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Eels

I've only eaten Eel once (Sushi), and I can't see what the big deal is. It just tasted of very bland chicken...
 
I don't think at any point I have said I wasn't worried about what was going on?
Evidently Dave you are quite worried, quite worried indeed. I'm truly amazed at that
last outburst which to me bearing in mind this is only my "opinion" verges on racism.
I had thought a little more of you and your posts until this point, but now your integrity
seems to be lost. I can kind of see where your coming from but I don't think saying things like the yakuza running around with samurai swords has ANYTHING to do with eels, I think this was probably the point where the integrity was lost. Again this is only my opinion.
I also think your response is a little heated. I didn't mean to rile you just really couldn't
understand where you were coming from and now it becomes quite clear that a simple question about race and associated practices gets under your skin.
The confusion introduced to the situation has only arisen by your attempts to veil your personal feelings about asian peoples I suspect - hence lots of reference to tigers, whales and everything else under the sun that people instantly swoon for.
I can't even begin to go into the things WE as BRITISH people are responsible for the destruction of OUTSIDE of our own country. Pretty damn sure we shot a lot of tigers too, now don't get me wrong I'm not an advocating such things, but Christ you really have got "sand in your eyes" if you think that they are more accountable for the destruction of Anguilla anguilla than we are, and for anything else in the world. Read up on the collapse of the cod industry and subsequent seal clubbing that followed, pretty damn sure it was all about Canadians making money on seal pelts, not Japanese after animals *****es.
 
If the EA/Commercial eel killers are killing off the 'remaining' UK eels returning to the Sargasso Sea to breed, then the UK is participatiing in the extinction process!
 
Regardless of what we may or may not think about other races, we cannot (as a nation), take any kind of moral ground while we are licensing the netting and killing of a threatened species for profit. We should all be ashamed.
 
Andy Millichamp said:
Regardless of what we may or may not think about other races, we cannot (as a nation), take any kind of moral ground while we are licensing the netting and killing of a threatened species for profit. We should all be ashamed.
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Good comment . This debate should not be about individual countries behaviour ,or cultural/ ethical issues . We are ALL to blame . By all I mean all human kind. We humans exploit the earths resources wantenly often motivated by greed and self interest , we exploit and indeed kill our fellow man for similar reasons . Some would say this is the essence of human nature ,and has to be thus in order for us to survive . Going back to the Eel issue , I think the point that Ray Walton makes sums us humans up perfectly . We say the eel is an endangered species and must be protected ,then in the same breath give others licence [ sic] to kill the endangered species . Bonkers ...
 
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Andy Millichamp said:
Regardless of what we may or may not think about other races, we cannot (as a nation), take any kind of moral ground while we are licensing the netting and killing of a threatened species for profit. We should all be ashamed.
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Indeed Andy. that was the thinly veiled point I was making in my comment above. anglers that use pellets or boilies with fishmeal content (myself included) can't really take the moral high ground when the sandeel is suffering the same fate.
 
Hi Roman.
This is not a British Problem it may have a European side to it in the shape if a few greedy individuals all over Europe making a fast buck flogging the family silverware. My point however remains, the more recent high market demand for our eels comes from Asia I checked the EU Transportation Report and my figures are broadly correct, If you have evidence to contradict this please let me know so I can inform my MEP.
It’s all very well throwing the racist card at Dave, and I do wish he would start his own tiger nuts thread not pinch mine, I cannot see any glaring inaccuracies in his post. You stated in your opening post the A. Japonica demise was overstated as they farm their own, can you please supply some figures to back this statement or withdraw it?
 
Well well, this has got interesting.

I read and reread David G's post and couldn't find anything that I thought was racist. Not that I'm the expert on racism but I do tend to be a tad quick on the draw if I suspect others of being that way inclined.

I did think the post in question had some interesting observations on far eastern cultural norms, especially the references to their predilection for using animal parts in their medicines.

It is obvious to me though that if there is a market in the far east for European eels, then Joe Bloggs (or whoever) will jump on the chance to make some serious money, as opposed to making nowt by not netting eels in our rivers. Where supply and demand is concerned, many people have no qualms about such niceties as endangered species.

I guess the way forward is to put a complete ban on the removal of elvers, the removal of eel traps and massive fines or imprisonment, for those found to be flouting the law.

To have any chance of being effective though, this would have to be implemented across the whole of Europe and may possibly be too late.
 
All I know is that the owner of my local Chinese takeaway offered to buy every eel I could catch when he found out I was an angler, and he is third generation British and speaks with a broad black country accent. If it's that far ingrained into the culture then the powers that be have a real battle on their hands to try and change their minds.
 
I don’t buy into the too late argument as noted by Ian Mac way back some rivers, I think maybe he is referring to his local, are small enough to have escaped the attention of a serious commercial eel concern. Rivers like that will feed the revival if a total ban on eel fishing is brought in and enforced.
 
