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Chris Yates Rod/Reel Collection

in deed, my late model Allcocks wizard was fitted with a tip ring with a screw thread so when it was restored it had the same, very common to have them in the 60's and 70's, made them seem more versatile to the prospective buyers, or so i am told.

nice to see another black arrow user, although mine's the later fibertube version, not cane:)
 
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Andrew Green said:
nice to see another black arrow user, although mine's the later fibertube version, not cane:)
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Andrew,
the Black Arrow >>>-------> 2 is a glass rod. User would be a bit strong. I've not actually used it in anger since the mid eighties when I got a Shakespeare Omni Match as a Christmas present.;)
 
12' brown fiber tube, or old style glass with a cloth texture , i thought were mk3's with all cane and part cane part fibertube versions before it, i use mine on a local pond for rudd and crucians with a grice and young's royal avon pin, paid £6 for it and gave it a full rebuild including a new spliced and sheathed to 6" as it was missing. has a nice action but that was before i had the wizard;)

the trouble with getting too much vintage gear and wanting to use it is the maintenance. how often do you have a wet day pack up and leave your modern gear as it is then know it'll be ready to use next time, you can't do that with cane and old reels, they need to be looked after a bit more to keep them that way. put in the garage or cupboard, lent against a wall or near a heat source and you end up with a bent rod that can take hours to put right:(

dried, cleaned and dabbed with varnish where needed then hung in their bags with the tip pointing upwards, the reels cleaned, oiled and put in a case. only takes a few minutes and there ready to go next time


someone said how far do we go with using vintage gear, with me its as far as the float. line and hooks, leads and shot are for the most part the same as i would otherwise use although i use much simpler methods when ledgering, touch ledgering being a favorite although i can't claim to be as effective as i would like, and free-lining a bait for chub and roach in clear water watching as the bait, often bread, is sucked in as the only bite indication. great fun. as for old silk and gut lines and casts, they are fit for glass cases but not for use now. i do however use a landing net handle made from the butt and first sections of a whole cane 'Homer and sons of Holborn, that comes out at about 7' and have a folding net from the 50's to restore to go with it although Mr Norman does make a very nice replica of Dick Walkers net that i quite fancy;)
 
Andrew Green said:
in deed, my late model Allcocks wizard was fitted with a tip ring with a screw thread so when it was restored it had the same, very common to have them in the 60's and 70's, made them seem more versatile to the prospective buyers, or so i am told.

nice to see another black arrow user, although mine's the later fibertube version, not cane:)
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Back in the late 60's and 70's weren't screw in swing tips and quiver tips fairly new and all the rage? That would explain the tip rings from rods of that era.
 
Andrew Green said:
although Mr Norman does make a very nice replica of Dick Walkers net that i quite fancy;)
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And there is a chap who sells landing nets made from reclaimed cane(old broken rods, pressumably) on ebay. They look rather nice, if you like that kind of thing and they are a damn site cheaper that the Agutters replica.

Aaron, that rod you bought is probably quite a good buy at that price. Milwards have an excellent name amongst cane afficianados — the Swimversa being a favourite of a certain Mr Venables. The seller is well known too, so I think you have probably got your self a decent rod there.

Another point worth mentioning, if you are not already aware that is, stand of rings, ie. what you usually get on a float rod are not really suitable for legering as they can put extra twist into the rod tip. If you intend legering with a cane rod then far better to get one with low bells or open bridge guides like you get on an Avon or MK IV.

Enjoy the rod and may you put a hefty bend into it.

All the best,
Haydn
 
i know Haydn, he's not far from me, but don't like his, they use the alloy ring like an old keepnet one, with hinged joints to fold into three. nice to look at but not for more than roach, maybe chub at a push. you get what you pay for and when it's about the care of the fish a good net is an investment. also if you get a look at Agutter's course rods, much less than Barder's, and for me, just a trip up the road. visited Mr Norman a few times, nice to see so much new cane in all stages from huge lengths of whole tonkin to the finished rods, could rummage through his stock for hours;)

wasn't the screw in swing tip something to do with Billy Lane? Anyone?
 
Andrew Green said:
i know Haydn, he's not far from me, but don't like his, they use the alloy ring like an old keepnet one, with hinged joints to fold into three. nice to look at but not for more than roach, maybe chub at a push. you get what you pay for and when it's about the care of the fish a good net is an investment. also if you get a look at Agutter's course rods, much less than Barder's, and for me, just a trip up the road. visited Mr Norman a few times, nice to see so much new cane in all stages from huge lengths of whole tonkin to the finished rods, could rummage through his stock for hours;)

wasn't the screw in swing tip something to do with Billy Lane? Anyone?
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At one time I was seriously considering buying an Agutters blank and building up a rod for myself. I decided against it after some advice from some other cane buffs. I decided instead to go down the route of buying some old cane rods and restoring them instead. I'm glad I did as it was much cheaper.

