habit is not suitable, they soon move on when there are problems. A healthy Barbel population I believe is testament to a healthy river
 
My point is that on some rivers which we wouldn't consider 'ideal Barbel habitat' they do grow big................ I.E. some Southern Tidal stretches................ do they spawn successfully there !?!?! I VERY much have my doubts...........
I am in no way advocating their stocking in stillwaters, just commenting. The one Stillwater Barbel I had the misfortune to catch, in a match, was shedding eggs, not sure what that says !?!?
Regarding a healthy Barbel population meaning a healthy river, maybe, but they are not indigenous to a lot of rivers and their ultimate demise MAY be due in part to these factors........ Not THAT much research has been put into finding out just why they are in the decline they are.......... Otters are surely part of the equation, but not the whole story...........
 
I'm lucky enough to be able to call Steve Collett a mate.
The guy is a fishing genius.
I have the greatest respect for someone who can be catching silvers from a half frozen canal one week, then be bagging 4lb perch or huge Pike the next.

I've had the privilege of fishing with Steve a number of times and we chat most weeks...
I can tell you without doubt, if those stillwater barbel weren't in tip top heath and condition, Steve wouldn't be fishing for them....

Regarding my own feelings on Stillwater barbel is, I use to be against them, but these days, having accidentally caught a few, I have to say, they are just fish.

Yes if I was to go out with the intention of catching a barbel, it would be on a river, but I don't have any problem with others targeting them on still waters.

It does come across as a bit snobby and in my opinion, probably does barbel fishing no good...
At the end of the day, we are BARBEL FISHING 'WORLD'....

Steve
 
I do think we have to separate two matters here. Firstly, whether barbel can adapt and flourish in a still water environment and by flourish, I essentially mean breed. And secondly, whether people should fish for them in still waters. As regards the second matter-that's easy, it's just down to personal choice. Definitely not for me though and there is no need for me or anyone else for that matter, to justify a legitimate choice.

The first matter is one that troubles me but that's because I am ignorant of, and don't have access to, facts based evidence. My extremely limited knowledge on this point prevents me from arguing a case with any genuine authority and so I decided to just see what I could find written on the subject. I have only been able to spend 20 minutes doing so but came across the attached paper prepared back in 2009 and deals with barbel spawning/breeding habitats on the Wensum. I haven't read and absorbed it in detail, but I was struck by the description and classification of suitable habitats for spawning and then, juvenile nurseries. Interestingly, there is reference to an optimal habitat for juveniles as being one with no discernible flow. However, this is not the case for spawning itself where a degree of flow is required as well as areas of gravel.

It's just one paper, one study, in a particular period and on a particular river. It's not dealing directly with the matter in hand or addressing spawning in still waters. But it reminds me once again that we need quality data and the more we have, the better informed we become and I suspect the more powerful and united we are as anglers.

Debating the scientific data that does exist and identifying where gaps in our knowledge and understanding exist is ultimately far more productive than the debates we can often see on the forum which can quickly degenerate.

I would welcome the thoughts of folk on the attached paper and if anyone else has other relevant material worth throwing into the mix then by all means do. I don't have an ology exam so I am already starting from a rather weak position but am eager to learn.

That's the science anyway.

Emotionally, barbel and rivers: like rhubarb and custard, or Kelly Brook and me. They just belong together.

http://www.apemltd.co.uk/DocStore/FileLibrary/PDFs/Wensum in River Barbel Report 2009.pdf
 
I recently witnissed a bloke drag in a barbel at a commercial lake when he was carp fishing. Heard him say "it felt like a bream" but when it surfaced he was pleased to see it was a barbel.
Apart from unhooking mat all the "appropriate" handling,resting etc was absent.

I suspect fellas that do accidentally catch barbel in commercials are often not going to be aware of the little extra care needed before returning a barbel.
Spoke to the bailiffe , who was also unaware,,,, and he was happy try to educate others.
Not having a pop at anyone here but in the summer as GE says quite a few may well be lost as some anglers simply are not aware .

I love fishing rivers and thats where I enjoy catching my barbel.
Commercials are handy for a refreshing change of species during close season for me.

Caught a decent river double last season and regret not taking a picture (I never normally do ) ,not a trophy shot,but something to savour/relive the happy memory. I did weigh it though and it was much,much heavier than I had guessed. I am not "chasing numbers" but if I caught Steves fish in a pond I would defo have weighed it, wouldnt you ? looks a goodun.

Bet he did weigh it really :D
 
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Neil Smart said:
Certainly the Middle Severn was the first benefactor, and if there is a God he certainly didn't have any objections, but rarely if at all do you find Barbel where the habit is not suitable, they soon move on when there are problems. A healthy Barbel population I believe is testament to a healthy river
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Oddly, I've just got back from a meeting with representatives of the EA, who held the opposite view, ie Barbel should not have been stocked into the River Severn and that they are probably a factor behind the demise of other species in the middle river.
 
Sam Lloyd said:
Oddly, I've just got back from a meeting with representatives of the EA, who held the opposite view, ie Barbel should not have been stocked into the River Severn and that they are probably a factor behind the demise of other species in the middle river.
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That's a very good point and I agree that perhaps with the Barbel boom then other species especially chub did suffer, but there has been some redress and other species have made a comeback. My point was that the barbel will do well when the river itself is in fine fettle, not the bio diverse question.

But if as you say the EA representatives had that opinion then officially they might actually want to put something across, but of course on such matters they don't, for they are a Quango body and therefore have a vested interest in themselves and not the public they allegedly serve.

However if the EA officially are of this opinion it might explain the lack of action in the demise of Barbel stocks on the Rivers due to predation, coupled with some comments I have heard on here, that the future is ponds for us river anglers, actually this thread would seem to fit perfectly into the EA promoting pond life effort.
 
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