Im trying to take a back seat on this as some of you might know I fish for eel for the last few years. There is lots of reasons why the eel is in decline and most have been picked on this thread. The N.A.C pushing forward to try and the save the eel and educate people and anglers and clubs about how much the eel are in decline and we need to act now. We as anglers can do our bit by return all eels we catch. Not using eel sections as bait . What is nice Im on a barbel forum and we talking about eels
 
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I wrote the below post this morning, but didn't have time to finish it, much less post it, before I was dragged out kicking and squealing by SWMBO to help with the Christmas shopping :D Now I am back, I have sort of finished it, and will post it anyway, because despite several answering posts appearing since that time, it is still what I would have liked to have said. Obviously it is only my opinion, my take on the world situation as I see it. I find it sad that Roman has taken my previous post as an angry response...but it certainly was not intended to be aggressive....I rather think that it suited you to see it that way Roman...but...whatever. I shall try hard not to let that bother me :D:D

As for Kevins wish that I stop nicking his Tiger nuts (I think that's what he said :D) I have plenty of my own, thank you very much :p Seriously though Kevin, I believe the future of the European eel is inextricably mixed in with the survival of the worlds wildlife in general. I only widened the scope of the argument to try to illustrate the scale of the problem to Roman. Sadly, that has only resulted in him accusing me of racism. I can't be bothered to point out to him that his reply is the typical parrot like response I expected from him...he has been well and truly brainwashed by this bizarre, treading-on-egg-shells world we now live in. Ask a certain football referee what he thinks of this jump on the bandwagon style of insult :rolleyes:

And Kevin...I promise that is my last word on this. I shall now back off, apologising profusely for stealing your thread (I had my fingers crossed as I wrote those last six words :D)

Tim Lennon said:
what about the poor old sandeel?
being killed and crushed up by the millions, into pellets for the fish farming industry...
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Only the fish farming industry Tim? Fish meal is used in animal feed for virtually every animal farmed, plus it is used in human food products, even fertilizer....and we use it in our bait. But you are right...we are very, very guilty of enormous crimes against the well-being of our natural world. Which is why there are huge battles going on in every country in the world to try to put as much of that right as we possibly can. There are in fact big battles going on to reduce this fish meal industry because it is considered a hugely wasteful process. The point is, at least we are trying to reduce our consumption, trying to do something about this dreadful situation, and many of the other wrongs we have battered our world with. Actually, it has occurred to me (though I doubt very much that I am the first to see this :p) that there is one anomaly in our system that was bought about during our struggles to stop the over fishing in our seas that can surely make a huge difference to this fish meal emergency. Basically, the fishing industry quota system has proved to be a nonsense. It seems that 40% to 50% of all fish landed by our fleet are thrown back into the sea....dead! The system demands that once a boat has caught it's quota of any given species, then any further fish of that species accidentally caught whilst fishing for other species...must be thrown back, even though they are inevitably killed in the process. Surely those already dead fish could be used to manufacture fish meal? And surely some at least of the carcasses of the sharks killed purely for their fins could also be used for that? Obviously there are implications and complications, because nothing is that simple...but it could be made to work. I am sure that if the caring people who fight our battles for us manage to win some of their current campaigns...then it will be.

None of us are free of guilt, the only redeeming feature we have in the west is our recognition of the harm we have done (and are still doing)...and our attempts at putting that right. This ethical stance is nothing new, it has been going on for many, many years...but it is undeniable that it has only been reasonably effective for one or two generations. The west's efforts in enforcing whaling bans, big game hunting bans, rationing of commercial fish catches, setting up of animal reserves and national parks, banning trade in ivory, reducing the trade in animal furs, the reduction in the use of fossil fules, the drive for green energy...and a thousand and one other attempts at mitigating the damage we do...are beginning to have at least some effect.

However, despite these efforts, the survival of much of the worlds wildlife is now in the balance. It has reached the point where it may or may not survive (in any meaningful numbers at least) for our children and grandchildren to enjoy. Are we mending our ways in time to save some of these wonders of our world? I don't know. I have hope...but not too much confidence. What I DO know is that the worlds wildlife has absolutely zero chance of surviving the ravages of another wave of emerging nations, especially when those nations have no interest in learning from our mistakes. It may seem that we don't have a right to preach to anyone, if we think in terms of our own sins. However we do in fact have a right, no a duty...to do whatever we can to help what little is left to survive. We have to put aside any guilt at being accused of hypocrisy....whales and mountain gorillas etc. cant afford niceties like that on our part, in fact their lives depend upon our being a tad thick skinned in that regard :D

However, as I said to begin with....this is all just the way I see things. Make of it what you will :D

Carry on Kevin....I am done mate, as promised.

Cheers, Dave.
 
