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Fined

Quite an amusing thread, all in all. Amazing how we all spout our own potted ideas and assume that because those ideas sound logical to us, then they must be right...been there, done that, have the 'T' shirt with me blushing on it :p Having stood back for a while (actually went fishing today as well...but please don't ask :D) I have come back, only to read a whole lot more of the same old stuff we were all putting forward at the beginning. So, as I hate to change a fun trend.....:D

The arguments for the closed season are flawed, well meaning, but flawed, no doubt about it, and I for one have not really argued that point. There IS some value in them, if you wish to see it, but they are far from perfect....much like life in general I suppose. My point from the beginning has been that I prefer things as they are...and like everyone else, I am selfish enough to feel that something that makes me happy is something I would prefer was left alone to continue doing just that....I like being happy. I can't really defend that stance, even if I wanted to....but at this moment in time, the law agrees with me....which again makes me happy :p

The case put forward by those who would do away with the close season is highly amusing when examined....it is entirely based around their opinion that the arguments FOR the closed season are flawed or 'indefensible'. That they can come up with no real arguments at all to defend their stance doesn't seem to matter....disagreeing with the 'for' party is reason enough to have a rant it seems :D Fact is, all the arguments....for or against, are equally flawed, and if the arguments for the closed season ARE indefensible, then those against are equally so. They have no real substance, rather are just guesses, assumptions and clichés...ideas dreamt up to be presented as logic by those who see things that way. There is NO real value in assuming that what is seen to have happened on stillwaters will necessarily be repeated on rivers....even if we assume that all IS actually well on stillwaters. I don't know....I have NO proof either way. That fish will feed all year once they get used to being presented with easy meals all year is proof of nothing...other than the fact that fish are opportunists. Whether that unnatural situation will turn out to be good for THEM in the long term remains to be seen. I guess you could say that any claim without proof could be considered indefensible nonsense, if you see what I mean :D

Never mind, it is all a bit like the otter thing. It is something which will keep popping up on a regular basis, toys will be thrown out each time it does, and nothing will be solved. It might even be considered to be a 'futile waste of time' :D:D:D

Thing is, providing we keep it all nice and within bounds, it IS rather good fun :p

Cheers, Dave.
 
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I agree with Dave's summary. As far as a debate goes, it hasn't been the prettiest or the best articulated and because we haven't had access as far as I can tell to the results of a comprehensive study examining the impact or otherwise of a close season, then it's all personal opinion and perspective. Which I think is perfectly fine- it is a forum after all.

Amusingly, it has seemed to create two distinct groups based on those that posted. We have in one corner, the traditionalists. Weedy, feeble minded and slightly effeminate types who still live with their mums. They ask their mummies if they are going shopping that day because if not, they would like to borrow the basket on the front of their bikes to go fishing with. They will also reach for the lady size tissues when they see a grainy picture of a fishing stick with some squiggly writing down the side. And, they wear a lot of fawn coloured clothes. They also go to church.

On the other side, we have the X-Men. Amateur scientists and ecologists who live in carbon splendour. They make bread out of masonry dust, listen to AC/DC and Whitesnake (which they also drink) and they eat furniture, anything pointy or church related and, if there is enough meat on them, traditionalists.

But as Dave says, if its all in good and hearty spirit then all will be well.

As far as Richard Hamlyn's terrible comments about the mighty bearded one- well, I have no idea why he believes he doesn't exist. I have seen him a couple of times on Tight Lines catching barbel on the float and he has shared his wisdom directly on this forum.
 
David Parker said:
A generalisation will never work with everyone Adrian. I'm well aware of that.

But the fact you left the rat race behind (congratulations) doesn't mean the 'must have it now' ethos isn't creeping into every facet of life.

It isn't meant as a personal criticism of anyone. More an observation of the general drift in terms of values and mindset, and I include myself in that. We are all driven by very powerful forces outside of our control. Very few of us 'drop out' to build our log cabin on 'free land'!

I totally respect other people's points of view on this. But I do think, and always will, that a rest for fish (no lines in the water) is likely to be a very good thing for some part of the year. I appreciate that is difficult to enforce 100% but the fact that it is difficult doesn't mean it isn't worth striving for in my view.
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David,

I have really enjoyed reading your posts and I believe they pretty much encapsulate the “keep it†viewpoint. I also think you come across as a really nice bloke who would make splendid company on a day’s fishing. What you convey is the stance that there really is more to fishing than catching fish and that reducing our pastime to its bare bones in a logical and pragmatic way somehow devalues it.

