hooking aid

[David Gauntlett]

Long hairs and short hairs = chub hook ups.

Medium length hairs = chub knocks.


If targeting big chub with hair rigged baits, go long and bolt rig it or very short and fish a quiver tip, simples.





IMO of course.

I knew you could get 'em by the short and curlies, didn't know you could grab 'em by the long hair too

Thanks for that Colin, will give it a try fella

In my river, of course

Cheers, Dave

 

[Colin Gordon]

Dave the thinking behind long hairs for chub (big uns) being they repeatedly pluck and pull the bait but don't feel the hook.
Eventually greed takes over and they take the bait deeper and can't eject it efficiently, BANG its hooked and they give real savage indications.

I tried it for a while but though my hook up rate was good, I felt that the fish had already gain an extra yard plus by the time I'd grabbed the rod.

I've reverted back to quiver tipping using a slow tapered tip that's as soft as the conditions allow, often using a 3/4 even 1/2oz on the nearside and 3/4 to 1oz on far bank (10-12 yards).
It feels better, have more control over the fish on its initial charge for snags and I do think many of the bites I hit just wouldn't materialise if resistance were felt.

If you try long rigging for chub, sit firmly on your hands and wait until your rod butt leaves the rest.



IMO of course.

 

[Mike Hodgkiss]

Silly question but, have you tried not fishing with the baitrunner?

I think Darren has it here . Basically this thread is about losing opportunities to hook barbel . The purpose of a baitrunner is by definition a device to allow the fish to run presumably without feeling resistance .I think the question]we need to ask are : Is this ability for the barbel to run freely with the bait really needed ? Does allowing the barbel to run increase the anglers chance of hooking the fish and decrease the chance of missing the fish when it drops the bait as it feels resistance ?

My view is that allowing a barbel to run with a bait using a baitrunner gains you nothing ,and is only useful as a safety device to avoid rods being pulled ,or when the angler is using the noise of the baitrunner or an electronic alarm device as the primary indicator of the bite

 

[Simon King]

I think Darren has it here . Basically this thread is about losing opportunities to hook barbel . The purpose of a baitrunner is by definition a device to allow the fish to run presumably without feeling resistance .I think the question]we need to ask are : Is this ability for the barbel to run freely with the bait really needed ? Does allowing the barbel to run increase the anglers chance of hooking the fish and decrease the chance of missing the fish when it drops the bait as it feels resistance ?

My view is that allowing a barbel to run with a bait using a baitrunner gains you nothing ,and is only useful as a safety device to avoid rods being pulled ,or when the angler is using the noise of the baitrunner or an electronic alarm device as the primary indicator of the bite

Mike, the baitrunner, if used properly , is to provide enough resistance to 1. Set the hook and 2. keep the rod in the rests. Use of an alarm is optional, but sensible.

Albert and Colin both spot on re chub and hairs imo.

Getting back to Dave's stillwater carp story, no, I don't believe the lead itself will necessarily set the hook, particularly in moving water. There's less inertia with the flow pulling against the line (plus debris build-up of course!) thus a 3 oz lead may only have the inertia of a 1 or 2oz lead when you take this into consideration. Backleading also helps in this regard.The fish will feel the hook, but it won't necessarily be stuck with it.

The simple test is to try it upstream. I've found that fish are less likely to be hooked unless you pull into them upstream and have lost several barbel this way. Not downstream when they're pulling against the full (or nearly full) curve of the rod.

One river I fished (and only one), the big barbel always seemed to go upstream on the take, which was most confusing.

Since paul is otherwise using a perfectly good set-up for barbel with baitrunners, I think it's just a case of one or two small adjustments to get it working for him.

Rather than completely changing over to 'tip & 'pin?

 

[Darren George]

Someone asked how folk fish without 'runners on.. There is no one size fits all approach, I prefer to tailor my setup to meet needs at the time. Sometimes I fish completely locked up, with strong butt gripping rests, through to getting the 'pin out (function not fashion!). And everything in between.

Sometimes the simple solution is best. If the situation dictates, simply lifting the rod isn't enough to set the hook. I found using running rigs, smaller baits, and casting across the flow meant missed bites when switching the 'runner on.

I think that's the long way of saying I agree with Simon!

 

[Paul Boyle]

Guess ill have to go my own way on this and try tightening the baitrunner up,and getting the lead or feeder right for the flow of the water,hence letting the barbal / chub hook itself.Sometimes its best just to try things out on your own
Thanks for the replys

Paul ps ..it could aways be line bites ??or barbal picking up the feeder ?

 

[Neil Smart]

Very useful information on the subject which will help me no end I reckon.

One tip I was given on the Wye a few years back, by some experienced local anglers, was to counteract the problem with hordes of Chub robbing the bait before the Barbel could get to it, was to score the pellet with a knife, and use a bait band. Set the baitrunner, and ignore all the chub knocks until the runner screams of.

It worked well and cut down on those 'air' shots. Mind you the Wye is a river apart, and I never had the same success on other rivers.

