Mitchell Match 440A

[Mike Hodgkiss]

You have to admit though Neil, he does make his point very well . . Well done David , and Neil ,some excellent reposts . Great fun

 

[Neil Smart]

Using cane rods over carbon, is possibly sentiment over sensible, but I have to say its a pleasant sentiment to hold, split cane has a beauty all of its own.
Not very practical though on a river Severn with 8 foot on.

 

[Richard Parsons]

I think David's already inferred that he'll use a carbon rod if the circumstances demand it. I have a cane barbel rod that was custom made for me around eight years ago. On rivers other than, perhaps, the Trent, Severn and Thames (each with eight feet of extra water), it's my ideal tool.

A bit heavier than carbon, admittedly, but it's usually on two rests so that's no issue.

Some nice fish there, Clive.

 

[Clive Kenyon]

Neil, if you don't know about a subject then it might be best to refrain from making statements or opinions on it.

I have a 10 foot cane rod that will lift a weight of over 4lb off the ground. Others have used cane rods to land tunny of over 800lbs off the east coast and much larger fish elsewhere. Walker landed a 44lb carp on a 1.5lb tc cane rod and Yates landed a 51lb carp on a lighter model.

There are vintage and modern cane rods in use that are quite capable of handling barbel in any conditions that you or I would fish in.

 

[Neil Smart]

I am of an age when the only choice of rods were either split cane built cane, new fangled fibre glass, and for some tank ariels. So forgive me go having an opinion, but I can happily say that carbon rods are a huge improvement on the old gear. Not that for one minute do I not favour the look of split cane over carbon, I am also endeared to the Morris Minor, but don't feel the need to drive one.
Some things are when they reach a certain age have their own value as being collectable nostalgia.
I understand that.

 

[Neil Smart]

Derek. And theres the rub.

To expose it to regular feeder fishing will eventually ruin the bale arm return.

Fine for trotting and the dab bail arm is great after you get used to it. You'll still get the problem of line behind the triple leg clutch though.

.

That was the thing about it, the flippin dab bale arm had a mind of its own...But undeniably the reel was a thing of beauty.

 

[Neil Smart]

I think David's already inferred that he'll use a carbon rod if the circumstances demand it. I have a cane barbel rod that was custom made for me around eight years ago. On rivers other than, perhaps, the Trent, Severn and Thames (each with eight feet of extra water), it's my ideal tool.

A bit heavier than carbon, admittedly, but it's usually on two rests so that's no issue.

Some nice fish there, Clive.

Yep nicepix.

 

[Clive Kenyon]

I am of an age when the only choice of rods were either split cane built cane, new fangled fibre glass, and for some tank ariels. So forgive me go having an opinion, but I can happily say that carbon rods are a huge improvement on the old gear. Not that for one minute do I not favour the look of split cane over carbon, I am also endeared to the Morris Minor, but don't feel the need to drive one.
Some things are when they reach a certain age have their own value as being collectable nostalgia.
I understand that.

Neil, I appreciate that you may have some experience in using cane rods, but the comments that you made were nonsense. People get their information from the web these days and if somebody typed in "cane rod barbel" into the search engine and came across your post saying that:

David are you seriously trying to convince us that built cane rods are up to most Barbel situations? Personally I would never feel confident about using a wooden rod of so many decades old that would have deteriorated over the year's.
But credit to you for doing so, like your style, but I would always worry about snapping the thing.

David is obviously an experienced angler and has happily used cane rods for barbel, yet you are questioning that experience based on a presumption, not a fact. This unfounded presumption about cane rods deteriorating could put someone off buying and using a cane rod.

Same for saying that carbon rods are a huge improvement on the old gear. That is a personal opinion, not a fact. Some of us have the opposite view.

There is too much misinformation on the web. By all means ask if he has experienced any deterioration in old cane rods, but don't make statements that you cannot support.

 

[Terry Simner]

Some things are when they reach a certain age have their own value as being collectable nostalgia.

That's exactly how I feel about my wife. Thanks for that Neil


N.b.. Whilst having no intention, or wish, to get embroiled in this spat, I will add ... I've used cane, almost exclusively Hardys. They are a thing of beauty, but they are relatively heavy. Using on rests they're fine though, and a joy to use. But when choosing a second hand cane rod you have to check them for any 'set'. That is, they are apt to deteriorate by acquiring an unwanted bend in them, which can possibly necessitate a 're-ring'. If stored correctly this may not happen. This is my experience.