It might surprise you that I broadly agree with many of your sentiments. I love to catch fish but I also value the observations and close encounters with the natural world during the periods when there is apparently nothing happening.

It might also surprise people that I really do not give a damn if the close season is abandoned or not. Fishing is an important part of my life but it is a great big world out there and I have no problems filling my time with other interests away from the water’s edge. These threads are liberally sprinkled with posts from people who have made fishing their “living the dream†life, and they come across as rather sad and introvert to me.

What I DO care about is angling itself and after many years of trying to do my bit for the pastime I have come to the conclusion that the biggest threat to angling is the anglers themselves and their precious ego’s and downright selfishness.

I am accused of arrogance and “fishing for bites†by the slow of thought on this site, but anyone with a lick of sense would be able to see that my comments have been a deliberate attempt to expose the rot at the core of angling which is our inability to pull together for the overall good of angling.

We currently have the Angling Trust supposedly looking after our interests who fail at the first hurdle by failing to get the Salmon and Trout Association on board. This one fact means they are doomed to failure as a representative of angling.

There are groups out there who really despise angling. The fact that they are incorrect and ill-informed about angling is of no importance. The fact that they are organised and all pull in the same direction regarding being 100% in favour of banning this “barbaric†sport is very important. Unless we do something pretty ground-breaking soon then we will lose angling as we now know it forever and history will record it as going the same way a bear / badger baiting and cock fighting.

I have deliberately used the expression “slow of thought†in this post so that I can get the usual indignant responses from the usual people; and by doing so they immediately find themselves wearing a cap that fits them oh so well.

So, are we capable of all pulling together….what do you think?
 
Howard Cooke said:
I agree with Dave's summary. As far as a debate goes, it hasn't been the prettiest or the best articulated and because we haven't had access as far as I can tell to the results of a comprehensive study examining the impact or otherwise of a close season, then it's all personal opinion and perspective. Which I think is perfectly fine- it is a forum after all.

Amusingly, it has seemed to create two distinct groups based on those that posted. We have in one corner, the traditionalists. Weedy, feeble minded and slightly effeminate types who still live with their mums. They ask their mummies if they are going shopping that day because if not, they would like to borrow the basket on the front of their bikes to go fishing with. They will also reach for the lady size tissues when they see a grainy picture of a fishing stick with some squiggly writing down the side. And, they wear a lot of fawn coloured clothes. They also go to church.



On the other side, we have the X-Men. Amateur scientists and ecologists who live in carbon splendour. They make bread out of masonry dust, listen to AC/DC and Whitesnake (which they also drink) and they eat furniture, anything pointy or church related and, if there is enough meat on them, traditionalists.

But as Dave says, if its all in good and hearty spirit then all will be well.

As far as Richard Hamlyn's terrible comments about the mighty bearded one- well, I have no idea why he believes he doesn't exist. I have seen him a couple of times on Tight Lines catching barbel on the float and he has shared his wisdom directly on this forum.
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Post of the year contender and it's only the 4th day in. :)
 
Richard Hamlyn said:
David,

I have really enjoyed reading your posts and I believe they pretty much encapsulate the “keep it†viewpoint. I also think you come across as a really nice bloke who would make splendid company on a day’s fishing. What you convey is the stance that there really is more to fishing than catching fish and that reducing our pastime to its bare bones in a logical and pragmatic way somehow devalues it.

It might surprise you that I broadly agree with many of your sentiments. I love to catch fish but I also value the observations and close encounters with the natural world during the periods when there is apparently nothing happening.

It might also surprise people that I really do not give a damn if the close season is abandoned or not. Fishing is an important part of my life but it is a great big world out there and I have no problems filling my time with other interests away from the water’s edge. These threads are liberally sprinkled with posts from people who have made fishing their “living the dream†life, and they come across as rather sad and introvert to me.

What I DO care about is angling itself and after many years of trying to do my bit for the pastime I have come to the conclusion that the biggest threat to angling is the anglers themselves and their precious ego’s and downright selfishness.

I am accused of arrogance and “fishing for bites†by the slow of thought on this site, but anyone with a lick of sense would be able to see that my comments have been a deliberate attempt to expose the rot at the core of angling which is our inability to pull together for the overall good of angling.

We currently have the Angling Trust supposedly looking after our interests who fail at the first hurdle by failing to get the Salmon and Trout Association on board. This one fact means they are doomed to failure as a representative of angling.