 

[Albert Watkinson]

in passing i use a 12ft free spirit specialist1/5tc for all chub and barbel.fishing the dane in cheshire .last season i had among others a trio of 5lb plus chub and having fished the river for58yrs these are specimens for the river.each one nearly dragged the rod in so i have no need to use the quivers that i bought with the rod.my motto is {if it aint broke dont fix it].it is the bait and presentation that matters.i stopped striking at plucks yonks ago.if the reel is set up right there is no need for a baitrunner.
albert

 

[Mike Hodgkiss]

Re the need for a baitrunner I think you are spot on Albert . I honestly can't see that using them gains you anything when fishing for barbel other than as a safety feature to stop rods going in ,or used in conjunction with an electronic bite alarm which needs the line to be moving to work .

 

[Simon King]

Re the need for a baitrunner I think you are spot on Albert . I honestly can't see that using them gains you anything when fishing for barbel other than as a safety feature to stop rods going in ,or used in conjunction with an electronic bite alarm which needs the line to be moving to work .

Mike, Albert obviously enjoys his fishing the way he does it and I assume you do, too.

Far be it for me to tell you that you should change your methods and tools because technology has upgraded and improved those tools.

You may not understand the mechanics of how a baitrunner has been designed to be used, but that doesn't mean that they aren't recognised as a useful tool for a particular job with a certain type of angling method.

A reel is still a reel and a clutch is still a clutch. The baitrunner happens to have two variable clutches.

The 'pin, in play, has one.

This thread was about an angler looking for help with his chosen tools.

Use whatever suits your style, but don't denigrate what you don't know about please.

 

[Lewis Anderson]

Sometimes its best just to try things out on your own
Thanks for the replys

this is so true!!!!!!

Unless you find out for yourself, you will never have the confidence in a rig or a setup or bait etc....

 

[Graham Elliott]

OK, just to add to the debate.

Most times when a fish moves away it is already hooked. Certainly when its a screaming run.

I never use the baitrunner when fishing, saying that most of my sessions are fairly shortish under 8 hours and I actually get my enjoyment by watching the rod tip and working out what happening: I appreciate that on very long sessions this might be demanding.

1/ If fish are present

2/ What probable species of fish

3/ What any missed bites that I get are indicating IF I am not hooking up and what changes might I make.

4/ Rarely need 3/ as if a fish picks up my bait, the hook point is already inside it's mouth and any movement will ***** the fish and lead to a "bolt effect".


Always makes me laugh when an angler using a baitrunner AND allows a fish 10-20 secs of free movement, is surprised when the lead/feeder it is dragging around gets in a position to unhook the fish.

Contrary to earlier views, upstreaming is often a case of every bites a coconut in my experience. Even more so when the rivers in flood. What happens is that a bite dislodges the weight/feeder and this "strikes" the hook home.

Graham

 

[Robin Bowes]

Mike, Albert obviously enjoys his fishing the way he does it and I assume you do, too.

Far be it for me to tell you that you should change your methods and tools because technology has upgraded and improved those tools.

You may not understand the mechanics of how a baitrunner has been designed to be used, but that doesn't mean that they aren't recognised as a useful tool for a particular job with a certain type of angling method.

A reel is still a reel and a clutch is still a clutch. The baitrunner happens to have two variable clutches.

The 'pin, in play, has one.

This thread was about an angler looking for help with his chosen tools.

Use whatever suits your style, but don't denigrate what you don't know about please.

Simon,

Mike is perfectly aware of "the mechanics of how a baitrunner has been designed to be used". However, I question whether you do.

Earlier in this thread, you said:

It's important to set the baitrunner tight enough so that the line pays out "grudgingly" only when the rod bends round to point at the fish.

and

A "softly set baitrunner" is of no practical use.

Surely that's the function of a clutch, and the baitrunnner is actually designed to let a fish take line with minimal resistance? In fact, that's not a question, it's a statement of fact.

You also said :

This thread was about an angler looking for help with his chosen tools.

No, it wasn't - it is about an angler who is having trouble hooking barbel. My first suggestion in such a case would be to go back to basics - forget the fancy rigs, baitrunner, etc. Use a simple running rig, with no baitrunner (so, effectively a bolt rig), & see how you get on.

There is a depressing tendency on here to over-complicate barbel fishing. It's really not necessary - they're not hard to catch if you can find them.

R.

 

[Simon King]

Hi all



Came anyone help me out im having runs on the baitrunner but when i strike its a little pull and then nowt on.

Thanks

Paul

Robin, I assume it's the word "baitrunner" that's giving you problems?

If the guy's set up his stall with one, then it's reasonable to tell him how to use it. First principles.........if you're using a baitrunner and you set the "resistance" properly, you don't need to "strike".

You seem to be deliberately misunderstanding the application of the "baitrunner" clutch and what it's used for in this context e.g. river barbel fishing; against stillwater carp/tench fishing etc. as well as their being a normal "fighting clutch".

If you set it for "minimal resistance" as Paul appears to be doing, you are not likely to be hooking fish. Your "statement of fact" aint so, I'm afraid.