 

[Clive Kenyon]

And that is a very good point Terry. They are only likely to deteriorate if they have been neglected; stored in a damp place or leant up at an angle. That is why many of them came with rod bags that have a loop on for hanging the rod up vertical to dry. They don't deteriorate to become un-fishable all by themselves just through age.

The 'set' can often be addressed just by warming the cane up a little and applying pressure the other way. Some fibreglass rods also have a droop do to their relatively soft action, especially longer float rods with a lot of guides. My ABU Ferralite Mk.6 developed a droop after a couple of years from new. We tend to forget that as there aren't that many fibreglass rods about these days.

There is a growing interest in buying Hardy and Sharpes cane spinning rods and using them as stalking rods for carp and barbel. The relatively short lengths of between 7 foot and 9 foot combined with a through action makes them ideal for close range battles. The Hardy LRH 1 and 2 are favoured for this.

I recently cut down a 9' Forrest & Sons fly-rod and made a 9' light Avon out of it I kept the original handle, guides, button and ferrules then added a whole cane extension and lower handle to compensate for the reel seat and 6" of blank I removed to make the action more suited to an Avon than a fly rod. It is a lot more balanced now than when I used it for wet fly fishing on the Wharfe.

 

[Neil Smart]

The droop on fibre glass rods and cane was never forgotten by those that actually grew up with them. Neither was the springy nature of these rods that made them a challenge in striking ...which I guess is good enough reason that carbon rods are preferred over other materials.

 

[Richard Parsons]

And that is a very good point Terry. They are only likely to deteriorate if they have been neglected; stored in a damp place or leant up at an angle. That is why many of them came with rod bags that have a loop on for hanging the rod up vertical to dry. They don't deteriorate to become un-fishable all by themselves just through age.

The 'set' can often be addressed just by warming the cane up a little and applying pressure the other way. Some fibreglass rods also have a droop do to their relatively soft action, especially longer float rods with a lot of guides. My ABU Ferralite Mk.6 developed a droop after a couple of years from new. We tend to forget that as there aren't that many fibreglass rods about these days.

There is a growing interest in buying Hardy and Sharpes cane spinning rods and using them as stalking rods for carp and barbel. The relatively short lengths of between 7 foot and 9 foot combined with a through action makes them ideal for close range battles. The Hardy LRH 1 and 2 are favoured for this.

I recently cut down a 9' Forrest & Sons fly-rod and made a 9' light Avon out of it I kept the original handle, guides, button and ferrules then added a whole cane extension and lower handle to compensate for the reel seat and 6" of blank I removed to make the action more suited to an Avon than a fly rod. It is a lot more balanced now than when I used it for wet fly fishing on the Wharfe.

View attachment 14376

Nicely done, Clive. It looks like a superb rod!

 

[Clive Kenyon]

The droop on fibre glass rods and cane was never forgotten by those that actually grew up with them. Neither was the springy nature of these rods that made them a challenge in striking ...which I guess is good enough reason that carbon rods are preferred over other materials.

Each type of rod material has its own particular merits for some things and disadvantages for other things. There is no perfect rod or perfect rod material. In the last fifty years I haven't broken any cane rods, but over that time I have suffered breakages in many fibreglass and carbon rods.

Barbel fishing is not all about chucking 6 ounce feeders into the middle of the Severn or Trent with the river at 8 foot above normal. That has never been the way I fish for barbel and never will be. I suspect that David's barbel fishing is also more sedate which is why he can get enjoyment out of using cane rods as he described. That seems to be something you don't seem to be able to understand.

 

[Neil Smart]

Each type of rod material has its own particular merits for some things and disadvantages for other things. There is no perfect rod or perfect rod material. In the last fifty years I haven't broken any cane rods, but over that time I have suffered breakages in many fibreglass and carbon rods.

Barbel fishing is not all about chucking 6 ounce feeders into the middle of the Severn or Trent with the river at 8 foot above normal. That has never been the way I fish for barbel and never will be. I suspect that David's barbel fishing is also more sedate which is why he can get enjoyment out of using cane rods as he described. That seems to be something you don't seem to be able to understand.

Thank you for the heads up about finess, I actually fish light for the most part, and enjoy small rivers as much as anything else. You seem to have a rather single minded view to anything other than traditional tackle, and chastise me for being ignorant of its merits, I enjoy the old tackle I have collected and inherited over the year's, but prefer to use modern materials, as do the majority of other anglers.
I respect your love of cane etc but please don't assume on what is best for me and how or where I should fish, that me done on replying to you,, for the sake of the the goodwill on this forum if nothing else.

