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Cormorant Petition

Richard Hamlyn said:
Dave,

Looks like you and me started life in the same patch of gravel………………

When are we going to stop coming out with this “shoot ‘em all out of the skies†mentality because it really does harm our cause with the very people we should be making our allies. Just imagine the scene around your chosen water where a significant amount of anglers are all armed. It makes no difference if the armaments are shotguns, air guns, catapults or pea shooters because the end effect will be the same. It will start with a few responsible people taking a safe shot at a cormorant and maybe killing a few. Then other less responsible people, bored because their buzzer has not beeped for a month, will start taking shots at cormorants /swans /ducks / each other to relieve the boredom. Inevitably people are going to get hurt and the controlling body for the water has to show due diligence to their insurance company if they are not going to have their backside sued off in court. In short the fishery would not be able to operate.

Now if a few carp anglers end up with a ball bearing bouncing off their heads then it will not cost me too much loss of sleep. In fact it may be the mental jolt they need to stop camping / waiting and to start fishing / catching. However the press and the pro birdie lobby will howl their heads off and the gap will be ever wider between us. The pro birdie lobby are not bad people, I happen to be one of them as I love birds AND fishing. What many of the pro birdie lobby are is a group of people who are fairly knowledgeable on birds and the fluffy side of nature but totally ignorant about fish. If we stopped behaving like a group of ignorant villagers at the end of a Frankenstein film and instead embarked on the road of trying to educate these people then TOGETHER we could form a policy (that includes organised culling where necessary) that may just actually work.

Richard
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WHAT A LOAD OF TWADDLE...:D..

Who cares what various organisations or people think about Anglers anyway, they already think were mad and will never in a million years understand why we do what we do..In the mean time more and more fish are being lost to Cormorants whilst Anglers just argue between themselves, and say lets join forces with the RSPB..What a load of twaddle!!!..These Cormorants are coming over from Scandanavian regions so how on earth are you going to stop them without killing some?..Yes its not their fault the sea has been raped by greedy commercial fisherman but they are now raping our stillwaters which cannot substain for much longer their relentless attacks..
Shoot to kill if you have any sense with regards to these black plague, or you can just stand by and wonder what on earth were going to do..
So in the mean time Richard you can insult Carp Anglers and anyone else who dares say Kill them because its direct action thats needed and not pointless argueing or debating or joining forces with other groups who dont care what we think..Its down to us anglers to try and stop whats happening no point relying on others..
 
Bit harsh there Craig . I think your reponse perfectly illustrates one of the core problems here , namely lots of huffing and puffing amongst and against each other and not enough big picture thinking to look at what would really be effective in solving this problem , namely co-operation with all interested parties . That said I don't think many anglers are that bothered about the cormorant problem . Just look at this forum: 1,100 views of this thread , 3,000 + on which winter suit . Says it all really ....
 
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That is a very interesting thread , and is insightful on the birding fraternities take on this situation , there are also some equally insightful remarks on how anglers and their interests are perceived by others .
 
I am sorry if what i said comes across as HARSH...But the truth is no one actually cares about this outside Angling. Time for us Anglers to understand this and take direct action. The RSPB or ANY other groups are not concerned because it doesent affect them. Were damned if we do and were damned if we dont is how i see it..Personally i couldent give a hoot what other groups or people think about Anglers because they dont care about us anyway..

And how come if shooting a catapult or DIRECT ACTION is mentioned, straight away people on here start slagging off Carp Anglers?..Guess this just illustrates the divisions in Angling which in its self is just as big a problem..

If you want something done you MUST do it yourself..
 
The ONLY affective way to deal with this problem is to kill them, end of story..No point people looking through rose tinted glasses, they simply have to be killed or the alternative is watch our sport slowly diminish, well we can all join the RSPB then and watch the birdies...:eek:
 
Craig, you're just the other side of a coin to the angling hating bird lovers! Unless you're advocating illegal killing of cormorants, how are you expecting a cull to be sanctioned with a 'to hell with the rest of them' attitude?
Reading through that rspb forum it would appear the only way we're going to get a cull sanctioned is to provide irrefutable evidence of damage to 'natural' fish stocks, solely due to cormorant predation. I can see their point, it's no good just moaning that you don't catch as many fish any more and you see cormorants all the time. Like it or not, providing evidence is the only way we'll get any where.
 