What I did learn from a few others was that Agutters are good value but there is much better quality available. Chapman's of ware being one, and if I ever decided to build one from new cane then that would be my first port of call. That landing net that Agutters make does look good though, far better that the reclaimed ones I agree, but at a price. Some of the spoon nets, made from ash look rather nice too. I believe both Paul Cook and Edward Barder do them.
 
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Andrew Green said:
i know Haydn, he's not far from me, but don't like his, they use the alloy ring like an old keepnet one, with hinged joints to fold into three. nice to look at but not for more than roach, maybe chub at a push. you get what you pay for and when it's about the care of the fish a good net is an investment. also if you get a look at Agutter's course rods, much less than Barder's, and for me, just a trip up the road. visited Mr Norman a few times, nice to see so much new cane in all stages from huge lengths of whole tonkin to the finished rods, could rummage through his stock for hours;)

wasn't the screw in swing tip something to do with Billy Lane? Anyone?
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From memory, the Billy Lane match rod (about 1962/3?) had a spliced in swing tip, rather than screwed in. Again not quite sure, but I think the screwed in versions came a little later.
 
the thing with Agutter's is they're traditionally made and finished, not glossy 2 pack and i like the 'made in a shed' feel to it, real cottage industry keeping the old ways alive. i only get blanks from them and Chapmans because of the cost of finished rods, that and i only usually need one section to repair a rod as opposed to building from scratch. the price of ferules is another big cost, the chapmans one for the butt to middle of a Fred J Taylor roach rod is over £45 + carage + VAT:eek::eek::eek: i got nearly the same for £10 each, they won't be interchangeable with originals but then what old cane rods are;) the new top section wasn't bad at £60 +VAT and was a perfect match for color too.

the list of Chris's rods has me wondering, how much input did he give to Barder on rods like 'the bishop', and what other product has he helped develop. His PFA counterpart has his name on a few products as do most high profile anglers, but apart from the links with Barder, without a good googleing, i don't know of any.

with the earlier mention of 'The Golden Scale Club' and its conditions of membership, what a list of anglers to chose from for a day's fishing if you could. The three things you need, as i understood it, are 1- a love of vintage tackle and methods, 2- a love of real beer and musty old pubs, well that's two so far;) and, 3- a certain eccentricity, i'm on my way, where's my deer-stalker...:D:D:D
 
Andrew, I think I've read somewhere that Chris worked with both Richard Carter (referring to him once as the official 'Golden Scale Club reel maker') and Paul Witcher on various centrepin reels.

Richard made some called the Dragonfly and Damselfly (either for Chris or designed in collaboration with him), but don't quote me on that. Certainly Paul Witcher collaborated with him on one reel, I think its was the 'Bisterne'. Other than that, I haven't really seen Chris endorsing or putting his name to much other than Edward Barder rods - of which I think there are three bearing Chris' name in the catalogue. I believe the Merlin is the most recent addition.

Aaron

P.S. Regarding my Milwards - do you reckon its not worth changing the tip? Wish I could see another for comparison.
 
The guy that is selling the rod restores them, I might ask him if he'd be kind enough to change it for me so that its period correct...for a few more £. It'll be used more as a float rod, as I've got plans to get an avon rod for ledgering anyway. Just wish I could find another Float Rover to compare it with (curses!).

I also got his Octofloat that he was auctioning, this one isn't restored but is useable.
 
Update: the seller has agreed to change the tip to a tidy agate lined float tip...I feel better about this, as I'll be using it exclusively for float fishing, probably won't make any difference but at least its correct. I managed to contact another Float Rover owner and they tell me it originally had quite a delicate float tip ring.
 
Andrew Green said:
the list of Chris's rods has me wondering, how much input did he give to Barder on rods like 'the bishop', and what other product has he helped develop. His PFA counterpart has his name on a few products as do most high profile anglers, but apart from the links with Barder, without a good googleing, i don't know of any.

with the earlier mention of 'The Golden Scale Club' and its conditions of membership, what a list of anglers to chose from for a day's fishing if you could. The three things you need, as i understood it, are 1- a love of vintage tackle and methods, 2- a love of real beer and musty old pubs, well that's two so far;) and, 3- a certain eccentricity, i'm on my way, where's my deer-stalker...:D:D:D
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Chris was involved with the design of two Carter reels - the Dragonfly and Damselfly. Both are no longer available, but they were very nice and simple - similar to the Hardy Conquest but far, far better. His involvement with EB started around the time APFA was being filmed, and continues to this day - it's a loose, obligation-free, friendship-based thing. He did help design the Bishop, Merlin and Barbus Maximus rods, the much-missed Carp Crawler and a few one-offs. He and Barder field-tested them extensively, not least during filming.The prototype of the two-piece Maximus lives in my house now, and gets used frequently. It's one of my favourite rods.