Martin Gregory said:
Interesting link here, just one of many if folk care to look

How Will China's Slowing Economy Impact Endangered Wildlife? :: ANNAMITICUS
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Despite my recent promise, I am just popping in to warn Roman that he should read Martins posts carefully...but take NO notice of the link on his last post. It is DREADFULLY racist and bound to upset his sensitive nature. I am not smiling at all as I type this :D ooops...that smile slipped out...sorry :eek:

Gone Kevin, honest....Teee heeee....what pun?....cough.

Cheers, Dave
 
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Eel must stay off the menu, scientists conclude

By Lewis Smith



December 04 2012 Lewis Smith




Glass eels in a tank growing into elvers



Eels should remain firmly off the menu amid fears “urgent action is needed†to reverse a severe decline, scientists have warned.

Advice published by the International Council for the Exploration of the Sea (ICES) dashes hopes that at least some eel supplies could be considered sustainable.

The development of the Sustainable Eel Standard had, the industry hoped, offered restaurants and consumers access to a sustainable supply of the fish.

However, ICES scientists have concluded that eel stocks are so precarious that none should be fished. They also urged that other causes of eel mortality, such as hydroelectric plants and pollution, should be kept to a minimum.

In its advice for 2013 ICES, which advises European governments on fish stocks, stated: “The status of eel remains critical and urgent action is needed.

“ICES reiterates its previous advice that all anthropogenic mortality (e.g. recreational and commercial fishing, hydropower, pollution) affecting production and escapement of eels should be reduced to as close to zero as possible until there is clear evidence that both recruitment and the adult stock are increasing.â€

In the absence of fresh data on eel stocks it was decided the advice would remain the same as last year. Fresh details on eel numbers could be released in the coming weeks as European Union member states report on what they have done to comply with recovery plans, though there are doubts that it will significantly change the overall picture.

Nevertheless, ICES is hopeful that new data and different methods of assessing eel numbers and trends will allow its assessment next year “to improveâ€.

European eels, which have proved impossible to breed successfully in captivity, are classified as critically endangered by the International Union for the Conservation of Nature (IUCN).

While adult numbers have declined, the primary concern is for glass eels, the juvenile eels reaching European shores from the Sargasso Sea. Glass eels have declined continuously since the 1950s and are estimated to be at 5 per cent of the numbers arriving from 1960 to 1979. Numbers in the North Sea are at 1 per cent of historical levels.

The causes of the decline are uncertain but thought to include pollution, the blockage of migratory routes by dams and other human constructions, and overfishing.

The Marine Conservation Society (MCS) considers the European eel to be a “fish to avoid†and classes it as a ‘5’, the worst score it gives in its rating system.

It regards the ‘standard’ created by the Sustainable Eel Group, an organisation that wants eel populations restored and is formed of conservationists, scientists and industry, as being “best practice†rather than a certification of sustainability.

One of the main problems blocking acceptance of the standard as a form of certification is that there is a lack of scientific evidence that it helps eel populations rise.

Under the SEG’s standard, about half of the glass eels that are caught and put into tanks to develop into elvers are released back into the wild further upstream.

The idea is that while perhaps just 10 per cent of glass eels will develop into elvers in the wild, the figure rises to 90 per cent among those put into tanks for three months.

There is, however, no direct evidence that the scheme actually works, and there is some evidence from studies of other fish that temporary captivity may make them more vulnerable to predators once put back in the wild.

Andrew Kerr, chairman of SEG, agreed that lack of evidence is a problem for the industry is a problem but he pointed out that several scientists who work for ICES have supported the ‘Standard’.

He said: “We can’t be doing harm and are very likely doing something positive for eel stocks. If you are using half for re-stocking and half for food you are making a net gain.
ki
 
Andrew Kerr, chairman of SEG, agreed that lack of evidence is a problem for the industry is a problem but he pointed out that several scientists who work for ICES have supported the ‘Standard’.

He said: “We can’t be doing harm and are very likely doing something positive for eel stocks. If you are using half for re-stocking and half for food you are making a net gain.

SEG obviously want to continue eating eels, despite the call for an outright ban on doing so.

That in itself raises questions for me about their real intentions.
 
SEG, Sustainable Eel Group, My guess is the clue is in the name, Sustainable, as in 'a crop', Just like any other natural recourse which a few people can make a huge proffit from with little regard for the future. If they can keep them on the edge of collapse without tipping them over it pushes the price up. Look at salmon, its gone from being so numerous it was a crop which was harvested for use as a fertiliser and Apprentice shipbuilders in the 1750's covenanted to be fed with it only twice a week.
Since the industrial revolution 100 years later the population of salmon has collapsed to a point where I'm not even sure if it's legal to take them but their rarity has pushed them up to luxury status with a corresponding price and profit for those who control the supply.
The eel is the eastern salmon with similar opportunities for the people who control that trade.
Whoever said money is the root of all evil was spot on.
 
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