How hard is it.....

[Keith Speer]

No methods are "heaven sent" and all will work and or fail depending on application, I catch most of my fish on the float, not because it is better but simply because I enjoy fishing that way!
For me it is not about size or a specific method, it is all about enjoying what I do, Ray's methods work for him (and they have for me too) I suspect he uses them because that is the way he enjoys fishing, I would rather catch "A" fish on the float or free lining or rolling than five with a static ledgering method.

I have tried all the differing methods but stick mostly to the one I enjoy most, if I am successful then great, but I can also really enjoy a blank because I enjoy fishing for it's own sake.

Of all the comments on this thread the one about "watercraft" is probably the most pertinent, this is probably my most useful “skill†and it is the one thing that makes the most difference no matter what method you prefer.

The problem is that you cannot buy it and there is no easy way to accumulate it, the most successful anglers have it in spades and it is probably the no 1 reason for their success.

It is possible to point anglers in the right direction, but most “watercraft†will be learned on the river bank, there is no “quick fix†you just have to get out there and do it!!

Tight lines Chaps.

 

[Mark de Lancey]

Hi men ,

I played fottball to div 2 of my local league , div 1 found me out , there are alot of us div 2 players out there Colin .


Hatter

Your not wrong, they are all at my football club being paid a kings ransome!

 

[Simon Haggis]

Of all the comments on this thread the one about "watercraft" is probably the most pertinent, this is probably my most useful “skill†and it is the one thing that makes the most difference no matter what method you prefer.

The problem is that you cannot buy it and there is no easy way to accumulate it, the most successful anglers have it in spades and it is probably the no 1 reason for their success.

True. I think to that comment you can add in time available to sit on the bank learning and experience of how weather conditions affect the fishing as well.

I know when I fish somewhere seriously I visit at least 3 times a week and become tuned in to where the fish are and what's happening. Not sure if hard work counts as watercraft, but that's how you acquire it for sure.

 

[Ian Grant]

No methods are "heaven sent" and all will work and or fail depending on application, I catch most of my fish on the float, not because it is better but simply because I enjoy fishing that way!
For me it is not about size or a specific method, it is all about enjoying what I do, Ray's methods work for him (and they have for me too) I suspect he uses them because that is the way he enjoys fishing, I would rather catch "A" fish on the float or free lining or rolling than five with a static ledgering method.

I have tried all the differing methods but stick mostly to the one I enjoy most, if I am successful then great, but I can also really enjoy a blank because I enjoy fishing for it's own sake.

Of all the comments on this thread the one about "watercraft" is probably the most pertinent, this is probably my most useful “skill” and it is the one thing that makes the most difference no matter what method you prefer.

The problem is that you cannot buy it and there is no easy way to accumulate it, the most successful anglers have it in spades and it is probably the no 1 reason for their success.

It is possible to point anglers in the right direction, but most “watercraft” will be learned on the river bank, there is no “quick fix” you just have to get out there and do it!!

Tight lines Chaps.

Got to agree 100% with all of that Keith.
Watercraft is THE essential ingredient, and as you say there's no easy route to learning, it is time spent on the bank, i do believe though it comes easier to some than others, and those that enjoy a blank, as much as a session they catch on, are probably those who pick it up much easier, learning is always much easier when you are thoroughly enjoying yourself, and is where i have to agree with people on here, and elsewhere, who tell of people ( youngsters ?) wanting it now - right now ! believing there is some formula which will instantaneously transform their fishing, and there is a formula, but not instantaneous, and it is watercraft, and i also am of the opinion that all other subjects - bait, and it's application for certain situations, tackle, and end tackle and it's best uses, etc, etc, are all sub headings, as the pieces of the jigsaw fall into place, so an anglers fishing will improve, i don't think it's a jigsaw that you could ever complete though, the picture keeps changing and i love it

Ian.

 

[Haydn Clarke]

True. I think to that comment you can add in time available to sit on the bank learning and experience of how weather conditions affect the fishing as well.

I know when I fish somewhere seriously I visit at least 3 times a week and become tuned in to where the fish are and what's happening. Not sure if hard work counts as watercraft, but that's how you acquire it for sure.

Agreed, hence the semi-serious nature of my first posting on this thread: "Ninety percent of success is showing up" , which seems to have been misconstrued. I certainly didn't mean that if you turn up once then you'll catch a ninteen pounder.

