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Great Ouse Barbel Study

i have to wonder how some peoples mind work and that everything is a government plot against the common man. if there was`nt an EA we would all be moaning, but there is and we are still moaning, without research into the species how the hell do think we will all get a better understanding of the species and it`s habitat, its time some people got off there backsides and actually did something constructive that will be a benefit to us all.
over the last two seasons i have given the EA the known barbel catch returns from my section of the nene and this close season they collated it all against flow patterns weather etc and gave me back a superb report on the barbel in my section, next season we will be filling in a more indepth catch report with a log book given to us by the EA. this will eventually help anglers, angling clubs and the EA so dont moan the EA arn`t doing anything if your not prepared to help them.
 
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Copied from facebook with Karen's permission

OK barbel lovers, I need a favour! One of the comments the examiners made was that it would be beneficial to have angler catch data to go along side the EA catches to see what is happening with the barbel population. If any of you would be willing to e mail me your catch info (from as far back as possible), numbers, length/weight, hours fished, number of rods and river (Great Ouse info would be fab, but other rivers would also be useful) then that would really help. I have tried this before, but without success karen.twine@environment-agency.gov.uk

So....any Ouse anglers that wanted some input, here's your chance:)
 
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Stewart Harris said:
Copied from facebook with Karen's permission

OK barbel lovers, I need a favour! One of the comments the examiners made was that it would be beneficial to have angler catch data to go along side the EA catches to see what is happening with the barbel population. If any of you would be willing to e mail me your catch info (from as far back as possible), numbers, length/weight, hours fished, number of rods and river (Great Ouse info would be fab, but other rivers would also be useful) then that would really help. I have tried this before, but without success karen.twine@environment-agency.gov.uk

So....any Ouse anglers that wanted some input, here's your chance:)
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Cough :rolleyes:
 
Mark P Smith said:
i have to wonder how some peoples mind work and that everything is a government plot against the common man. if there was`nt an EA we would all be moaning, but there is and we are still moaning, without research into the species how the hell do think we will all get a better understanding of the species and it`s habitat, its time some people got off there backsides and actually did something constructive that will be a benefit to us all.
over the last two seasons i have given the EA the known barbel catch returns from my section of the nene and this close season they collated it all against flow patterns weather etc and gave me back a superb report on the barbel in my section, next season we will be filling in a more indepth catch report with a log book given to us by the EA. this will eventually help anglers, angling clubs and the EA so dont moan the EA arn`t doing anything if your not prepared to help them.
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Inspirational stuff Mark, can't think why anyone on here would not want to help, besides the feedback given can actually improve our sport too.

ADMIN Any chance of pinning this or similar with Karens e.mail address so the info can be at hand?
 
Neil Smart said:
Inspirational stuff Mark, can't think why anyone on here would not want to help, besides the feedback given can actually improve our sport too.

ADMIN Any chance of pinning this or similar with Karens e.mail address so the info can be at hand?
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Excellent idea Neil!


Regards

Hugo
 
Mark P Smith said:
i have to wonder how some peoples mind work and that everything is a government plot against the common man. if there was`nt an EA we would all be moaning, but there is and we are still moaning, without research into the species how the hell do think we will all get a better understanding of the species and it`s habitat, its time some people got off there backsides and actually did something constructive that will be a benefit to us all.
over the last two seasons i have given the EA the known barbel catch returns from my section of the nene and this close season they collated it all against flow patterns weather etc and gave me back a superb report on the barbel in my section, next season we will be filling in a more indepth catch report with a log book given to us by the EA. this will eventually help anglers, angling clubs and the EA so dont moan the EA arn`t doing anything if your not prepared to help them.
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Dont really see how this information alone is going to help..
Perhaps Mark if you also ask for a water quality testing kit aswell, then you will be beginning to gather more information to go along with Karens research.

Good luck with your research Mark..
 
When I was a lad, most rivers up north were absolutely filthy, many totally poluted and void of life. Some of the better fishing rivers had raw sewage outlets from which grey stinking liquid full of toilet paper flowed........... Factories and power stations belched out hot dirty water, but the fish thrived....... most coarse fish thrive in low quality, high phosphate water, the micro and macro organisms are present in great numbers.

The upper reaches of most rivers where the water is very, very clean, almost like tap water, you rarely find coarse fish, usually just trout, bullheads, sticklebacks, etc..... it is too clean for coarse species to thrive.

The best roach rivers still seem to be ones which are "dirtier".

I would not take any notice of EU directives, like all the others we are one of the only countries which gives them any airing at all, I would go swimming in an English river before a Dutch, Belgian, German or Polish river!!! Ours are many times cleaner........ I actually believe the problem to coarse fish is more associated with our rivers becoming too clean rather than not clean enough, they are becoming sterile, the micro and macro organisms cannot survive without higher protein levels.
 
