• You need to be a registered member of Barbel Fishing World to post on these forums. Some of the forums are hidden from non-members. Please refer to the instructions on the ‘Register’ page for details of how to join the new incarnation of BFW...

High or low tips, and why?

Patrick Renn

Active Member
Hi all, this is my first thread so go easy! (i've tried a search but not found what im exactly looking for)

I've been Barbel angling for around 5 years now and have always been told to keep my rod tips high in the air to keep as much line out of the water as possible. Whilst i understand this is 'the norm', when do you feel its better to keep rod tips low down and what are the reasons for this?
I can imagine that in low, clear water tips low down would help hide the line, much the same as using a backlead but with the aid of the flow.

Any pro's and con's would be most appreciated and hopefully I will be able to use it in my own fishing.

Cheers,

Patrick
 
fist of all, hi patrick, you'll find everything you need on here.
as far as tip height i always find its easier to make your own mind up depending on the size of the river & the distance you fish at. if your on say a river like the severn & fishing well out, then yes you'll need your tip up, but you could fish the same peg another day down the side & need the tip low, dont forget a lot of fish get tight to the bank at time grubbing around, sometimes under your feet.
i fished under the tutorage of a well known angler on here on day & was well across the severn & he said to lower my rods because the pace dictactated it.
so really it depends on you.
all the best with it.
 
Last edited:
I'm a downer unless it's on fast water then I will go higher. The reason, I just don't like the idea of the angle that line leaves the weight to your rod tip when you have a high rod.

I have no problems of drag or the need to use heavy weights (rarely have to use more than an ounce) so see no advantage of a high rod unless it's on rapid water, but most of my fishing is close in stuff.
 
I'm a downer unless it's on fast water then I will go higher. The reason, I just don't like the idea of the angle that line leaves the weight to your rod tip when you have a high rod.

Same as, even on big rivers or pacey water i'll keep 'em as low as possible and use more lead if needed. The aim being to lay the last few feet of line above the lead on the bottom - or keep it as close to it as possible. Barbel that bump into mainlines often spook badly.
 
Each to his/her own, but I always fish tips down, often with a clip on backlead, just to keep the line out of the way, not only to avoid spooking fish, but can also be real godsend when a fish is hooked and using two rods!
peter
 
I also keep my tips down for the same reasons as Peter and Andrew. Also, high tips are a literal pain in the neck. I fish a a small river and usually close in. Those who fish big rivers like the Trent or Severn may well have other ideas. As with most variations of method, conditions on the day will dictate....
 
This is a real 'how long is a piece of string?' question.

When on the lower Severn I fish tips down in the summer because it can be like a lake and tips down means you don't have to worry about the boats.

In the winter when there are not so many boats and its pushing through its tips up and feet up under the brolley.

On the Teme or the Dove its normally tips down and sometimes even a backlead.
The middle Trent is almost always tips up to avoid the rocks which retain the banks and shred your line.

The difficult one is the Wye because no two swims are the same, within the space of 100 yards you can have rocks giving way to gravel followed by silty clay, it's then a case of whatever experience dictates.

On the soft Southern ditches its nearly always tips down unless you are fishing from cover over near bank rushes, or onions as the local boys call them.
 
I do quite a bit of float fishing for barbel and often there is faster paced water between me and the distant 'barbel run' that the float travels along. If I had the tip of my float rod down, the faster current would create a bow in the line and drag the float through the run too fast and off course - result no bites. So for float fishing I usually hold the rod tip fairly high (sometimes even at 11 o clock) so the line is suspended above the faster water between me and the float. Of course if I am fishing slower paced water or off the rod end this is not necessary.

Now I appreciate you are talking about ledgering but the same principle applies. Unless you are rolling the bait around you do not want the ledger dragged out of position. If your rod tip is low and there is faster water between you and the bait the current creates a bow in the line and the weight and bait is dragged around the swim. Solutions: use a heavier weight (not always the best approach), feed a big bow in the line (often works) back lead under the rod top (sometimes works) or lift the rod top so the line is suspended over (much of) the fast water which reduces the pressure on the lead so it stays put. So basically you want the lead to stay put so you adjust the rod tip height to accomplish this but that of course can vary swim to swim and day to day without giving yourself a pain in the neck. Some forms of ledgering actually utilise a high rod tip to keep the bait still and then feed say a foot of line with a lowered rod tip to 'trot' a ledgered bait in a straight line down the swim before raising the tip again to make it stop. In some near bank slow swims I might even point the rod downwards towards the water to reduce the angle on the line. Try to avoid line running downwards through the water to the lead which a high rod tip can create and can spook barbel that swim into the line. Use of back leads, extra long hooklinks etc can prevent this but is not always advisable (eg on rocky bottms such as the Wye). To complete the picture we should also mention upstream ledgering where you want the rod tip fairly high and flexed to show 'drop backs'.