I might be obvious, but essentially if you want to catch fish you need to get out there and do some fishing. You can fret all you like at home about this latest HNV or that particular Flourocarbon but hours on the bank are what catches fish. If you have half ounce of common then the rest should all start to fall into place in good time, once you're there and at it.

 

[Colin Gordon]

Agreed, hence the semi-serious nature of my first posting on this thread: "Ninety percent of success is showing up" , which seems to have been misconstrued. I certainly didn't mean that if you turn up once then you'll catch a ninteen pounder.

I might be obvious, but essentially if you want to catch fish you need to get out there and do some fishing. You can fret all you like at home about this latest HNV or that particular Flourocarbon but hours on the bank are what catches fish. If you have half ounce of common then the rest should all start to fall into place in good time, once you're there and at it.

Haydn, I am guilty of misinterpreting your earlier post.

That's the thing though, I do think most of us have common sense but many seem to becoming preoccupied with all the tackle industry sales spiel and are missing out as a result: There is no such thing as a bait utopia. A mediocre bait applied well, WILL out fish a good bait applied poorly, most of the time.
And no matter how effective your rig, bait, gizmos maybe, if there's no fish in your swim, you ain't gonna catch!

 

[Haydn Clarke]

Agree with you completely, Colin.

And to further expand on the theme:

The harder I practice, the luckier I get.

Gary player. I think.

 

[Martin Stevens]

Really enjoying this thread.

One of the biggest problems I encounter is acquiring watercraft. As others have said, time on the bank is what it takes to learn and acquire knowledge (unless you want to cheat and learn from one of the many guides around, such as Ray!). Maybe there lies the answer.

Unfortunately time is something I have very little of. Three kids and no transport of my own kind of limit the amount of time I can spend on the bank and how I fish. Even in a good season I am lucky if I can get on the bank 10 times.

As a result I fish venues where I can night fish so that I can maximise my time on the bank on the days I can get out. I also stick predominantly to one stretch and one method.

Because I'm mostly on my own with no car to go back to if things get cold and rough, I take a lot of gear and pick a spot to fish through in. As a result static methods are what I've stuck to for the most part.

Most of you on the thread would say I over complicate my rigs. I use a hair rigged boilie on a coated braid hook length for the most part. The weight is more than needed to hold bottom in most cases, but I like to know that my bait will stay exactly where I want it. I use fluoro mainline and a plasticine back lead. This method is a bit of a hangover from the days when the stretch I fish had more pressure, was paved with crays and had a small head of barbel. I'm still confident using this set-up so see no reason to change.

I will use maggot feeder during the day if conditions warrant it but I'd hazard a guess that many of you would still think my set-up is more complicated than needed. I use modern rig components because I know that I won't have to re-tackle to sort out tangles, so the extra time I take to set up will be saved during the day.

The Kennet is coloured to some extent all season so spotting fish can be hard and pretty much impossible in the deeper bits, so location is more about trying to find holding spots or patrol routes. Plumbing the stretch was a big help as most of the obvious spots get a lot of attention.

However since I first fished the stretch things have been changing. The crays are now few and far between. I used to stick to boilies because they lasted longer than anything else. I got used to waiting for the bumps on the tip to stop, that's when the big fish had moved in. I was lost at first last season when, after returning from a four year layoff, there was no cray activity at all.

This year to my great surprise and pleasure, the amount of weed on the stretch is much greater than I remember in years (the stretch is actually the one that Ray fished when rolling on Screaming Reels I believe). However some of the gulleys and holes I used to place baits in are now unfishable due to the weed. During the day it used to only be possible to get a bite by doing so. Now it's a case of deciding whether the fish are using the weed in the day to hide under and move about in, as they used to. My first attempt at drawing them out of a favourite spot would indicate that either the fish weren't there or they weren't using the weed just yet. All the barbel on my last trip came to boilies after dark. They came to me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's about doing what you feel confident in. Yes, location is important, but not always possible by sight. Yes watercraft is vital, but it takes time to learn and some of us are less fortunate in the time we get on the bank to improve it. So, we use methods which swing things in our favour. If that makes us lesser fishermen, then so be it. As long as I'm catching and enjoying myself, I don't care what others think.

Learning new methods to me, is more about improving myself as well as ensuring that in the future, should I have more time to fish, I'll be able to choose the method that is right for the day.

The last couple of seasons I have begun to do a bit more roving during the day while I am baiting and resting my night time swim. I only do this if the stretch is quiet enough and after checking last season that the fisheries manager was OK with this. As a result I have been giving the rolling meat a go and really enjoying it. It won't take over as my main method for some time, if ever, but hopefully once I am semi proficient in it, it will be another string to my bow.