 

[David Craine]

I must admit Clive , I am not the most sedate angler, I fish with several other cane enthusiasts, and they “cringe” when they see what pain I put my cane rods through, I am not one for wearing out fish till they eventually give up, I prefer to get them to the net without them gasping for their last breath. At the same time I do not “Skull Drag “ them in, that would surely kill a cane rod before it damaged the fish.
I am quite picky about my cane rods ( as Mike Hodgkiss will testify ) I like them mid to tip action,at best, not a design that most cane rods are made to, thus, finding a cane rod to my liking is much more difficult than finding a comparable carbon rod. In fact I have “moved” quite a few cane rods on to anglers who either like “named” rods or like through action rods.I dont do “
“Named “rods, if a rod suits me, be its value a tenner or a couple of hundred quid , then that is all I want, A rod that bends through to the butt is not for me, ever, but if that suits you, I have no problem with that , stiffness of a rod is a very personal thing, thats why clutches were designed .

Reels for me have the same criteria.... I have read reams about backwinding versus using the clutch, I will say no more that quoting from two very respected Barbel Anglers ...Trefor West and Tony Miles in their book “ Quest for Barbel “ page 50.

In essence I treat Cane rods and vintage Mitchells / Ariel Wide drum centrepins no differently than I treat my Carbon rods and modern reels, given that I tailor the tackle to the situation.

But as I said before .... whatever floats your boat, so long as you dont think that going out and buying the top of the range gear will automatically give you an edge when targetting any fish, because imo it will not. There is no substitute for experience.


And I am still learning......... arent we all ?


David.

 

[Clive Kenyon]

Thank you for the heads up about finess, I actually fish light for the most part, and enjoy small rivers as much as anything else. You seem to have a rather single minded view to anything other than traditional tackle, and chastise me for being ignorant of its merits, I enjoy the old tackle I have collected and inherited over the year's, but prefer to use modern materials, as do the majority of other anglers.
I respect your love of cane etc but please don't assume on what is best for me and how or where I should fish, that me done on replying to you,, for the sake of the the goodwill on this forum if nothing else.

Neil, Everything that you have said about cane rods is utter nonsense. If you knew about the subject then you would not have assumed that cane rods deteriorated to the point of being no use for fishing. You wouldn't have chosen an extreme scenario to justify the unsuitability of cane rods, a scenario that would also render most modern barbel rods inadequate. And you wouldn't presume that all cane rods are too soft in action to be of any use when striking and picking up line. As David has said above, cane rods come in different actions and also many vintage rods designed for barbel and roach had lower sections made from stiffer materials such as whole cane or greenheart.

In short; all your criticism of cane rods comes not from knowledge or experience, but from your imagination. And now you pull the popularity card to try and justify your incorrect assumptions. The reason that fibreglass and carbon became so popular was not purely down to benefits. In some cases the new material wasn't as good as cane. But cane rods cost a lot more to make and subsequently they were priced out of the market, even for rods that would have been better suited made from cane.

I have rods made from carbon, fibreglass and cane and I choose whatever suits the situation best. I am not single-minded about cane. But, unlike you I am not ignorant of its benefits.

You started this debate by questioning David Craine's use of cane rods for barbel fishing. He uses them, you don't. But you still think that your opinion is worth airing. Abraham Lincoln has this covered.

 

[Clive Kenyon]

I must admit Clive , I am not the most sedate angler, I fish with several other cane enthusiasts, and they “cringe” when they see what pain I put my cane rods through, I am not one for wearing out fish till they eventually give up, I prefer to get them to the net without them gasping for their last breath. At the same time I do not “Skull Drag “ them in, that would surely kill a cane rod before it damaged the fish.
I am quite picky about my cane rods ( as Mike Hodgkiss will testify ) I like them mid to tip action,at best, not a design that most cane rods are made to, thus, finding a cane rod to my liking is much more difficult than finding a comparable carbon rod. In fact I have “moved” quite a few cane rods on to anglers who either like “named” rods or like through action rods.I dont do “
“Named “rods, if a rod suits me, be its value a tenner or a couple of hundred quid , then that is all I want, A rod that bends through to the butt is not for me, ever, but if that suits you, I have no problem with that , stiffness of a rod is a very personal thing, thats why clutches were designed .

Reels for me have the same criteria.... I have read reams about backwinding versus using the clutch, I will say no more that quoting from two very respected Barbel Anglers ...Trefor West and Tony Miles in their book “ Quest for Barbel “ page 50.

