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In reality can Barbel really know the difference ?

That's interesting I am sure as we do many do similar with the garden bird table. Fruit seems to be largely ignored by many species, but Mrs
Blackbird has acquired a taste for apples and grapes of late.Which I guess if you pesevere with a good food scource it will be eaten. but I remain sceptical about any creature seeking out health foods over what they like the taste of.
My dogs pick blackberries off the bush, I showed them just once, and they now seek out the fruit, very amusing.
I heard recently that humans can see red because the need to see ripened fruit in the past.:)
 
Then again Richard, not all is as you would expect :D


Total fat content of .....

Cheddar cheese = 34%

Peanuts = 49%

grapes = 0.4%

-----------------------------------------

Total protein content of....

Cheddar cheese = 24%

Peanuts = 28%

Grapes = 1%

-----------------------------------------

Total carb content of.....

Cheddar cheeses = 1.3%

Peanuts = 16%

Grapes = 18%

------------------------------------------

Take your pick. By choosing the nuts, they chose the highest fat content, highest protein content and medium carb content. Not bad judges of the best HNV available were they:D

Cheers, Dave.
 
Richard Longmuir said:
My dog eats Goose poo,is there an HNV content?
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Not sure Richard, I will nip out and scrape the soles of my boots and let you know :D

Actually, if they are anything like a lot of other animals, then their poo will have quite a high nutritional value, because their digestive system is not that efficient. For instance a cow has four stomachs, but still needs to regurgitate its food and re-chew it after it has passed through the first two...hence 'chewing the cud'. A rabbit eats it's own stools after passing them, because they still had a very high nutritional value after the first pass through...and so on. Others don't bother, they just eat shed loads and gain sufficient nutrients from that because of the shear volume. Of course that last means that those types are very much like half of the modern human population in that respect I suppose.

Sorry to be so pedantic...but sarcasm begets sarcasm, and all that. Which is quite apart from the fact that all that stuff above is absolutely true :D
 
I have absolutely no idea if this is accurate or true, but i heard that there were enough protein, fat etc in a couple of Brazil nuts to sustain a person for a day. My apologies for even posting this.

Stephen
 
Stephen Whyte said:
I have absolutely no idea if this is accurate or true, but i heard that there were enough protein, fat etc in a couple of Brazil nuts to sustain a person for a day. My apologies for even posting this.

Stephen
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Not so far fetched Stephen. I have a friend who said his nutty girlfriend's Brazilian has sustained his interest and kept him happy for months.

Cheers, Dave.
 
David Gauntlett said:
Then again Richard, not all is as you would expect :D


Total fat content of .....

Cheddar cheese = 34%

Peanuts = 49%

grapes = 0.4%

-----------------------------------------

Total protein content of....

Cheddar cheese = 24%

Peanuts = 28%

Grapes = 1%

-----------------------------------------

Total carb content of.....

Cheddar cheeses = 1.3%

Peanuts = 16%

Grapes = 18%

------------------------------------------

Take your pick. By choosing the nuts, they chose the highest fat content, highest protein content and medium carb content. Not bad judges of the best HNV available were they:D

Cheers, Dave.
Click to expand...



Interesting Dave. So mice potentially have HNV recognition and choose an HNV over a strong flavour IE the cheese
 
Richard Bruton said:
Interesting Dave. So mice potentially have HNV recognition and choose an HNV over a strong flavour IE the cheese
Click to expand...

No idea Richard, although the 'guesstimated' statistics you quote from that test show that certainly SOMETHING drove them to choose nuts almost every time they were tested, so surely that is at least one possible explanation. I hear what you are saying about the possibility that the reason may be that they recognize nuts more than the other items on offer. However, as these are most probably laboratory mice we talking about here, it is entirely possible that they have never seen a nut in their lives, any more than they have grapes or cheese.

All we can be certain of is that if living creatures do not eat the particular nutrients their metabolism requires....then they will die....so something must guide them, don't you think? We human beings have lost almost all of our natural powers, senses and instincts. Our sense of smell, hearing, sight, and lord knows what else, are but pale shadows of their former glory. We have used our comparatively huge brains to get us what we want, and allowed our other powers to atrophy...we no longer needed them, simples.

Because the efficiency of such things as sight and hearing are easy to measure, that means they are also easy to compare with those of baser animals too. As a result, we happily acknowledge the vast superiority of these senses that the other animals still possess. Why then is it so difficult for us to recognise that many of their other senses may also be equally superior to ours?

Logically then, it would surely be entirely possible for wild animals to be able to do things that we no longer can, just as many of them can see far better than us for instance. In that case, they may well be able to compare and recognise the higher nutritional content of any foods on offer. It's quite possible that we could do that too, before the superiority of our brains made that sense redundant.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers, Dave.
 
David Gauntlett said:
No idea Richard, although the 'guesstimated' statistics you quote from that test show that certainly SOMETHING drove them to choose nuts almost every time they were tested, so surely that is at least one possible explanation. I hear what you are saying about the possibility that the reason may be that they recognize nuts more than the other items on offer. However, as these are most probably laboratory mice we talking about here, it is entirely possible that they have never seen a nut in their lives, any more than they have grapes or cheese.

All we can be certain of is that if living creatures do not eat the particular nutrients their metabolism requires....then they will die....so something must guide them, don't you think? We human beings have lost almost all of our natural powers, senses and instincts. Our sense of smell, hearing, sight, and lord knows what else, are but pale shadows of their former glory. We have used our comparatively huge brains to get us what we want, and allowed our other powers to atrophy...we no longer needed them, simples.