 

[Simon King]

That's the thing though, I do think most of us have common sense but many seem to becoming preoccupied with all the tackle industry sales spiel and are missing out as a result: There is no such thing as a bait utopia. A mediocre bait applied well, WILL out fish a good bait applied poorly, most of the time.
And no matter how effective your rig, bait, gizmos maybe, if there's no fish in your swim, you ain't gonna catch!

The totality of it is, to accumulate the watercraft (to know where the fish are) and to apply the best bait and delivery method for the conditions.

There's not really such a thing as a "mediocre" bait, all bait is good, but what's best on the day?

Meat is a good bait, but not on heavily pressured stretches in gin-clear conditions. Maggots are a killer bait, but not the best in flood.

You most certainly can catch if there are no fish in your swim, especially if you know it's a "feeding highway" swim that the fish will cruise through say, after dark, from a different holding area?

No different from fishing carp/tench patrol routes on a lake, if you know the fish will come along, it's just how long you're able to wait.

Too many anglers rely on the same swim or two, use the same method and bait without change throughout the season(s!) and wonder why they don't catch much.
Or perhaps a couple of fish a season is a lot to them. Who knows?

 

[Steve Williams]

The totality of it is, to accumulate the watercraft (to know where the fish are) and to apply the best bait and delivery method for the conditions.

There's not really such a thing as a "mediocre" bait, all bait is good, but what's best on the day?

Meat is a good bait, but not on heavily pressured stretches in gin-clear conditions. Maggots are a killer bait, but not the best in flood.

You most certainly can catch if there are no fish in your swim, especially if you know it's a "feeding highway" swim that the fish will cruise through say, after dark, from a different holding area?

No different from fishing carp/tench patrol routes on a lake, if you know the fish will come along, it's just how long you're able to wait.

Too many anglers rely on the same swim or two, use the same method and bait without change throughout the season(s!) and wonder why they don't catch much.
Or perhaps a couple of fish a season is a lot to them. Who knows?

Not wanting to nit pick Simon, but some of my better fish have come from "heavily pressured stretches in gin-clear conditions, on large meat baits", which kind a sums up what its all about..... just go out and fish.
You can read all the books/ articles/ posts etc that you want, but non of it is any substitute for actually been on the bank and fishing.
Also, don't take anyone's word for anything...... try your own thing, over a reasonable period of time, in different conditions, and eventually, if you don't give up, all will become clear.......


Steve

 

[Simon King]

And I know good fish that have come to maggots in coloured water, Steve.

But I was generalising.

 

[Paul Monaghan]

Really enjoying this thread.

One of the biggest problems I encounter is acquiring watercraft. As others have said, time on the bank is what it takes to learn and acquire knowledge (unless you want to cheat and learn from one of the many guides around, such as Ray!). Maybe there lies the answer.

Unfortunately time is something I have very little of. Three kids and no transport of my own kind of limit the amount of time I can spend on the bank and how I fish. Even in a good season I am lucky if I can get on the bank 10 times.

As a result I fish venues where I can night fish so that I can maximise my time on the bank on the days I can get out. I also stick predominantly to one stretch and one method.

Because I'm mostly on my own with no car to go back to if things get cold and rough, I take a lot of gear and pick a spot to fish through in. As a result static methods are what I've stuck to for the most part.

Most of you on the thread would say I over complicate my rigs. I use a hair rigged boilie on a coated braid hook length for the most part. The weight is more than needed to hold bottom in most cases, but I like to know that my bait will stay exactly where I want it. I use fluoro mainline and a plasticine back lead. This method is a bit of a hangover from the days when the stretch I fish had more pressure, was paved with crays and had a small head of barbel. I'm still confident using this set-up so see no reason to change.

I will use maggot feeder during the day if conditions warrant it but I'd hazard a guess that many of you would still think my set-up is more complicated than needed. I use modern rig components because I know that I won't have to re-tackle to sort out tangles, so the extra time I take to set up will be saved during the day.

The Kennet is coloured to some extent all season so spotting fish can be hard and pretty much impossible in the deeper bits, so location is more about trying to find holding spots or patrol routes. Plumbing the stretch was a big help as most of the obvious spots get a lot of attention.

However since I first fished the stretch things have been changing. The crays are now few and far between. I used to stick to boilies because they lasted longer than anything else. I got used to waiting for the bumps on the tip to stop, that's when the big fish had moved in. I was lost at first last season when, after returning from a four year layoff, there was no cray activity at all.