View attachment 14406

In essence I treat Cane rods and vintage Mitchells / Ariel Wide drum centrepins no differently than I treat my Carbon rods and modern reels, given that I tailor the tackle to the situation.

But as I said before .... whatever floats your boat, so long as you dont think that going out and buying the top of the range gear will automatically give you an edge when targetting any fish, because imo it will not. There is no substitute for experience.


And I am still learning......... arent we all ?


David.

Yes, David - some of us are still learning.

I am one of the 'through action' brigade. But, that suits the type of fishing that I prefer to do. I also keep the pressure on to keep them out of snags and find that this type of action suits me. I tend to fish at close range so any shock absorbtion from the line would be minimal.

I was actually referring to the 'Severn with 8 foot on' comment when I mentioned more sedate fishing. Not the use of the rod's action.

Regards clutches; I tend to use centrepins whenever possible. But I have two Okuma Trent 'pins that have superb disc drags that have saved my thumbs on many occasions.

 

[Mike Hodgkiss]

Dear me this thread is coming along a treat isn't it . Mitchell reels are a design classic , however the clutches are pretty iffy compared to modern gear but they can be modified . I use them on occasion as I simply like using them and that's it . As for cane rods , I own a number and use them regularly ,and have restored many hundreds of them . I started my fishing career with an 8ft steel tank aerial rod , unfortunately the top section fell off one day and sank without trace , I cried .... . I saved up my paper round money and bought a 2nd hand 11ft 3 piece split cane bottom rod , that caught me everything from Pike to minnows and took some serious abuse . I bust off the top section in a rod tip versus push bike front wheel incident , I cried again and took my shattered dream rod to Fred at the tackle shop who splinted it with a section of hollow fibreglass , I was back in business but the rod never felt the same again . I took on 2 paper rounds and bought a 12 ft fibreglass coarse rod , at the time this was space age to me , I had a rod that Benny Ashurst had , it was half the weight of the cane rod ,I couldn't fail ! That and many other glass rods came and went . I moved on to Carbon fibre , amazing stuff , very light but strong but I bust a few of them as well . Now I use rods made of all 3 materials , however I use cane rods whenever possible as I like using them the best , they give me more pleasure it's as simple as that . Let's hope life doesn't go round full circle and I go back to tank aerial rods and doing a paper round ! I do think that nostalgia plays a strong part in the resurgence of cane rod use , nothing wrong with that , they can be superbly effective rods but comparing Cane to Carbon is pointless each have their merits . Just enjoy your fishing chaps

 

[Terry Simner]

Great post @Mike Hodgkiss. I've enjoyed this thread, just such a pity that some feel the need to slip in snide cutting remarks and veiled put-downs. Each to their own eh. The one thing we all have in common is ... we all fish for pleasure. It's a pastime, so please, there's no need for nastiness. IMO.
P.S.. Mike, with your record of breaking rods, never entertain the idea that I might lend you one of my rods mate

 

[Joe Winstanley]

Dear me this thread is coming along a treat isn't it . Mitchell reels are a design classic , however the clutches are pretty iffy compared to modern gear but they can be modified . I use them on occasion as I simply like using them and that's it . As for cane rods , I own a number and use them regularly ,and have restored many hundreds of them . I started my fishing career with an 8ft steel tank aerial rod , unfortunately the top section fell off one day and sank without trace , I cried .... . I saved up my paper round money and bought a 2nd hand 11ft 3 piece split cane bottom rod , that caught me everything from Pike to minnows and took some serious abuse . I bust off the top section in a rod tip versus push bike front wheel incident , I cried again and took my shattered dream rod to Fred at the tackle shop who splinted it with a section of hollow fibreglass , I was back in business but the rod never felt the same again . I took on 2 paper rounds and bought a 12 ft fibreglass coarse rod , at the time this was space age to me , I had a rod that Benny Ashurst had , it was half the weight of the cane rod ,I couldn't fail ! That and many other glass rods came and went . I moved on to Carbon fibre , amazing stuff , very light but strong but I bust a few of them as well . Now I use rods made of all 3 materials , however I use cane rods whenever possible as I like using them the best , they give me more pleasure it's as simple as that . Let's hope life doesn't go round full circle and I go back to tank aerial rods and doing a paper round ! I do think that nostalgia plays a strong part in the resurgence of cane rod use , nothing wrong with that , they can be superbly effective rods but comparing Cane to Carbon is pointless each have their merits . Just enjoy your fishing chaps

I've read about the use of tank aerials as fishing rods, I'd love to get my hands on one just out of curiosity and to see if they were as bad as they sound!