Ok let’s nip the “Slagging off carp anglers†bit in the bud. There are many fine carp anglers out there who use their knowledge to adapt to the situation on the day and put some nice fish on the bank. I would never slag off such anglers; the problem is I do not happen upon these people very often. What I do happen across is a zombie like race of identical looking bivvies / rods / pods / rigs/ baits sitting for hours and hours and catching very little. They are not carp anglers and I will continue to make fun of them whenever I like as their behaviour is laughable. In future let’s call them as ZCA’s to avoid any confusion that I might be slagging off real anglers.

“The ONLY affective way to deal with this problem is to kill them, end of storyâ€. (I should point out this quote was referring to cormorants and not ZCA’s).
This sort of logic just will not work. All through history we have killed what we feared and we have feared what we do not understand. It is also true that if you ignore history then you are doomed to repeat it. Let’s face it the waters are noisy enough with the sound of massed ZCA buzzers without the sound of gunfire as well.

“Who cares what various organisations or people think about Anglers anywayâ€.
Quite a lot of us actually, I do not want to be a marginalised minority. The majority of anglers are ardent conservationists and it is that message that we are failing to get across to the general public and organisations like the RSPB. As long as we keep on with this reactionary and totally unworkable “kill them all†mentality then we will get absolutely nothing of any lasting value achieved

Richard
 
maybe we should invent a dance to scare the poor little darlings off, I'm talking cormorants not carp anglers..lol
 
Richard,
So what do you call Barbel Anglers who use ALARMS & BIVVIES.?..:D:D..What do you call TWITCHERS who sit in a hyde waiting to see some rare Bird whilst dressed in CAMO?..:D:D:D..
 
France culls 40 thousand of the things every year, no messing about over there.
 
help needed

is there a rifle that could be bought over the counter that would see a commorant off,i would gladly take one with me!
 
And the States cull 160,000. I just can't understand how so many posts seem to drift off the point on this issue. The RSPB is happy to cull birds as necessary i.e. shoot crows where they threaten terns, and wipe out ruddy ducks. If something is not done to reduce the numbers of cormorants there will be a massive impact on fish stocks. Those of you who don't feel very strongly about the cormorant issue need to see a flock of these birds at work. It's disgusting to watch. I think that in comparison you can forget the impact of otters. Whether it is crows decimating terns or cormorants decimating fish stocks doesn't seem a million miles apart. As for those clots Michaela on Autumnwatch and the Guardian reporter who both love to see the cormorants decimating fish stocks, maybe they would like to watch and applaud the crows destroying terns' nests. Lovely to see nature at work.
 
Craig Wood said:
Richard,
.What do you call TWITCHERS who sit in a hyde waiting to see some rare Bird whilst dressed in CAMO?..:D:D:D..
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You don't need a "hyde" (sic) to see rare birds in Telford, all you have to do is sit in a corner in Wetherspoons on a Friday night.

Lovely plumage.......
 
What do I call Barbel Anglers who use alarms and bivvies……I call them me. I fish all day and into the evening, when I’ve had enough I reel in and sleep in my bivvie. In the morning I get up, have a cup of tea, and start all over again. My rods rest in the buzzers because that’s the only front rest I have and I use them when I go for a pee rather than reel in. This often entails a short run back to the rods with urine going everywhere but it’s a price I’m willing to pay. They are switched off at all other times because I consider the rod bent double and the spool whirring away as sufficient indication of a bite.

The above is not to be confused with the ZCA. Although he uses similar equipment he devotes his time to sleeping, making endless bacon butties and glowering at everyone who comes within 100 meters of his swim / camp / tented village. Over 80% of his fish are hooked while he is asleep while I catch all my fish while wide awake…if somewhat damp on occasions.

