hooking aid

[Darren George]

Hi John (Frisby),
...baitrunner set too softly...
Cheers, Dave.

Hmm that's what I'm thinking. Why re-invent the hook when fiddling with a knob might have the desired result.

Keep It Simple..

 

[David Gauntlett]

I've speculated about this elsewhere. I wonder if using fairly thick flurocarbon hooklinks has pretty much the same effect. It certainly leaves the hook at an angle that braid or limp mono/fluro doesn't.

I think you are spot on Chris. The bent hook rig (and the later shrink tube extension version) were originaly formulated at a time when most carp anglers were using soft braid as a hook link, and either version certainly does cause the hook to turn much more successfully in that case.

Where the hoolink itself is relatively stiff, I think the advantage of the idea are less noticeable. Purely as a matter of interest, where the link is extremely stiff (as in bristle type mono intended for stiff rigs or chod rigs), the angle achieved where an inturned eye type hook is used is TOO agressive and blatant, and is counter productive.

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Jon Frisby]

Hmm that's what I'm thinking. Why re-invent the hook when fiddling with a knob might have the desired result.

Keep It Simple..

I dont use baitrunners at all for bid river work, i use a quick drag that is set full on, to stop fish entering snags. Some of the spurious bites i had nearly dragged the rod out its rest at times, only to lift into thin air.

Jon

 

[Darren George]

My thoughts were aimed at the other chap, the one that does use the baitrunner.

And I may be wrong, it was just a thought. But sometimes, the simple answers work..

 

[Jon Frisby]

No Probs Darren; i cant see the point in BTR's unless there is a time when you need to leave the rod. Back on thread now, i now regularly use some tubing above the hook to improve hook ups, not much, but it works.

Jon

 

[Albert Watkinson]

i use a knotless knot and the bait 5mm from the bend of the hook.i have never had the barbel run off with the bait.he will run off with the rod if not holding it
not trying to teach anybody just trying to help.using a no 10 i have never lost one on this rig..i stopped faffing about with rigs yrs ago.if the drag is slack he will run off with the bait.10lb line and boss him.catch chub as well on this hair.
albert

 

[David Gauntlett]

i use a knotless knot and the bait 5mm from the bend of the hook.i have never had the barbel run off with the bait.he will run off with the rod if not holding it
not trying to teach anybody just trying to help.using a no 10 i have never lost one on this rig..i stopped faffing about with rigs yrs ago.if the drag is slack he will run off with the bait.10lb line and boss him.catch chub as well on this hair.
albert

Hi Albert,

I am a tad confused about your "Run off with the bait" terminology mate...I assume it is a Cheshire term that us lot 'darn sarf' are not familiar with

It is just tha I can't see how a fish 'runs of with the rod' without at the same time running off with the bait....unless the fish up your way have started creaping out of the river while you weren't looking and nicking your rods...I suppose that would be about right if they were pike(ies)

Joking asside Albert, I assume it means a screaming run with nothing on the end when you strike?

That apart, I entirely agree with you mate. As I said initially, in my first post, I have yet to see the need for complicated rigs for barbel...your rig sounds pretty much the way I fish for them...simple and works well!

In fact that last sounds pretty much like me...except for the works well bit

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Paul Boyle]

Hi all
I set my baitrunner according to the flow of the water,in the case of last saturday ,i ajusted the tension to the current,meaning holding it in place instead of letting it move around to much.
my set up was very simple 10lbs main line -8mm bead -size 8 korda swivel-korda kwik link clip-12 to 16 inch hooklenth,hairigged size six drennan super specialist hook ,and tried different hair lenth from 1/2 in to 1 1/2 ,and on the 2 pellets super glued..on top of this i was using a 3 oz cage feeder on a korum feedabead ataching it to the main line.

hope that makes some sence !,i was fishing mid river about 25/30 feet out in the main current.

What happened was this ..baitrunner zips of some line i think it was about 2/3 feet,i strikeclosing the baitrinner and quickly ajusting the tension,i have a hold of the fish and the the line was going slack ,,fish gone .

