Haydn Clarke
Senior Member & Supporter
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Chris Yates Rod/Reel Collection
- Thread starter Aaron Littlefield
- Start date
Haydn Clarke
Senior Member & Supporter
buy cheap and get one restored, that way you know the rings and whippings are good and it'll be worth as much as, if not more than, it cost you
Indeed Andrew. Or there is another way: DIY. Cheaper, great fun and hugely rewarding. In the best traditions of Blue peter: Here's one I done earlier...
Before...
And after...
The above is a Lee & sons of Redditch, Hampshire rod and it's pretty much the same rod as the much-coveted B James Avocet. Whole cane butt, 11 foot, 3 pc, split cane middle and top. Price was about £40.00 if I remember correctly.
And another. This time a rodrill of London. Again, 11 foot, 3 piece but this time built split cane butt too. A much heftier rod this one. Rebuilt from the blank up and with agate lined guides throughout (sourced on ebay and very cheap - compared with Hopkins Holloway). Burgundy silk whippings and corn gold intermediates.
before...
And after...
Andrew Green
Senior Member
both nice rods, you do a fine restoration job, i like the milky colored lined rings, tried to get some from America through a guy in Dorset but they are £13-£17 each
Haydn Clarke
Senior Member & Supporter
Those rings are white agates. The only fly in the ointment, if indeed it can be considered such, is that the tip ring does not stand of the rod quite as far as the others, which are low bells type. The tip ring being like an avon.
Andrew The full set cost about £40 from a chap on ebay who, incidentally, did have quite a few more. I shall try and find out his seller name and let you know.
Andrew The full set cost about £40 from a chap on ebay who, incidentally, did have quite a few more. I shall try and find out his seller name and let you know.
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Andrew Green
Senior Member
thanks Haydn, that would be great, do you know what sizes he had. i need a 16mm butt, 14 assorted intermediates and 2 tip rings if i want to do the whole rod with it's twin tips, think that will be more than £40 but worth a try. planned build at the moment is with aqualite tip and 10mm but with Hopkins and Holloway high bells to have it as a float rod style, but they would look great on it
but worth a try. planned build at the moment is with aqualite tip and 10mm but with Hopkins and Holloway high bells to have it as a float rod style, but they would look great on it
Adrian Cole
Senior Member
I hope this is not out of order..sorry if it is.
With all the talk of cane rod restoration here, in my quest to find a rod blank (composite) for building a float rod I did find 2 Chapman 500 cane rods on eBay that seem in my ignorance cheap ATM.
One has a slight set in tip; what ever that means? item No 220727328420. The other is a full resto job: item No 200566433842.
I've no link with either seller so nothing for me to gain other than give you guys the heads up. The one I am watching is this one as its cheap: item No 200566158208 but I don't know if its good or bad or what type it is be it float etc. It would appear to have interest though by the questions asked.
The heads up might be of use to someone
Cheers
Adie
With all the talk of cane rod restoration here, in my quest to find a rod blank (composite) for building a float rod I did find 2 Chapman 500 cane rods on eBay that seem in my ignorance cheap ATM.
One has a slight set in tip; what ever that means? item No 220727328420. The other is a full resto job: item No 200566433842.
I've no link with either seller so nothing for me to gain other than give you guys the heads up. The one I am watching is this one as its cheap: item No 200566158208 but I don't know if its good or bad or what type it is be it float etc. It would appear to have interest though by the questions asked.
The heads up might be of use to someone
Cheers
Adie
Andrew Green
Senior Member
hi, the chapmans 500, is a10' 1lb test light avon rod, suitable for float work and light ledgering, its a lovely rod, i have a deluxe which has been restored and is a nice roach and chub rod. http://www.chapmanblanks.co.uk/rod_specs/chapman_rod_specifications_500.htm
the 'set in the tip' means it has a bend in it but this can be straightened, usually so it wouldn't notice but i tend to strip the section back to the cane, straighten and replace the guides with new and re-whip then give 5 coats of varnish with a light sand between each usually with the side where the set, or droop in some descriptions,facing upwards away from the guides as it will have a tendency to want to 'set' back again on some rods.
the restored one is nice and it wouldn't take more than a but of manipulation in front of a electric bar fire to sort out and the other one is worth having to restore to full glory, should be able to have this done with all new guides for around £50 if you can't do it yourself as long as the cork is ok, another £30 if it needs replacing and another £50 if the ferules need replacing. so it's a gamble getting one to restore but the prices above are very worst case scenarios, brobably cost no more than £60 to have a very usable rod worth about £100 or so but not a fortune as cane rods go.
as my rule of thumb
1- if someone famous has used one or owned it
2- if that the maker is well known
3- if the rod is rare
4- if the sections are over 48"
5- if it is complete, with bag, stoppers and transfers , A1 condition
The more of these factors, the more valuable it will be.