This year to my great surprise and pleasure, the amount of weed on the stretch is much greater than I remember in years (the stretch is actually the one that Ray fished when rolling on Screaming Reels I believe). However some of the gulleys and holes I used to place baits in are now unfishable due to the weed. During the day it used to only be possible to get a bite by doing so. Now it's a case of deciding whether the fish are using the weed in the day to hide under and move about in, as they used to. My first attempt at drawing them out of a favourite spot would indicate that either the fish weren't there or they weren't using the weed just yet. All the barbel on my last trip came to boilies after dark. They came to me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's about doing what you feel confident in. Yes, location is important, but not always possible by sight. Yes watercraft is vital, but it takes time to learn and some of us are less fortunate in the time we get on the bank to improve it. So, we use methods which swing things in our favour. If that makes us lesser fishermen, then so be it. As long as I'm catching and enjoying myself, I don't care what others think.

Learning new methods to me, is more about improving myself as well as ensuring that in the future, should I have more time to fish, I'll be able to choose the method that is right for the day.

The last couple of seasons I have begun to do a bit more roving during the day while I am baiting and resting my night time swim. I only do this if the stretch is quiet enough and after checking last season that the fisheries manager was OK with this. As a result I have been giving the rolling meat a go and really enjoying it. It won't take over as my main method for some time, if ever, but hopefully once I am semi proficient in it, it will be another string to my bow.

Good post Martin, and i'm sure a good number of anglers can relate to your exploites on the Kennet. I can and have had more blanks than I can count, but enjoyed being out there and that's what counts. You're learning the river, yet most of the time you don't realise it.

I have three little ones myself, but it does get a little easier as they get older....honest, plus you need to be a little dis-honest on what you're doing .....just to grab a few hours on the bank when it matters.

 

[Colin Gordon]

The totality of it is, to accumulate the watercraft (to know where the fish are) and to apply the best bait and delivery method for the conditions.

There's not really such a thing as a "mediocre" bait, all bait is good, but what's best on the day?

Meat is a good bait, but not on heavily pressured stretches in gin-clear conditions. Maggots are a killer bait, but not the best in flood.

You most certainly can catch if there are no fish in your swim, especially if you know it's a "feeding highway" swim that the fish will cruise through say, after dark, from a different holding area?

No different from fishing carp/tench patrol routes on a lake, if you know the fish will come along, it's just how long you're able to wait.

Too many anglers rely on the same swim or two, use the same method and bait without change throughout the season(s!) and wonder why they don't catch much.
Or perhaps a couple of fish a season is a lot to them. Who knows?

Simon, the fact is no matter how great a rig you are using, or how wonderful a bait you are employing; you can not catch what isn't there, unless you're David Blaine or a liar.
Yes fish can migrate into your swim as you wrote: "especially if you know it's a "feeding highway" swim that the fish will cruise through."
But then in that instance, hopefully the angler will have worked out the fishes movements and has set 'his trap'

The message behind this thread really is; learn about your quarry, its location, feeding habits, behavioural patterns etc, as this is what will put more on the bank.
Yes reading about them helps but like Steve suggests, there is no substitute for being on the bank!

But like said by Martin in his excellent post, its not always possible. Essentially though angling is about enjoyment and if you're happy with your catch rates, all is good.
Obviously though some are not and this all about trying to help them. Don't get me wrong I'm anything but anti modern rigs etc but everything has an order and many could do with re-thinking that order.

 

[Martin Stevens]

I have three little ones myself, but it does get a little easier as they get older....honest, plus you need to be a little dis-honest on what you're doing .....just to grab a few hours on the bank when it matters.

Unfortunately my nearest barbel rivers involve a a journey of one and a half hours, including one bus and two trains. I won't even bother to bore you with how I would get to my stretch of the Kennet but the round trip would be in excess of four hours. I know others travel longer, but it kind of prevents those "I'll be working late tonight" sessions!

Luckily on top of my own theories and the lessons I have learned, there are many friendly anglers that I have met on the Wasing, who are only too happy to share what they have learned.

 

[Simon Haggis]

Unfortunately my nearest barbel rivers involve a a journey of one and a half hours, including one bus and two trains. I won't even bother to bore you with how I would get to my stretch of the Kennet but the round trip would be in excess of four hours. I know others travel longer, but it kind of prevents those "I'll be working late tonight" sessions!