There are groups out there who really despise angling. The fact that they are incorrect and ill-informed about angling is of no importance. The fact that they are organised and all pull in the same direction regarding being 100% in favour of banning this “barbaric†sport is very important. Unless we do something pretty ground-breaking soon then we will lose angling as we now know it forever and history will record it as going the same way a bear / badger baiting and cock fighting.

I have deliberately used the expression “slow of thought†in this post so that I can get the usual indignant responses from the usual people; and by doing so they immediately find themselves wearing a cap that fits them oh so well.

So, are we capable of all pulling together….what do you think?
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FWIW I think you are a ****** :p
 
Richard

You said

"These threads are liberally sprinkled with posts from people who have made fishing their “living the dream” life, and they come across as rather sad and introvert to me."

Wonderful attempt to create what you apparently seek. But at last we seem to have found the new Messiah.:p

Added. Neil.......we Agree!!!!!!!!
 
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Richard Hamlyn said:
David,

I have really enjoyed reading your posts and I believe they pretty much encapsulate the “keep it†viewpoint. I also think you come across as a really nice bloke who would make splendid company on a day’s fishing. What you convey is the stance that there really is more to fishing than catching fish and that reducing our pastime to its bare bones in a logical and pragmatic way somehow devalues it.

It might surprise you that I broadly agree with many of your sentiments. I love to catch fish but I also value the observations and close encounters with the natural world during the periods when there is apparently nothing happening.

It might also surprise people that I really do not give a damn if the close season is abandoned or not. Fishing is an important part of my life but it is a great big world out there and I have no problems filling my time with other interests away from the water’s edge. These threads are liberally sprinkled with posts from people who have made fishing their “living the dream†life, and they come across as rather sad and introvert to me.

What I DO care about is angling itself and after many years of trying to do my bit for the pastime I have come to the conclusion that the biggest threat to angling is the anglers themselves and their precious ego’s and downright selfishness.

I am accused of arrogance and “fishing for bites†by the slow of thought on this site, but anyone with a lick of sense would be able to see that my comments have been a deliberate attempt to expose the rot at the core of angling which is our inability to pull together for the overall good of angling.

We currently have the Angling Trust supposedly looking after our interests who fail at the first hurdle by failing to get the Salmon and Trout Association on board. This one fact means they are doomed to failure as a representative of angling.

There are groups out there who really despise angling. The fact that they are incorrect and ill-informed about angling is of no importance. The fact that they are organised and all pull in the same direction regarding being 100% in favour of banning this “barbaric†sport is very important. Unless we do something pretty ground-breaking soon then we will lose angling as we now know it forever and history will record it as going the same way a bear / badger baiting and cock fighting.

I have deliberately used the expression “slow of thought†in this post so that I can get the usual indignant responses from the usual people; and by doing so they immediately find themselves wearing a cap that fits them oh so well.

So, are we capable of all pulling together….what do you think?
Click to expand...

I think anglers are about as similar a group in their make up as any other - we have a shared pastime and we like swapping stories by and large. But when it comes to preferred ways of angling, times to fish, baits to use, tackle worth buying ... Well it's a very broad church indeed, and all the better for it. It means we often appear to be divided more than we really are.

Can we pull together? When it matters most I think we can, yes. I'm an optimist in a messy world. I think it's good to note the mess, but only if you intend to do something about it. Otherwise we become grumpy old men. I think the problems we face lie more in the way the world is organised around us, rather than some deficiency in anglers. Not sure if that answers your question, but there it is.
 
There used to be another guy on here who was full of himself, would come out all guns firing, slating everyone in sight with arrogant put-downs and rambling nonsense he thought clever. Funnily enough, he also used to recant much of his previous stuff when the expected adoration from lesser souls failed to appear, and/or the ridicule from others got to him. Again, he would then resort to gathering what he considered the best of other posters points to put forth as his own to curry favour, and 'surprise' us all by announcing that actually, his stance was very similar to our own....that he had just been 'testing ' us with his previous comments. Sad really.

Cheers, Dave.
 
Hi Ade. yes must be very frustrating not fishing and my real and genuine sympathy for all those poor souls with flooded houses. Terrible

Kennets very fishable, anyone thats wants to travel here and fish, give me a call/e-mail and I will gladly assist in any way I can about tickets etc.