So, the 500 is a good make decent length, quite common and has not been featured on a famous person's tv program etc, so, 2 out of 5 in my book that mean's i would have it if the total cost including restoration came to less than £100, another £10 if it has a original bag maybe more if the transfer and bag label were in good condition.
This formula explains why some identical rods cost more than others, the original B James and sons mk4 carp with makers bag being a prime example of 5out of 5 with a fer even getting higher ratings for having a particularly notable previous owner or outstanding condition, again like Dick Walkers own MK4 which would command a blank check from many if it came on the market
the only other factor in getting a rod to restore is, 'how much do i want it' and in some cases the 'want' outweighs the cost
the 'set in the tip' means it has a bend in it but this can be straightened, usually so it wouldn't notice but i tend to strip the section back to the cane, straighten and replace the guides with new and re-whip then give 5 coats of varnish with a light sand between each usually with the side where the set, or droop in some descriptions,facing upwards away from the guides as it will have a tendency to want to 'set' back again on some rods.
the restored one is nice and it wouldn't take more than a but of manipulation in front of a electric bar fire to sort out and the other one is worth having to restore to full glory, should be able to have this done with all new guides for around £50 if you can't do it yourself as long as the cork is ok, another £30 if it needs replacing and another £50 if the ferules need replacing. so it's a gamble getting one to restore but the prices above are very worst case scenarios, brobably cost no more than £60 to have a very usable rod worth about £100 or so but not a fortune as cane rods go.
as my rule of thumb
1- if someone famous has used one or owned it
2- if that the maker is well known
3- if the rod is rare
4- if the sections are over 48"
5- if it is complete, with bag, stoppers and transfers , A1 condition
The more of these factors, the more valuable it will be.
So, the 500 is a good make decent length, quite common and has not been featured on a famous person's tv program etc, so, 2 out of 5 in my book that mean's i would have it if the total cost including restoration came to less than £100, another £10 if it has a original bag maybe more if the transfer and bag label were in good condition.
This formula explains why some identical rods cost more than others, the original B James and sons mk4 carp with makers bag being a prime example of 5out of 5 with a fer even getting higher ratings for having a particularly notable previous owner or outstanding condition, again like Dick Walkers own MK4 which would command a blank check from many if it came on the market
the only other factor in getting a rod to restore is, 'how much do i want it' and in some cases the 'want' outweighs the cost
Andrew Green
Senior Member
the other rod, looks to be similar in design to an allcocks rod, can't remember which but the longer one than the lucky strike. l looks to be in reasonable condition although the picture is small, but at that price it's worth a punt if you don't i will, but only if you don't go for it, seeing you put me on to it, would go to about £20 as a punt seeing it didn't sell at £4.99 last time bit more research yet to do..
if you don't i will, but only if you don't go for it, seeing you put me on to it, would go to about £20 as a punt seeing it didn't sell at £4.99 last time bit more research yet to do..
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Haydn Clarke
Senior Member & Supporter
Agree with all Andrew has said re. the Chapman's. I also have a 500 De-luxe and the 550 Deluxe too. Both very good rods , and slightly undervalued, I feel. Chapmans orignally made them to compete with the cheaper glass fibre rods that were coming onto the market at the time. Hence they were considered a budget, no frills rod — no intermediates and agates on the standard rods. Despite this the cane is excellent, as you'd expect from such a well respected name as Chapmans.
My first restoration job was on the 500 I own and it's a good place to start. I'm probably going to re-restore mine, as I was experimenting with varnish aplication methods when I done it and have now perfected this somewhat.
The other rod looks ok. Personally, I avoid twelve footer float rods. I enjoy fishing cane but only within it's comfortable limitations. Thus anything heavy is usually restricted to leger work. Mind you on such a cheap rod it is not uncommon to alter it on a re-build and use it for different purposes. You could get some low bells or open bridge guides and use it as a big river leger rod. When you think what a blank costs from Chapmans or Agutters then the money that rod should get looks very cheap.
For more talk on canes and pins then Purepiscator is the best place on the net, I have found. The chaps on the forum are a great source of info and very helpful too. Might be worth a look for those interested.