The "function of the clutch" as you have it, is exactly as it is on a normal fixed spool. You pre-set it to give line during the fight after you've picked up the rod and clicked off the baitrunner clutch.

The two are pre-set for entirely different jobs. One to hook (and pay out some line), one to fight. The only time I'd use a baitrunner set for "minimal resistance" is possibly in predator fishing. It's a good way to get birds nests if you're not careful.

Try reading through my advice again. You don't seem to have "got it"?
There are no "fancy rigs" involved, just a hair, a lead and a lead-clip.

You may not like the fact that this set-up, when used as I've described it, is an extremely "killing" method of catching barbel. I've been using it very successfully (and so have many others) for a good few years now and, with the rare upstream case that I mentioned on a particular river, I don't lose fish. Once they bite, they're as good as in the net.

Meantime, I can roll my cigarettes, brew up some fresh coffee, answer natures call discreetly, watch the wildlife etc without being hunched over the rod getting "quivertip" elbow and cross-eyes.

 

[Albert Watkinson]

when i need help from a baitrunner to hook barbel i will saw the rods up
albert

 

[Paul Boyle]

I think my problem was this..not using the baitrunner in the right way
I shall leave the baitrunner on but up the risistence and let the barbal hook itself,another thing i have been told is to sharpen my hooks this i have never done ,but i shall find the right tool for the job.
Im i right in saying leave the baitrunner on and let the fish run with the bait or is the baitrunner only used when your away from the rod ??
Paul

 

[Jon Frisby]

Im i right in saying leave the baitrunner on and let the fish run with the bait or is the baitrunner only used when your away from the rod ??
Paul

Dont bother with the Baitrunner, when in your hand/easy reach, use the clutch of your reel. If your away from your rod, ie having a slash etc, but still within reach, by all means use your baitrunner. Any further away from your rods, retrieve your rigs.

IMO.....

 

[Alex Gowney]

when i need help from a baitrunner to hook barbel i will saw the rods up
albert

It's just another method of fishing Albert (very effective & accurrately described by Simon) and I imagine had internet forums existed when the fixed spool reel made it's debut there would have been similar clashes of opinion!

 

[Simon King]

I imagine had internet forums existed when the fixed spool reel made it's debut there would have been similar clashes of opinion!

Spot on.

Paul, once your rig's in position, click your baitruner on, leave it on and wait. Ignore all this stupid nonsense about "switch it on if you do this....turn it off if you do that.......wind in if you do this...........". Cobblers. It's a "Baitrunner"

If you're lucky enough to fish a river with loads of barbel (and chub) and get lots of bites a session, then a quivertip is what I'd use.
This set-up is (like the carping it was designed for) for longer sessions with fewer bites and aiming to improve catch to bite ratio.
Expecting 1 or 2 bites in 6 to 8 hours? Give me a bolt-rig and baitrunner every time.
If you're fishing near snags, you should fish "locked up" and always be on your rod. That's not baitrunner territory.
Ignore taps and pulls unless you think it might be a bream. Even a 2lb chub will give you a run like a barbel. Keep your rod-tip towards the water surface, not up in the sky like some do and use "Butt Grips" so your rod doesn't go flying in on the take!

You can use a running rig with this if you prefer, but don't backlead it, you want a direct and taut line to the lead to have the same hooking effect. I lengthen the hooklink when I do this, anything from 3 to 6 ft. Usually I only do this either in flood, or when fishing single maggot when I also use fluoro for the latter.
If you bolt-rig then backleading's a good idea, it'll keep detritus off the line and enable you to leave your bait in longer, also reducing the "spook" factor for the fish.

Use a hair that will keep the bait fairly tight to the hook and if you think your hook's getting blunt, tie a new rig. 6 inches of coated braid with the last inch peeled off. Job done.

Yes, it's "carp fishing" with scaled down gear, but it's an effective, proven method and that's all. You can do it on a 'pin with the ratchet on too, if you've a fancy.

 

[Mike Hodgkiss]

Mike, Albert obviously enjoys his fishing the way he does it and I assume you do, too.

Far be it for me to tell you that you should change your methods and tools because technology has upgraded and improved those tools.

You may not understand the mechanics of how a baitrunner has been designed to be used, but that doesn't mean that they aren't recognised as a useful tool for a particular job with a certain type of angling method.

A reel is still a reel and a clutch is still a clutch. The baitrunner happens to have two variable clutches.

The 'pin, in play, has one.

This thread was about an angler looking for help with his chosen tools.

Use whatever suits your style, but don't denigrate what you don't know about please.

Simon , I do know what a baitrunner is and how it works , I even own one ! . All I was trying ,and obviously failing to get across was that I don't think the function of the baitrunner has any impact on improving barbel hook ups . I use mine for pike and eel deadbait fishing when I want the fish to pick up the bait and not feel resistance . The tip in this thread seems to be screw your baitrunner up tight to give little or no line and you will be OK and hook your barbel , by doing this you don't need the baitrunner facility which is to give line before striking / picking up the rod . Anyway we coulld go on forever about this , I'm of to polish me 300's ....