Good posts by both Davids IMO and that Rocca is gonna get a bad/badder name for agreeing. :rolleyes::D

Graham
 
Always a good topic for debate the closed season. I have no real preference, I used to be all for retaining it but from an admittedly traditionilist point of view. Waiting eagerly for the 16th June lost it's magic for me when closed seaons were abolished on stillwaters and canals as that's where I started the season anyway. I have also often thought how lovely the river looks at the end of March and how superb the chub fishing would be then with gradually warming days, more daylight and wild flowers blooming. All in all, I wouldn't cry too much were the closed season abolished. But if it's to be retained for spawning welfare issues then it may need altering to maybe mid April to early July as that's when most fish appear to spawn.
 
Richard Hamlyn said:
David,


Unless we do something pretty ground-breaking soon then we will lose angling as we now know it forever and history will record it as going the same way a bear / badger baiting and cock fighting.


No it won't, and the reason it won't is that the general public are not idiots and can distinguish between angling and the examples you give.

Anglers by and large are not militant, it's the way we are, we just like to get away and fish, by turning us into a gobby mouthed 'band of brothers' might skew the public's view of us.

Now, if you don't mind I have some homework to mark.
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Richard Hamlyn said:
David,

I have really enjoyed reading your posts and I believe they pretty much encapsulate the “keep it†viewpoint. I also think you come across as a really nice bloke who would make splendid company on a day’s fishing. What you convey is the stance that there really is more to fishing than catching fish and that reducing our pastime to its bare bones in a logical and pragmatic way somehow devalues it.

It might surprise you that I broadly agree with many of your sentiments. I love to catch fish but I also value the observations and close encounters with the natural world during the periods when there is apparently nothing happening.

It might also surprise people that I really do not give a damn if the close season is abandoned or not. Fishing is an important part of my life but it is a great big world out there and I have no problems filling my time with other interests away from the water’s edge. These threads are liberally sprinkled with posts from people who have made fishing their “living the dream†life, and they come across as rather sad and introvert to me.

What I DO care about is angling itself and after many years of trying to do my bit for the pastime I have come to the conclusion that the biggest threat to angling is the anglers themselves and their precious ego’s and downright selfishness.

I am accused of arrogance and “fishing for bites†by the slow of thought on this site, but anyone with a lick of sense would be able to see that my comments have been a deliberate attempt to expose the rot at the core of angling which is our inability to pull together for the overall good of angling.

We currently have the Angling Trust supposedly looking after our interests who fail at the first hurdle by failing to get the Salmon and Trout Association on board. This one fact means they are doomed to failure as a representative of angling.

There are groups out there who really despise angling. The fact that they are incorrect and ill-informed about angling is of no importance. The fact that they are organised and all pull in the same direction regarding being 100% in favour of banning this “barbaric†sport is very important. Unless we do something pretty ground-breaking soon then we will lose angling as we now know it forever and history will record it as going the same way a bear / badger baiting and cock fighting.

I have deliberately used the expression “slow of thought†in this post so that I can get the usual indignant responses from the usual people; and by doing so they immediately find themselves wearing a cap that fits them oh so well.

So, are we capable of all pulling together….what do you think?
Click to expand...

Richard, I would be interested to learn what specifically you have done over many years for this great pastime of ours- you said you have done your bit. I haven't really done anything, other than respect the rules, the law, the fish, the waterways, and the people I meet and all to the best of my ability.

And why on earth do you think we will "lose angling as we know it forever"? And "the rot and the core of angling"? What's the matter with you- did someone move your cheese? And I can assure you I am by no means slow of thought, despite going to a terribly rough comprehensive and never going to church. Your references to lesser anglers and all the other provocative statements you have made in your various threads are intended only to get a reaction and spread negativity and despondency and if there is rot, then it lives and breathes in your posts. And it is arrogant to assume that as a group we need you to guide and provoke us into meaningful thought and action.

BUT, if you shared with us all the details of your tireless and relentless campaigning to protect and improve this great sport of ours, then that make a difference and may make you slightly less of a ******.

Oh, and I have no ego when it comes to fishing and I am not selfish and despite trying really hard, the cap doesn't fit at all. And 90% of the anglers I meet on the bank have been very engaging, warm and happy to share ideas. They do draw the line when I try and run off with their special bait, but that's understandable.

Howard
 
"Rocca is gonna get a bad/badder name"........... I do hope so Graham. x


Alglers WILL pull together when there is a threat to angling, at the mo there really isn't, nor do I see one around the corner.
 
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