Andrew, I've emailed the fella who does the agates. I'll let you know if he still has any.
My first restoration job was on the 500 I own and it's a good place to start. I'm probably going to re-restore mine, as I was experimenting with varnish aplication methods when I done it and have now perfected this somewhat.
The other rod looks ok. Personally, I avoid twelve footer float rods. I enjoy fishing cane but only within it's comfortable limitations. Thus anything heavy is usually restricted to leger work. Mind you on such a cheap rod it is not uncommon to alter it on a re-build and use it for different purposes. You could get some low bells or open bridge guides and use it as a big river leger rod. When you think what a blank costs from Chapmans or Agutters then the money that rod should get looks very cheap.
For more talk on canes and pins then Purepiscator is the best place on the net, I have found. The chaps on the forum are a great source of info and very helpful too. Might be worth a look for those interested.
Andrew, I've emailed the fella who does the agates. I'll let you know if he still has any.
Aaron Littlefield
Senior Member
Guys this is quite entertaing...as I've just of this minute bought a Chapman 500...
The guy I bought it from said there might be an ever so slight droop at the end, I could barely see what he was on about. He assures me the rod is set free i.e. no bent tip going sideways - looking down the rod it appears straight. Once put together the rod shows an ever so slight natural curve towards the point - i.e. its not straight out flat in a line, but shows a small 'droop' at the end...only way I can describe it.
Is this normal - anything to worry about?
Cheers
Aaron
The guy I bought it from said there might be an ever so slight droop at the end, I could barely see what he was on about. He assures me the rod is set free i.e. no bent tip going sideways - looking down the rod it appears straight. Once put together the rod shows an ever so slight natural curve towards the point - i.e. its not straight out flat in a line, but shows a small 'droop' at the end...only way I can describe it.
Is this normal - anything to worry about?
Cheers
Aaron
Haydn Clarke
Senior Member & Supporter
Nothing to worry about Aaron. Most, if not all cane rods will dip towards the end when put together.
Paul Boote
No Longer a Member
The Chairman on Friday
Subject: Droop
Tip: having one or two of One's Lady Guides present on the bank works wonders.
As ever,
B.B.
Subject: Droop
Tip: having one or two of One's Lady Guides present on the bank works wonders.
As ever,
B.B.
Andrew Green
Senior Member
Arron, that's why when i rebuild a top section I rotate it 180 degrees before I put the new rings on. 50 years one way and hopefully another 50 years the other
Haydn, many thanks, PM me if he gets back to you.
Haydn, many thanks, PM me if he gets back to you.
Adrian Cole
Senior Member
the other rod, looks to be similar in design to an allcocks rod, can't remember which but the longer one than the lucky strike. l looks to be in reasonable condition although the picture is small, but at that price it's worth a punt
Andrew
Feel free to take a punt on that rod, if I was really serious then i'd never have put the item number up
.I do love the looks and feel of the cane rods but as I think I said in another post somewhere I'd been out of fishing for 30 years then got back into it with 4 blank sessions before getting my leg smashed up in a RTA... still recovering and just been told more surgery! So I am a little rough on the 'fish feel' for using cane. One day I might have a go at a Chapman 500 as they sound middle ground price. Thanks for your help & advice & sorry for taking the thread off track!
Cheers
Adie
Steve Roffey
Senior Member
The trouble with cane is that it brings back memories, just found this on eBay..........http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Eggington-Lon...tingGoods_FishingAcces_RL&hash=item43a4ac83a6
As a boy I lived just round the corner from Egginton's shop, which was located almost next door to Merton bus garage, and the River Wandle flowed opposite our front door.
My first split cane rod was an Avon 10' that was ordered from the brothers Egginton with a 10 shilling(50p) deposit, then paid for at the rate of 5 shillings(25p) each week from my paper round. Every time I went in to make a payment the rod would be brought out for my inspection, so I saw it throughout it's construction, right from the split pieces of cane to the finished item. I had a good few fish on that rod from the Mole and the Thames before it was sadly stolen when my car was broken into in 1974.
Nowadays I have a Chapmans F.J. Taylor Roach rod which has landed a few barbel, as well as carp to nearly 20lbs. Also an Aspindale "Swaledale" which gets occasional outings for chub, and an un-named Avon style rod which is stripped awaiting restoration. Unfortunately the cane in the tip section of that one has come apart just above the ferrule and I'm uncertain how to tackle re-glueing it.
As a boy I lived just round the corner from Egginton's shop, which was located almost next door to Merton bus garage, and the River Wandle flowed opposite our front door.