In summary then, I try to set the tip at a comfortable height to watch without straining my neck but high enough to stop the lead being dragged round out of position.
 
Hi or Lo

Hi Patrick and a most warm welcome to the Forum where you will find much useful advice. However, if you need to ask a question as you have done then you are in need of some coaching in the art of barbel fishing. It might sound harsh advice but you need to consider the conditions on the day as there are no hard and fast answers. Incidentally, I'll be running some barbel teach-ins which you are most welcome to join. As many on this Forum can vouch, my sessions are excellent value for money and every participant receives a certificate at the end of the course. My courses include choosing tackle, baits, water craft, choosing swims, etc. I shall also have tackle which is available for purchase on the day. A part of a day's fishing is appreciating the wildlife and there is an abundance on my river. You'll have the privilege of fishing on my private stretch of river where you will see kingfishers, herons and if lucky, an otter might pop it's head up, if we don't make too much noise
 
Hello everyone and many thanks for your replies, there's certainly some food for thought there as many of you fish the same rivers as myself (The Severn and Warwickshire Avon).

Having always tended to fish my rods high up with good enough results over the years, it will be interesting to see how results compare when I lower them down. I can see that the main benefit is that the angle of the line towards the lead/feeder makes it a lot less obvious to the fish, which can only increase the chances of a take. I'm also looking forward to being able to fish without neck and backache!

Clearly this is learnt with experience and time on the bank, so this will no doubt be tested out next time out.
 
Hi Patrick and a most warm welcome to the Forum where you will find much useful advice. However, if you need to ask a question as you have done then you are in need of some coaching in the art of barbel fishing. It might sound harsh advice but you need to consider the conditions on the day as there are no hard and fast answers. Incidentally, I'll be running some barbel teach-ins which you are most welcome to join. As many on this Forum can vouch, my sessions are excellent value for money and every participant receives a certificate at the end of the course. My courses include choosing tackle, baits, water craft, choosing swims, etc. I shall also have tackle which is available for purchase on the day. A part of a day's fishing is appreciating the wildlife and there is an abundance on my river. You'll have the privilege of fishing on my private stretch of river where you will see kingfishers, herons and if lucky, an otter might pop it's head up, if we don't make too much noise

What are you like?????????
 
Hi Patrick and a most warm welcome to the Forum where you will find much useful advice. However, if you need to ask a question as you have done then you are in need of some coaching in the art of barbel fishing. It might sound harsh advice but you need to consider the conditions on the day as there are no hard and fast answers. Incidentally, I'll be running some barbel teach-ins which you are most welcome to join. As many on this Forum can vouch, my sessions are excellent value for money and every participant receives a certificate at the end of the course. My courses include choosing tackle, baits, water craft, choosing swims, etc. I shall also have tackle which is available for purchase on the day. A part of a day's fishing is appreciating the wildlife and there is an abundance on my river. You'll have the privilege of fishing on my private stretch of river where you will see kingfishers, herons and if lucky, an otter might pop it's head up, if we don't make too much noise

Sounds like a great day out, Where can we book and whats the cost?
 
Hi Patrick and a most warm welcome to the Forum where you will find much useful advice. However, if you need to ask a question as you have done then you are in need of some coaching in the art of barbel fishing. It might sound harsh advice but you need to consider the conditions on the day as there are no hard and fast answers. Incidentally, I'll be running some barbel teach-ins which you are most welcome to join. As many on this Forum can vouch, my sessions are excellent value for money and every participant receives a certificate at the end of the course. My courses include choosing tackle, baits, water craft, choosing swims, etc. I shall also have tackle which is available for purchase on the day. A part of a day's fishing is appreciating the wildlife and there is an abundance on my river. You'll have the privilege of fishing on my private stretch of river where you will see kingfishers, herons and if lucky, an otter might pop it's head up, if we don't make too much noise

Can anyone come to one of your teach in's?
 