There are no real conditions of membership to the GSC, but the above points do seem to apply to most members, particularly the first two. A club book is close to the printing stage, and we've done a chapter each. Out late this year, I think, but as with all things related to the club, time has a very loose grip on events. This year, next year, who knows...

cheers

Jon
 
Haydn Clarke said:
They nearly always are delicate, and fragile too, as I have found out to my cost.
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me too:( lost the agate from a mk4 after clipping a low branch, didn't notice 'till playing a roach, well over 2lb and maybe even over 3lb, when the line snapped as i lifted the rod to bring it to the net. Gutted, and my best 'one that got away memory. A quick look found about half the agate missing and a sharp edge around the bottom that cut like a scalpel. many replacement tip rings over the years but that one cost more than just money.:(. Used it as an opportunity to do a mini restoration replacing all the rings on the tip section with new full bridge rings and a brand new but unlined tip ring, and, apart from the dope and 4 coats of varnish for the new whippings, a full rub down and varnish for the rest of the rod too. shame as it had a nice deep red lining before but even that was not original as is the butt ring, is a pink porcelain lined one that is also not original, it works though and if i ever decide to sell i will put the right ones on it, i have a nice size 3 aqualite tip and 25mm butt ring for a mk4 avon ready for that time, or when i fancy getting all 'purist' about it:D. by the way it's a later version with a doughnut not an onion like my mk4 carp.
 
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Jon - the Golden Scale Club sounds like a giggle, that'll give me something to aspire to...looks like I'm off to the Oxfam shop for a tweed jacket :) Please let us know when a book surfaces.

Andrew - ouch, sorry to hear about that roach, such pretty fish - all mine have been well under a pound if that's any help! Cracking fish of that size, a 3lb roach, the one's that get away always feel bad. I must investigate a Mk4, I think for my abilities an Avon would probably be suited over a Carp version...I guessing the latter is a stepped up version - more robust? Would either be suitable for barbel?
 
well done on getting that rod Aaron. i had one eye on it. but i'm not good at last minute sniper bidding on fleabay.

My first centrepin was one picked up at Mr Yates' recommendation - the Merlin, which was a Richard Carter reel I believe. Very nice too. spins well with a couple of BBs.

Took ages for it to appear after ordering. But was well worth the wait.
 
Aaron Littlefield said:
Jon - the Golden Scale Club sounds like a giggle, that'll give me something to aspire to...looks like I'm off to the Oxfam shop for a tweed jacket :) Please let us know when a book surfaces.

Andrew - ouch, sorry to hear about that roach, such pretty fish - all mine have been well under a pound if that's any help! Cracking fish of that size, a 3lb roach, the one's that get away always feel bad. I must investigate a Mk4, I think for my abilities an Avon would probably be suited over a Carp version...I guessing the latter is a stepped up version - more robust? Would either be suitable for barbel?
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have a look at the chapmans 500, about 1lb test, nice cane rod and parts still available from the maker, prices are much less than mk4's too. going to the place i lost that roach in march to see if i can tempt another one. a few local sources believe there's a british record in there, not sure about that but i know they go way over 2lb;)

the mk4 avon is about 1lb test and the mk4 carp about 1 1/2lb both could be used for barbel if they are in very well looked after or restored condition. i wouldn't recommend using modern methods and heavy leads or even waters with very large fish but for chub and barbel to 10lb the avon should cope if used properly and the carp should be fine for heavier fish in medium flows. just start easy with cane until you know what your rod feels like, and all feel different, so you don't risk overloading it. 6 and 10lb lines respectively are you max and don't even think of using braid. centre pin or mitchell 300 reels are most common for the reel but i like the abu 44 ledgering and an old mitchell half bail version 3 for float fishing with the avon, although i do have a grice and youngs royal avon i got for it but haven't used yet. a mitchell 300 version 5 on the carp or a olympic 8300 (daiwa 8300, i think made under licence for US market) as its a work horse of a reel with more strength than a mitchell, that and i have a huge box of new spares and 6 new spools for it, looks good on it too. don't often use the pin on the carp mk4 but when i do it's a 4" trudex to keep the gearing low;)

buy cheap and get one restored, that way you know the rings and whippings are good and it'll be worth as much as, if not more than, it cost you;)
 
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