Something isnt ballanced right ,but im sure the answear is in this thread,,,

thanks for all the replys by the way,,ill just have to keep going over this post a piece it together,,keep them coming

Thanks

Paul

 

[Chris Thomson]

So if you dont use a baitrunner then what? Let the handle spin, fish locked up , or touch ledger?

 

[Paul Boyle]

I do use the baitrunner

 

[Chris Thomson]

what about those that dont, just curious

 

[Simon King]

Hi all
I set my baitrunner according to the flow of the water,in the case of last saturday ,i ajusted the tension to the current,meaning holding it in place instead of letting it move around to much.
my set up was very simple 10lbs main line -8mm bead -size 8 korda swivel-korda kwik link clip-12 to 16 inch hooklenth,hairigged size six drennan super specialist hook ,and tried different hair lenth from 1/2 in to 1 1/2 ,and on the 2 pellets super glued..on top of this i was using a 3 oz cage feeder on a korum feedabead ataching it to the main line.

hope that makes some sence !,i was fishing mid river about 25/30 feet out in the main current.

What happened was this ..baitrunner zips of some line i think it was about 2/3 feet,i strikeclosing the baitrinner and quickly ajusting the tension,i have a hold of the fish and the the line was going slack ,,fish gone .

Something isnt ballanced right ,but im sure the answear is in this thread,,,

thanks for all the replys by the way,,ill just have to keep going over this post a piece it together,,keep them coming

Thanks

Paul

Tighten up more, don't strike, let the fish hook itself against the rod. Hair-rigs work better this way. Set your rod up at an angle to the bait, not pointing at it.

 

[David Gauntlett]

So if you dont use a baitrunner then what? Let the handle spin, fish locked up , or touch ledger?

I guess we would have to resort to what was done before baitrunners were invented...which, after all, was not that long ago

As you suggest, letting the handle spin is possible, and indeed was a well used method by bream fishers. However, with a fish as strong and fast moving as a barbel....I wouldn't .... However (before I get slapped, lol) that is a personal thing, and there are no doubt plenty who do use this method

Fishing locked up probably was/is the most used method where a baitrunner is not used, but you obviously need to be alert and on the rod at all times...not a method for those that like to nod off on a warm summers day, or for folk who like to study nature as it occurs around them...those pastimes usually result in a rod learning how to swim

Touch ledgering is a great method, but is not for everyone. It allows you to feel a bite developing, and once mastered, I personally feel is a method that catches fish that do not even register bites on any other system. But again, that is just my opinion....others will doubtless have other ideas on that

However...whichever method one chooses to adopt when fishing baitrunner-less, it is probably advisable to go the whole 'retro' hog, and use only one rod. Unless you are very rich, of course....or have come up with 'a very cunning plan'

Cheers, Dave.

 

[David Gauntlett]

Tighten up more, don't strike, let the fish hook itself against the rod. Hair-rigs work better this way. Set your rod up at an angle to the bait, not pointing at it.

Hi Paul,

Having looked at you post describing your set-up and methods, then...what he said (Simon King, above)

Providing your hook is sharp, and your rig is tied in a sensible and accepted manner, and the fish have enough resistance to their run to hook themselves, then you should be fine. If you are using a semi fixed rig which is heavey enough to provide that resistance, then you are OK to use a reasonably softly set baitrunner. If you are using a very light and/or free running rig, then you need to provide that resistance by having a fairly tight baitrunner.

I am sure other guys will have other thoughts...but that is my take on your situation

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Simon King]

Hi Paul,

Having looked at you post describing your set-up and methods, then...what he said (Simon King, above)

Providing your hook is sharp, and your rig is tied in a sensible and accepted manner, and the fish have enough resistance to their run to hook themselves, then you should be fine. If you are using a semi fixed rig which is heavey enough to provide that resistance, then you are OK to use a reasonably softly set baitrunner. If you are using a very light and/or free running rig, then you need to provide that resistance by having a fairly tight baitrunner.

I am sure other guys will have other thoughts...but that is my take on your situation

Cheers, Dave.