Because the efficiency of such things as sight and hearing are easy to measure, that means they are also easy to compare with those of baser animals too. As a result, we happily acknowledge the vast superiority of these senses that the other animals still possess. Why then is it so difficult for us to recognise that many of their other senses may also be equally superior to ours?

Logically then, it would surely be entirely possible for wild animals to be able to do things that we no longer can, just as many of them can see far better than us for instance. In that case, they may well be able to compare and recognise the higher nutritional content of any foods on offer. It's quite possible that we could do that too, before the superiority of our brains made that sense redundant.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers, Dave.
Click to expand...

But we have adapted to add red to our colour range so to identify ripened fruit, and I am not particularly convinced w have 'lost' the senses that we originally used, just that they are dormant. The period in which man has evolved, is a relatively short period in term of adaption / evolution, witness that many on here and other places still demonstrate the need to 'hunt' whilst there is no reason to do so for those that have at least one Tesco in every community.

Your basic instincts are still there Dave, and I guess if you were to spend a marathon fishing session of say five years or so you would be so skilled at this fishing lark your status would be even more God like.:p
 
Neil Smart said:
But we have adapted to add red to our colour range so to identify ripened fruit, and I am not particularly convinced w have 'lost' the senses that we originally used, just that they are dormant. The period in which man has evolved, is a relatively short period in term of adaption / evolution, witness that many on here and other places still demonstrate the need to 'hunt' whilst there is no reason to do so for those that have at least one Tesco in every community.

Your basic instincts are still there Dave, and I guess if you were to spend a marathon fishing session of say five years or so you would be so skilled at this fishing lark your status would be even more God like.:p
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Hi Neil, may I point out that if you see adding red to the human colour range as an asset in identifying decent food, then don't EVER go mushrooming in your local fields mate, seriously...give it a miss.

Now, I admit that my basic instincts are probably laying dormant Neil, but that's only because the rest of me is laying dormant most of the time now anyway. Seriously though, instincts and senses...my dog could sense that my missus was on her way home long before she got there. Valuable as that ability may have been to me in my younger years, I know to my cost that I don't have it. I think most dog owners will recognise that bizarre ability their pet has...and like me, know full well that they themselves are lacking in that respect.

Could I put a question to you Neil? While I was doing all that fishing you suggest would improve my abilities no end, would I be able to see as well, or hear as well , or smell things as well...as the rabbit and the fox in the field behind me? I mean, I need to wear glasses to read your posts , so I know I can't see very well. I have NHS hearing aids in a draw somewhere because they are so uncomfortable I can't wear them, so I know I can't hear very well....and my missus assures me I don't smell too good. So, in those ways at least, both the rabbit and the fox are far superior to me. And the really sad thing is that even when I was in my prime, those two animals could do all those things, AND many more...anything from ten to one hundred times better than me.

I think you will find that in truth most of our senses are barely up to rudimentary standards now, compared to our ancestors. Sadly, no amount of fishing would 'bring them back' either, because the physical parts have changed to match our lowered requirements, as our brains improved. Ears and eyes of the size and design we now sport could never compete, or function as well, as those of baser animals. The teeth and nails we now possess wouldn't be much cop for fighting with other animals either, but I bet our distant ancestors managed that reasonably well. By the way, did you ever meet my mother in law?

as you say chap, some of our basic instincts are still there for sure. But I very much doubt all of them are, and I am certain that none of them are what the were when Homo sapiens first stood up to scratch his butt 200,000 years ago, and HIS ancestors would have stuff going on we never dreamed of. Did yo....oh, sorry, I already asked you about my mother in law didn't I?

Anyway, I am glad you see me as a Godlike figure Neil...,'cos guess who is going to be there manning the gate when your turn comes? So, behave yourself :D

Cheers, Dave.
 
Excellent stuff Dave, I am not dodging a reply I just need to try and find a courier for a rod I need to send, which will stretch any human's retarded instincts, see you later. :)
 
Dave Godlke Gauntlett. You sometimes just have to accept that you're knackered.....

The days of getting out when it's forecast heavy rain and gale force winds and any temps below 5 ( unless grayling or pike) have passed for me.

Do it while you can youngsters! And don't get too hooked up on the science. Get hooked on the environment around you.

Graham
 
Graham Elliott said:
Dave Godlke Gauntlett. You sometimes just have to accept that you're knackered.....

The days of getting out when it's forecast heavy rain and gale force winds and any temps below 5 ( unless grayling or pike) have passed for me.

Do it while you can youngsters! And don't get too hooked up on the science. Get hooked on the environment around you.

Graham
Click to expand...

I accepted that I was nearly knackered three or four years back Graham. By the time I collected that rod bag from your house, a little voice at the back of my mind was saying "Do you REALLY need new gear now, ya numpty?"...and know, a couple of years later, the answer to that is a resounding 'no' :D I now accept that I am almost completely up the kibosh :D

For me it's not so much the weather, more the fact that my back prevents me from carrying anything now. I spent a fortune on a new bedchair because it came highly recommended for people with back problems, in the hope it would allow me to get a few more overnighters in before I have to give up, and sure enough I sleep quite well on it (tried it out at home). The only problem is that the bag containing it+sleeping bag is so heavy, I can barely pick it up, let alone carry it round a lake :D Bl**dy infuriating and frustrating, to put it mildly :p Such is life in the fast lane mate.

Of course, if Niels peestaking label were true, I could use my 'God like powers' quite literally, as in 'Pick up thy bed and walk'. Sadly, try as I may, it doesn't work. However, there is some good news for fellow anglers...being as un-Godlike as it's possible to be....I can't walk on water either :D.

Your last sentence is spot on though Graham...as good a piece of advice as any budding young angler could ask for.

Take care fella, Dave :)
 
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