Craig Wood said:
Dont really see how this information alone is going to help..
Perhaps Mark if you also ask for a water quality testing kit aswell, then you will be beginning to gather more information to go along with Karens research.

Good luck with your research Mark..
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I think you will find her research included water quality sampling, together with sampling of micro and macro life.........
 
Hi Ian,
I have read Karens report and yes are correct that she did do SOME water tests..BUT..there are certain chemicals in the water such as ESTROGEN that require a far more complex test and far more complex testing equipment which is not at all cheap or easy to obtain..
Something is obviously not right, but its going to be a up hill battle to find out what that is..

Best wishes to everyone for the coming season..
 
Ian Crook said:
When I was a lad, most rivers up north were absolutely filthy, many totally poluted and void of life. Some of the better fishing rivers had raw sewage outlets from which grey stinking liquid full of toilet paper flowed........... Factories and power stations belched out hot dirty water, but the fish thrived....... most coarse fish thrive in low quality, high phosphate water, the micro and macro organisms are present in great numbers.

The upper reaches of most rivers where the water is very, very clean, almost like tap water, you rarely find coarse fish, usually just trout, bullheads, sticklebacks, etc..... it is too clean for coarse species to thrive.

The best roach rivers still seem to be ones which are "dirtier".

I would not take any notice of EU directives, like all the others we are one of the only countries which gives them any airing at all, I would go swimming in an English river before a Dutch, Belgian, German or Polish river!!! Ours are many times cleaner........ I actually believe the problem to coarse fish is more associated with our rivers becoming too clean rather than not clean enough, they are becoming sterile, the micro and macro organisms cannot survive without higher protein levels.
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And this is what I have been saying for years ....Rivers such as the Bristol Avon are just too darn clean, used to catch quality Roach in the City of Bath, and other urban environments, 'cleaner' water does not equate to a more abundant eco system.
 
Ah great memories. I used to fish on steps, down from the weir in Bath in the summer. (78/85) THE method was hemp and tares, bags and bags of roach and chub.
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Have e-mailed Karen with last 40 years population indications /catch rates in my experience on Kennet/Loddon.

Posted on here many times about the decreasing population of both rivers over the past 6 years, despite others repeatedly saying all was rosy.

It wasn't. It isn't.............

And before I'm asked.............yes my concerns highlighted to the EA a number of times, mostly without response.


Reasons IMO twofold.

Crayfish.................population explosion and fish recruitment lag ties in timewise.....

As Craig says, and I agree a distinct possibility, and I have mentioned many times. Fish becoming asexual, as per the Loddon Roach study by the EA many years ago.

Please note, there isn't and never has been a need to create gravel beds in either river. They both have plenty of spawning areas. It's a very different scenario than a previously dredged river Stour, the initial concept.

Graham
 
It seems rather sad that the EA and the Angling Trust can not sit down together and discuss all that needs discussing, in an intelligent fashion.
 
Amen to that Graham. The point is that people keep banging on about how rivers used to fish better when they were dirtier...and there is no denying that in SOME cases, that APPEARED to be true. The problem is that the 'dirty' rivers they are on about where highly coloured because of good, old fashioned ORGANIC pollution. Nature designed fish and river systems to deal with organic pollution to a remarkable degree, because THAT was inevitably what it/they would be faced with on a daily basis from day one. Obviously, because there are billions more of us lot now than nature ever intended, there are times when even organic pollutants reach levels that breach the built in defences, but given a respite, they soon recover.

Now however, the pollutants facing our rivers are of a very different, insidious nature indeed. Chemicals of all sorts, some lethal in even small doses, some capable of altering the biological functions of humans and fish alike. There are medications that are good for us...but quite possibly not for fish. There are fungicides, pesticides, cattle dips, farm animal growth hormones, human hormone replacements....in short, a witches brew of toxic, dangerous chemicals , some of which even we are either unaware are there...or far from certain what damage long term continuous exposure to them might have (which is exactly what fish are exposed to 24/7)

I have no doubt whatsoever that most fish can live and thrive in water that looks to us pretty grungy...because it is natural, organic pollution....the stuff that nature designed them to deal with. I am equally certain that we could take the purest of chalk streams, drop a few drops of colourless pollutants that would not alter the look of the river one iota...but which would kill every living thing in it. So far, obviously those newer pollutants have not built up to a level where that level of effectiveness is seen. But give it time. In any case, I am damned sure that they are the cause of what we ARE seeing now. Many of them are in tiny proportions no doubt, far beyond any test kit in normal use to detect....but I would put my life on it that these newer, horribly difficult to detect and remove nasties, in league with some of the many older chemical pollutants that are present....are the cause of the slow but certain downhill spiral of our riverine stocks.

Cheers, Dave.
 
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