Dave, the point is that the resistance of the rod, bending on the run, hooks the fish. The lead is there to provide the "pr1ck" to make the fish bolt and then hook itself.
It's important to set the baitrunner tight enough so that the line pays out "grudgingly" only when the rod bends round to point at the fish. The more angle you have the more effectively the hook is driven home on the run. It can work with a quivertip, but it's better with an avon.

I've also used this successfully with a Fightin Drag clutch on the normal shimanos, a touch more fiddly as you have to set the Drag at its lightest to Baitrunner setting and the main clutch to "playing" setting. But it does work.

A "softly set baitrunner" is of no practical use.

 

[David Gauntlett]

Dave, the point is that the resistance of the rod, bending on the run, hooks the fish. The lead is there to provide the "pr1ck" to make the fish bolt and then hook itself.
It's important to set the baitrunner tight enough so that the line pays out "grudgingly" only when the rod bends round to point at the fish. The more angle you have the more effectively the hook is driven home on the run. It can work with a quivertip, but it's better with an avon.

I've also used this successfully with a Fightin Drag clutch on the normal shimanos, a touch more fiddly as you have to set the Drag at its lightest to Baitrunner setting and the main clutch to "playing" setting. But it does work.

A "softly set baitrunner" is of no practical use.

Hi Simon,

I agree with you by and large on this, I was merely trying to make the point that there must be initial resistance present to produce the wrap-around that Paul was waiting for.

I must say however, that a heavey enough lead can and will set a hook on it's own, without the rod bending. I have caught carp on multiple rod set-ups where the rods are in a horizontal position, and pointing directly at the baited rig...while using slack lines AND free flowing baitrunners.

There is absolutely NO chance of the rod bending on the take with this arrangement, and yet even in a double hook-up situation, where one fish must be left while you deal with the other, the second fish will usually still be present when you eventually get round to dealing with it. Not ideal, but sods law says it will happen occasionaly with multi rod set-ups, and thanfully, on the odd occasions when it has happened to me, the fish came to no harm as a result.

Obviously however, those fish would not be kindly hanging around for me if they were NOT well and truly hooked...by the lead alone Anything of 3ozs or above is usually sufficient, with 4oz an almost dead cert...depending on the nature of the bottom....and providing the hook is SHARP

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Albert Watkinson]

hi david.point taken.i am reluctant to tell anybody to fish.we all have our own method.running off with the bait without hook ups could have been chub.as you know they can carry bait away in their lips and wang the tip round.my standard rig is 5mm from hook to bait and it does very well for me.forget about chub not taking the hair rig it is a myth,all the best
albert

 

[David Gauntlett]

hi david.point taken.i am reluctant to tell anybody to fish.we all have our own method.running off with the bait without hook ups could have been chub.as you know they can carry bait away in their lips and wang the tip round.my standard rig is 5mm from hook to bait and it does very well for me.forget about chub not taking the hair rig it is a myth,all the best
albert

Hi Albert,

I know exactly what you mean about not telling anyone how to fish mate. I sometimes find myself drawn into threads such as this one, because I see a guy who is obviously frustrated by a problem he has, but not receiving the help he needs. Next thing you know it has turned into something you really wish you had not got involved in Seriously though, it is only fishing at the end of the day. Debating is all part of the fun, so long as it stays at the fun level.

Interesting point you make about chub taking the hair and getting hooked Albert. I was fishing into the dark last week, using quite a long hair, when I was distracted by a noise behind me (dark + public footpath + thieving toe rags = nervous angler ). When I turned back, my rod was slowly edging it's way along the bank in a very 'post barbel bite' like manner. I grabbed the rod, and duly landed a rather large chub...not sure who was more surprised, him or me I had put it down to a one off, but if you are experiencing it in numbers mate, it's food for thought

My best regards to you Albert,

Dave.

 

[Darren George]

I experimented with long hairs a little while ago. Found I hooked more chub when casting to a downstream position. Don't recall noticing a change when upstreaming.

 

[Colin Gordon]

Long hairs and short hairs = chub hook ups.

Medium length hairs = chub knocks.


If targeting big chub with hair rigged baits, go long and bolt rig it or very short and fish a quiver tip, simples.





IMO of course.