Jim is an excellent host, he even gets the fish and chips in, bless him. Looking fwd to meeting up again.

Top gent
 
For me, Jim's sessions work best when he is joined by Sir Rannulph. They are a fabulous double act with great chemistry. I particularly like the way they use puppets and other props to help explain Jim's inspirational (but sometimes controversial) techniques. Attendees should keep in mind that there is a degree of artistic licence deployed to really hammer a point home. I can't believe that Jim would actually set about a fellow angler in that way with a telescopic bankstick. Well, not for something as innocuous as suggesting he is a bit of a thicky not using braid.
 
Jim:):):):):):):):)

To be honest the position of the rod tip should be determined by where you are fishing not by a set standard, if you are fishing at distance or across a strong flow then there is a positive advantage from holding the line as high from the water as possible.
If you are fishing the inside line or close to a snag then low is the way to go.
This offers some positive advantages; it keeps the line as low as possible, thus reducing the chance of fish brushing the line and spooking, it also means that you do not have to move the rod down very much when playing a fish.
Most fish lost to snags happens because you did not get the rod low enough and something got between you and the fighting fish, to reduce the chance of this happening a good idea is to bury the rod in the water, Barbel tend to be quite stupid, they will not try and climb up, or into roots or reeds, rather they try to get under something, banks are often under cut and lowering the rod as far as possible reduces the chance of line grating on some thing between you and where the Barbel gets to.

Looking back I have fought fish with my rod tip (and most of the bottom section) under water, more often in small rivers than I have with the rod held high.
I fish the Lea and other small rivers (being a soft southern softie) a great deal and when I am fishing the lead I am often fishing close or into snags so getting the rod into the water is a priority AND it has to be done quickly.
I have seen more fish lost from this single fault than any other!
The same goes for my float fishing, Barbel will often dive for the safety of an under cut bank or under reed beds, once they get there they almost don’t quite know what to do and more often than not you can then pull them out with steady pressure.

One thing I always do when I am fishing the lead is ensure that my rod or rods are downstream of me, no matter which way the flow is going (assuming I am fishing downstream of myself).

If the rods are positioned downstream of the angler, when it is a bit quiet and you are sitting comfortably and it is a bit late, some anglers (not me because I am ALWAYS on top of my game;)), but some anglers will doze or possibly on the rare occasion drop off to sleep (obviously not me, but some anglers:)), when this happens and you get a proper wrap around the angler can be woken as the butt hits him, if you have the rod(s) positioned to the upstream, when the rod goes round and the butt takes off, you are always chasing it, usually what happens is the rod goes round, bounces once in the rod rest and then disappears into the river.

I have seen this happen to anglers when they are awake too, a proper slammer will send the rod round and as that happens the butt goes away from you and always seems to be out of reach, scrabbling over the bank in the dark is not a good look!

To be fair I mostly fish one rod and I nearly always hold it and feel for bites, to do this properly I often point the rod at the weight and hold a small loop of line, I have lost count of the number of fish I have taken because I felt a slight movement or a positive pluck, on some of the rivers I fish I might get a slammer from a small fish but often the better fish are a little more cautious and a slight pluck is all you get.

Tight lines chaps, and keep that rod low!
 
A warm welcome Patrick!!!
I fish the Trent and i use 15ft rods almost vertical to keep as much line out of the water as possible i also try to set up on the top of the bank to keep even more line out of the water but i also fish a bow in the line to help with the self hooking mate.
Best Wishes!!
 
Hi Patrick and a most warm welcome to the Forum where you will find much useful advice. However, if you need to ask a question as you have done then you are in need of some coaching in the art of barbel fishing. It might sound harsh advice but you need to consider the conditions on the day as there are no hard and fast answers. Incidentally, I'll be running some barbel teach-ins which you are most welcome to join. As many on this Forum can vouch, my sessions are excellent value for money and every participant receives a certificate at the end of the course. My courses include choosing tackle, baits, water craft, choosing swims, etc. I shall also have tackle which is available for purchase on the day. A part of a day's fishing is appreciating the wildlife and there is an abundance on my river. You'll have the privilege of fishing on my private stretch of river where you will see kingfishers, herons and if lucky, an otter might pop it's head up, if we don't make too much noise

Jim

Any courses scheduled after mid march and before mid june ?
My diary is currently blank and could do with wetting a line to avoid ring rust please do let me know....
 
Back
Top