My first split cane rod was an Avon 10' that was ordered from the brothers Egginton with a 10 shilling(50p) deposit, then paid for at the rate of 5 shillings(25p) each week from my paper round. Every time I went in to make a payment the rod would be brought out for my inspection, so I saw it throughout it's construction, right from the split pieces of cane to the finished item. I had a good few fish on that rod from the Mole and the Thames before it was sadly stolen when my car was broken into in 1974.
Nowadays I have a Chapmans F.J. Taylor Roach rod which has landed a few barbel, as well as carp to nearly 20lbs. Also an Aspindale "Swaledale" which gets occasional outings for chub, and an un-named Avon style rod which is stripped awaiting restoration. Unfortunately the cane in the tip section of that one has come apart just above the ferrule and I'm uncertain how to tackle re-glueing it.
Haydn Clarke
Senior Member & Supporter
Relatively easy to repair, Steve. I had to do part of a tip section a while back that had the same problem. First you need a water-proof adhesive, something like Cascamite, polyurethane glue or at a push, water-proof PVA. Carefully open up the section where it is de-laminating with a stanley blade and brush the glue liberally into it. Move around the rod a bit and brush in from as many loose sides as you can get into. Then tape it up tight with some tape or thin twine. Leave it to go off, then clean it up. Job done.
Steve Roffey
Senior Member
That's pretty much the way I thought I'd have to do it Haydn, I can remember the Egginton rod being bound with twine while the glue was setting.
Andrew Green
Senior Member
i used gripfill (the brand, not the construction adhesive builders use) polyurethane wood glue to repair an old section, again under the ferule, on a mitre hardy float rod, wrapped with poly twine up then back down the repair and hung overnight, scraped back with a Stanley blade sanded and varnished and it's been fine for about 3 years now. the advantage with that glue is it foams up when exposed o moisture and gets right into the cracks.
Another Fred J' user, amongst other old sticks, Steve, and spent a bit of time by the Wandle when working on Willow lane, Mitchum. the river went past the front of our workshops and used to go out at lunch to watch the chub feed. Another place was at Hackbridge near Monument tools, loads of good roach and chub but was told barbel but never saw them myself. One of our customers was the 'Kiss me Hardy' pub and again the Wandle ran along the back, saw some nice barbel there then, just before that chemical contamination at the water works killed off most of the fish, 4 years ago i think, not been there for 3 years, redundancy and self employed now in Kent.
With all this talk of rods and reels, there's the bits that go with them, i have a net handle made from a broken Homer rod but have been looking for a net to compliment my rods and 2 have come on eBay at once. A replica Dick walker and the bits to make a replica Dick walker, should be interesting to see how much they go to, and if it goes over my limit
) polyurethane wood glue to repair an old section, again under the ferule, on a mitre hardy float rod, wrapped with poly twine up then back down the repair and hung overnight, scraped back with a Stanley blade sanded and varnished and it's been fine for about 3 years now. the advantage with that glue is it foams up when exposed o moisture and gets right into the cracks. Another Fred J' user, amongst other old sticks, Steve, and spent a bit of time by the Wandle when working on Willow lane, Mitchum. the river went past the front of our workshops and used to go out at lunch to watch the chub feed. Another place was at Hackbridge near Monument tools, loads of good roach and chub but was told barbel but never saw them myself. One of our customers was the 'Kiss me Hardy' pub and again the Wandle ran along the back, saw some nice barbel there then, just before that chemical contamination at the water works killed off most of the fish, 4 years ago i think, not been there for 3 years, redundancy and self employed now in Kent.
With all this talk of rods and reels, there's the bits that go with them, i have a net handle made from a broken Homer rod but have been looking for a net to compliment my rods and 2 have come on eBay at once. A replica Dick walker and the bits to make a replica Dick walker, should be interesting to see how much they go to, and if it goes over my limit
Andrew Green
Senior Member
It's been a while since this thread was last added too and quite a lot has happened in my collection of 'sticks'. firstly, the replica walker landing net is now mine and while not a proper replica it's close enough to compliment my rods.
