forget the rivers and watercraft, the future!

[Chris Jones]

a carp puddle near me that has a high stock load loses up to 100 carp a year due to?
it always happens every year.

Depends entirely on the place. The big local commercial always seems to lose loads, for whatever reason. Sadly this seems to be deemed acceptable by some of the more densely stocked and heavily fished waters.
A good friend owns his own small commercial and barely loses a fish. If he does lose any it's usually for one of two reasons, otters or mishandling by numptys.

 

[Chris Turnbull]

I think many of them have high loses..... what else would you expect in such overcrowded conditions?!!!

 

[Chris Jones]

I think many of them have high loses..... what else would you expect in such overcrowded conditions?!!!

Again, depends on the commercial. It's not really fair to tar them all with the same brush as not all commercials are too densely stocked.

 

[Chris Turnbull]

Again, depends on the commercial. It's not really fair to tar them all with the same brush as not all commercials are too densely stocked.

I wasn't tarring all commercials with the same brush, just the overstocked ones!

 

[James Anderson]

What counts as over stocked ones??

 

[Chris Turnbull]

Well to me overstocked is where the number of fish exceeds the natural ability of a water to support them and they are totally reliant on anglers baits to survive. Also if the stock density requires aerator's for their survival, that suggests there is a serious overstocking problem.

One has to make their own ethical decisions about what is right and wrong, but personally I'd happily give up fishing before resorting to fishing such places... so, yes, you can count me as being against them.

 

[James Anderson]

I assume all weedy lakes then are excluded from this disscussion???

 

[David Hall]

how many high stocked places are weedy, that would upset the matchmen.

 

[Paul Boote]

The Chairman on Saturday


Very popular with the totally inept golfer, I understand.

Some money mileage in something similar in fishing...? Just a thought.


As ever,

B.B.

 

[David Hall]

nice one paul, that sums things up nicely.
mind you paul, there is a benefit, more anglers at these places, less people on the rivers which suits me...lol

 

[Chris Turnbull]

I assume all weedy lakes then are excluded from this disscussion???

From what I've seen it is highly unlikely that any weed could grow in vastly overstocked carp puddles due to the turbidity of the water resulting from so many fish stirring it up.

 

[James Anderson]

Horseshoe???

 

[Chris Turnbull]

Hi James.

Horseshoe may be a commercially run fishery but it is hardly overstocked in comparison with the 'baggin up' match puddles being discussed here. In fishery management it is suggested that the ideal weight per acre is under 300lbs which will allow for decent growth rates. I don't know what the biomass of fish per acre is at Horseshoe, but as the fish (tench in particular) grow very big, I'd imagine it is well under 300lbs an acre. Apparently some of these baggin up puddles boast a stocking density of over 1000lbs per acre, which effectively prevents any semblance of a natural aquatic bio-diversity existing.

 

[James Anderson]

Any how, no matter how long this disscussion lasts we are not gonna be able to change things, these over stocked "puddles" are here and here to stay. The only thing we can do is to treat the fish fairly, i know when i fished Drayton reservoir, each fish was treated with respect, not bullied to the bank, placed on a large unhooking mat, and treated with klin-ik if it was needed, and each fish swam off hopefully none the worse. Its just a matter of education not only for the anglers but also the people who own the lakes, there are people out there who dont know about these things, and its kind of up to the more experienced anglers to help them out a bit. Also the owners of the lakes should enforce the rules for fish safety, ie rig checking, checking to see if they have unhooking mats, not leaving rods unattended, etc

 

[David Hall]

Hi James.

Horseshoe may be a commercially run fishery but it is hardly overstocked in comparison with the 'baggin up' match puddles being discussed here. In fishery management it is suggested that the ideal weight per acre is under 300lbs which will allow for decent growth rates. I don't know what the biomass of fish per acre is at Horseshoe, but as the fish (tench in particular) grow very big, I'd imagine it is well under 300lbs an acre. Apparently some of these baggin up puddles boast a stocking density of over 1000lbs per acre, which effectively prevents any semblance of a natural aquatic bio-diversity existing.

Horseshoe may be commercially( Involved in work that is intended for the mass market
QUOTE.. here to stay.
but it's not that, it's the high levels of stocking

 

[Chris Turnbull]

Well as far as I'm concerned the only thing to do is avoid such places.... and I do!

Mind you, nowadays, I prefer to avoid carp altogether!

 

[Chris Turnbull]

Dave, if you're still there, can you click on the website at the bottom of my post and see if it opens it, as on my computer it don't?

Cheers.

 

[Chris Jones]

there is a benefit, more anglers at these places, less people on the rivers which suits me...lol

Absolutely, I don't recall seeing a less than reasonably competant angler anywhere on a river where you have to walk more than fifty yards. Suits me fine too.

 

[Colin Gordon]

Hi James.

Horseshoe may be a commercially run fishery but it is hardly overstocked in comparison with the 'baggin up' match puddles being discussed here. In fishery management it is suggested that the ideal weight per acre is under 300lbs which will allow for decent growth rates. I don't know what the biomass of fish per acre is at Horseshoe, but as the fish (tench in particular) grow very big, I'd imagine it is well under 300lbs an acre. Apparently some of these baggin up puddles boast a stocking density of over 1000lbs per acre, which effectively prevents any semblance of a natural aquatic bio-diversity existing.

1000lbs per acre, thats a tad conservative an estimate for the puddle this article was based on; 7000lbs landed on second days match divided by larger of the two areas given (3 acres) = 2333lbs per acre = grossly over stocked.

What is needed is scientific research to be conducted as too what is a safe, welfare friendly stocking density.

As an example Boddington reservoir, BW say they stocked 50,000 carp now weighing an average of 6lb each, the lake is 68 acres, though at the top end of the stocking level scale, its possible for fish to find safe sanctuary and weed still grows but only where anglers tend not to fish most of the time.
Head to the dam pegs and you'll find huge numbers of scarred up battered and beaten fish.
Then head up towards the less popular swims you'll find good conditioned fish that are undamaged.

My point being despite a biomass of aproximately 4400lbs per acre, this lake functions without the necessity of aerators etc.
Thing is like I said before, facts are needed and these facts need interpreting then implementing into legislation because guide lines will inevitably be ignored by any greedy so and so that opts to do so.
If agriculture has to work with stocking density legislation for livestock then it seems perfectly reasonable that fishery's follow suit because else greedy owners will continue to over inflate stocking numbers unchecked.

Chris, you asked; "Dave, if you're still there, can you click on the website at the bottom of my post and see if it opens it, as on my computer it don't?"
If you were referring to the link to your site, then yes it works fine, some nice carp pics, any of chub?

 

[Chris Turnbull]

Thanks for checking my internet link, Colin. If you're referring to the prints I'll be adding several more fairly soon. As for chub prints, I'll probably paint one next year, but at the moment I have nothing I can scan that I haven't already sold.

Regarding the figures you quote, I find them all extremely alarming, especially as an increasing amount of fishing clubs now feel that they have to compete by creating baggin-up waters of their own.

On an even more worrying note I went to a lecture a few years ago by Prof Brian Moss on the impact of global warming on our ecology. He raised a point that while at the moment carp rarely breed in the UK, as temperatures rise it is likely that they will do so far more successfully and as a consequence impact on most other species of fish.... So here's a thought - while at the moment carp are being stocked into virtually every bit of water in the country, in 50 years time they could become such a pest that anglers will be throwing them up the bank in an effort to exterminate them!