Anyway back to the birds. Of course the “reporter†in the Guardian and the bimbo on Autumn Watch are truly ignorant of the situation we face and they also have a totally unrealistic view of nature as a whole. If it has big eyes and is fluffy and cute then it makes for good TV and that good enough for them. The BIG problem is that Joe Public broadly thinks the same, on the odd occasion when he or she thinks at all. Therefore wandering about with guns blasting away at cormorants and otters (aren’t they cute) is not going to do anything other than to re-enforce their already misguided opinions. Come on lads….do you really believe this rubbish you post or are you just trying to stir things up? Assuming you went ahead and took a “balls to the rest of the birdwatchers†approach, how long would it be before the first accidental casualties became a news item?

“A middle aged man out walking his dog had to be air lifted to Bristol Frenchay hospital today after suffering a gunshot wound to the head. Police are questioning an angler who maintained that this was acceptable collateral damage considering the damage that the black plague was doing to his pet carp called Norman. The riparian owner said the facility would remain closed for the foreseeabl future.â€

Richard
 
Richard Hamlyn said:
What do I call Barbel Anglers who use alarms and bivvies……I call them me. I fish all day and into the evening, when I’ve had enough I reel in and sleep in my bivvie. In the morning I get up, have a cup of tea, and start all over again. My rods rest in the buzzers because that’s the only front rest I have and I use them when I go for a pee rather than reel in. This often entails a short run back to the rods with urine going everywhere but it’s a price I’m willing to pay. They are switched off at all other times because I consider the rod bent double and the spool whirring away as sufficient indication of a bite.

[B]The above is not to be confused with the ZCA. Although he uses similar equipment he devotes his time to sleeping, making endless bacon butties and glowering at everyone who comes within 100 meters of his swim / camp / tented village. Over 80% of his fish are hooked while he is asleep while I catch all my fish while wide awake…[/B]if somewhat damp on occasions.

Anyway back to the birds. Of course the “reporter” in the Guardian and the bimbo on Autumn Watch are truly ignorant of the situation we face and they also have a totally unrealistic view of nature as a whole. If it has big eyes and is fluffy and cute then it makes for good TV and that good enough for them. The BIG problem is that Joe Public broadly thinks the same, on the odd occasion when he or she thinks at all. Therefore wandering about with guns blasting away at cormorants and otters (aren’t they cute) is not going to do anything other than to re-enforce their already misguided opinions. Come on lads….do you really believe this rubbish you post or are you just trying to stir things up? Assuming you went ahead and took a “balls to the rest of the birdwatchers” approach, how long would it be before the first accidental casualties became a news item?

“A middle aged man out walking his dog had to be air lifted to Bristol Frenchay hospital today after suffering a gunshot wound to the head. Police are questioning an angler who maintained that this was acceptable collateral damage considering the damage that the black plague was doing to his pet carp called Norman. The riparian owner said the facility would remain closed for the foreseeable future.”

Richard
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The biggest threat to angling is anglers that are intolerant of the way other anglers fish, if you dont like the way some fish dont do it, dont slag others off with remarks like the above, by the way where is your evidence that 80% of carp are caught while an angler is asleep? ór is it just your unevidenced view? i dont like to hear the sound of buzzers at ANY time when i am fishing for barbel, perhaps you should stop using them because i dont like them.
 
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A middle aged man out walking his dog had to be air lifted to Bristol Frenchay hospital today after suffering a gunshot wound to the head. Police are questioning an angler who maintained that this was acceptable collateral damage considering the damage that the black plague was doing to his pet carp called Norman. The riparian owner said the facility would remain closed for the foreseeable future.â€

I don't think that he would last long at the Frenchay if my recollection of the success rates of treatment are correct.

I don't buy into this don't do anything in case it arouses negative publicity. I have stated many times on this thread, if the RSPB can shoot birds why can't other groups. I just can't see your average angler with a 12 bore cocked and ready to go. You need a licence! I can see an experienced game keeper doing the job or specialists brought in to address a particular problem.
 
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