I take my hat off to you Martin. I drive a fair distance to fish the river each time, often takes me 2 hrs each way, but the thought of doing the same on public transport - wow. You really earn each fish!

I take a very similar approach to you having to fish the nights after travelling. Pretty hard work and has led me to a static approach as you mentioned but rewarding none the less.

 

[Martin Stevens]

Apologies simon. It may have sounded as if I'm some sort of angling martyr, I'm not. That's the type of journey I'd have if I intended a "quick" after work session or a days roving.

Unfortunately when staying the night with no option of leaving experience has taught me that it's better to be safe than sorry. That's way too much gear to take on public transport. I'm fortunate that my dad is willing to help out. We both suffer from stress an he knows fishing is what keeps me sane.

My usual trip will involve a train from Waterloo to Basingstoke after work on a thursday. My dad then drops me whenever is convenient Friday. I then fish through to Saturday morning before the parential limousine turns up to whisk me off again. Pack away the gear, quick shower and then train back to London and bus home, usually for sometime around 2pm.

 

[Simon King]

Simon, the fact is no matter how great a rig you are using, or how wonderful a bait you are employing; you can not catch what isn't there, unless you're David Blaine or a liar.
Yes fish can migrate into your swim as you wrote: "especially if you know it's a "feeding highway" swim that the fish will cruise through."
But then in that instance, hopefully the angler will have worked out the fishes movements and has set 'his trap'

The message behind this thread really is; learn about your quarry, its location, feeding habits, behavioural patterns etc, as this is what will put more on the bank.
QUOTE]

I said all that in my first sentence, Colin.

 

[David Gauntlett]

I have a similar situation, though not so arduous as yours Martin...and for different reasons.

However, like you, my circumstances lead me to carry far too much gear for genuine roving to be a real option...a couple of moves at most is the best I usually manage. To add to that, I don't have the luxury of a stretch which is quiet enough to allow me to bait my intended night swim while fishing another...the going swims are usually gone by the evening if you try that

Another problem is that a number of times I have arrived early in order to sit quietly trickle feeding my chosen night swim for two to three hours before commencing fishing....only to blank utterly. It usually turns out that someone has absolutely 'filled it in' with pellets or whatever before my arrival )

Such is your lot on short, popular stretches of small rivers...they are definitely better fished on a roving basis, and the 'sit and wait, draw them to you' policy dictated by circumstances is fraught with dangers of the 'who was there before you' type

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Alex Gowney]

Apologies simon. It may have sounded as if I'm some sort of angling martyr, I'm not. That's the type of journey I'd have if I intended a "quick" after work session or a days roving.

Unfortunately when staying the night with no option of leaving experience has taught me that it's better to be safe than sorry. That's way too much gear to take on public transport. I'm fortunate that my dad is willing to help out. We both suffer from stress an he knows fishing is what keeps me sane.

My usual trip will involve a train from Waterloo to Basingstoke after work on a thursday. My dad then drops me whenever is convenient Friday. I then fish through to Saturday morning before the parential limousine turns up to whisk me off again. Pack away the gear, quick shower and then train back to London and bus home, usually for sometime around 2pm.

I don't know your circumstances Martin but wouldn't you be better off learning to drive and/or buying a car? Sounds a nightmare journey to go fishing and you deserve to catch for the effort in getting there alone

 

[Martin Stevens]

I spend all of my spare cash on fishing and the boy's football. God help me when my daughter starts dance classes or whatever!

One day mate. At the moment it's an expense I can do without.

Anyway, back on topic. I guess most of us know that there are anglers out there that want to catch without putting any work in. You know the ones. When they're not badgering other anglers on a stretch for the going bait, method and swims (and in some cases the exact spots in swims), they're lurking on the river reports pages without giving anything back.

Those type of anglers need reminding that you need to learn your watercraft and how the species acts on your stretch.

Yes many anglers are guilty of over complicating things, but many of us fish the way we do for a reason. I know that this thread was probably started to get people thinking and it has achieved that superbly. However it is also the kind of subject matter and opinion that can come across as preachy. There is too much of the traditionalist versus the modern angler on here recently and it really gets my back up. I predominantly use modern methods but my favourite method and one I rarely use due to the swims I fish is laying on or stret pegging. I have recently begun giving cane rod restoration a go and this winter hope to begin making my own floats. Things are rarely black or white.

Educate and thought provoke by all means but telling me how to fish and that my methods are wrong? That's just plain rude and reeks of snobbery. Once again that is not how I'm taking what's on this thread, but there really are some priggish idiots on this site.