The rod i had planned has been finished, a twin tip, twin middle and twin butt combination that means it can be fished at 12'6, 11'6, 10' and 9' and with a 3/4lb and 1lb test tip, a total of eight variations, and as there are two versions of each section the remaining three also make a second rod. so far my favorite combination has been the 12'6 as a float rod with a 9' as a ledger/ light stalking rod. All the guides are chromed vintage looking But lined with hardlon. the only sections of original cane are the middles which were from a seriously damaged Fred J Taylor roach rod and a 2' piece from unnamed heavy Avon style rod found in a pile of rubbish. the tips were both new, a FJT Roach tip from Chapmans and a MK4 Avon tip from Agutters. both butts were made from scratch and matching ferules were used so all the parts could be interchanged. so far a 6lb tench has been it's best catch and it felt wonderful
Lastly, a sorry collection of rods are waiting to be restored, when funds are available, a Chapmans hunter, B James roach perfection and B James Kennet perfection. All the cane is the correct length but all are cosmetically very poor . Also found a very sad MK4 carp rod that had lost 6" from the tip and had 6" hack sawed from the butt and a cheap plastic fixed reel seat fitted, very sad as i said. it's now being turned into a proper stalking rod, with the same lined guides as my combination rod, a new 20" fill cork handle and new rubber button, the test curve feels good, about 1 3/4lb and should make a very nice rod. An added bonus of this rod was it had the correct agate lined tip and butt guides for my own early onion handled MK4 carp rod, so had them fitted to replace the unlined ones, until i break another one
managed to find a billy lane ledger rod and the swing/quiver tip is indeed spliced in and made from gut, this one has twin tips and long and short butt sections too, 5 pieces in all with original bag, will go nicely with the black arrow
since the start of the new season i haven't even touched a carbon rod with the exception of a hexagraph no2, but it didn't get used on the day
i tried to post a link for a picture of the rod but it didn't work, don't know why
The rod i had planned has been finished, a twin tip, twin middle and twin butt combination that means it can be fished at 12'6, 11'6, 10' and 9' and with a 3/4lb and 1lb test tip, a total of eight variations, and as there are two versions of each section the remaining three also make a second rod. so far my favorite combination has been the 12'6 as a float rod with a 9' as a ledger/ light stalking rod. All the guides are chromed vintage looking But lined with hardlon. the only sections of original cane are the middles which were from a seriously damaged Fred J Taylor roach rod and a 2' piece from unnamed heavy Avon style rod found in a pile of rubbish. the tips were both new, a FJT Roach tip from Chapmans and a MK4 Avon tip from Agutters. both butts were made from scratch and matching ferules were used so all the parts could be interchanged. so far a 6lb tench has been it's best catch and it felt wonderful
Lastly, a sorry collection of rods are waiting to be restored, when funds are available, a Chapmans hunter, B James roach perfection and B James Kennet perfection. All the cane is the correct length but all are cosmetically very poor . Also found a very sad MK4 carp rod that had lost 6" from the tip and had 6" hack sawed from the butt and a cheap plastic fixed reel seat fitted, very sad as i said
. it's now being turned into a proper stalking rod, with the same lined guides as my combination rod, a new 20" fill cork handle and new rubber button, the test curve feels good, about 1 3/4lb and should make a very nice rod. An added bonus of this rod was it had the correct agate lined tip and butt guides for my own early onion handled MK4 carp rod, so had them fitted to replace the unlined ones, until i break another one managed to find a billy lane ledger rod and the swing/quiver tip is indeed spliced in and made from gut, this one has twin tips and long and short butt sections too, 5 pieces in all with original bag, will go nicely with the black arrow
since the start of the new season i haven't even touched a carbon rod with the exception of a hexagraph no2, but it didn'
t get used on the dayi tried to post a link for a picture of the rod but it didn't work, don't know why
Haydn Clarke
Senior Member & Supporter
Andrew, that pile of rods awaiting restoration, you've either been spending some serious wonga, or you've been having some serious luck. All three of those are big money rods.
I'm still restoring a few and currently have a Sealey Octofloat de-luxe under way (nearly finished) a Precision Tudor Supreme and I finally managed to get my hands on a Swimversa, Sadly a snapped tip one, but I'll probably get a Chapmans replacement.
The Walker landing net sounds nice. Agutters by any chance? I seem to remeber that they do one but I've never seen one. Some of the hooped Ash nets are very nice too. I think Barder do one and I know that Paul Cook does them too.
I'm still restoring a few and currently have a Sealey Octofloat de-luxe under way (nearly finished) a Precision Tudor Supreme and I finally managed to get my hands on a Swimversa, Sadly a snapped tip one, but I'll probably get a Chapmans replacement.
The Walker landing net sounds nice. Agutters by any chance? I seem to remeber that they do one but I've never seen one. Some of the hooped Ash nets are very nice too. I think Barder do one and I know that Paul Cook does them too.