Cat among the pigeons!

[Steve Walker]

'do you use braid, and if so, do you know why?'

Yes and yes. I find 4-6" inches of 12-15lb braid tied to 2.5 - 6ft of 12 or 16lb mono works very well. The braid allows more natural movement and the mono helps provide abrasion resistance. It's a set-up that works very well for me.

I have never noticed using a short length of braid on the hook link to cause barbel any damage, unlike silty water tench however and I no longer use it for tench fishing on the waters I fish.

Most of the anglers on this forum seem to put a lot of thought into their presentation it seems, but we all have very differing perspectives - personally I wouldn't ever dream of using a low diameter line like Supplex in 8lb for barbel fishing on the Trent. Having used Supplex on occasion for hooklengths for tench fishing and therefore being aware of its capability's I'm pretty certain if I used it on the Trent it would result in me losing some fish and leaving them with a hooklength length trailing from their mouths. Is that something you've experienced?

I agree,it would result in too many lost fish and I don't like leaving hooks in barbel.I never go any less than a 12lbs hooklength on the Trent,more often than not I use a combilink hooklength of 20lbs fluorocarbon to 15lbs sinkbraid.This combination has performed well for me,if I get snagged and have to pull for a break it's always the hook that opens up which is desirable.

 

[Ian Grant]

I agree with everything you've said there Richard, i do use coated braid, i don't strip back any of it, and it's purely for it's protection properties, i've landed Barbel in the past were the coating has been shredded but the braid was intact, and undamaged, though on one occasion, i had a savage wrap round which sprang straight back, reeling in i found the hook length had been cut midway up it's length, and i don't think i could have done it neater with a pair of scissors ! I think the hook length must have been under something very sharp, a piece of broken flint maybe, when the fish bolted it must have pulled directly against the sharp edge.
It's just what you have confidence in using, compared to mono, i doubt it puts any more fish on the bank for me, as far as encouraging a take from a Barbel.

Ian.

 

[Simon Harper]

Hi Richard. Interesting question you ask. I , in most cases, use a combi link hook length, nylon with an 2 inches of 20lb braid at the hook. The reason is the suppleness of the braid provides a supple section at the hook which in my mind is an advantage. I also use supplex when I feel it would be an advantage to and more importantly safe to. I use supplex in 0.26 and 0.28 ( 10lb and 12lb) usually in daytime / winter using smaller baits. Most of my fishing is done on the upper and middle Trent during shorter session into darkness. I do only catch one fish on the supplex before changing the hook length though. It's brilliant stuff but it does have limitations in my mind.
Tight lines Simon

 

[Joe Fletcher]

If you are fishing at night in total darkness ? Then what ever hook link you use ?
Will it make any difference to whether a fish picks up your bait or choose to ignore it ?

 

[Simon Harper]

What about feel?

 

[Joe Fletcher]

What about feel?

If you are fishing at night in the dark and a fish picks up your bait . Assuming you are using a hair rigged bait would it feel the hook first before deciding what your bait was attached to ? Mono, Braid etc etc .....
Could it tell the difference ? Before deciding to bolt and hook it self with your bait or drop it ?

 

[Graham Shaw]

Quite often in this sort of thread I've seen folk say stuff like "if it gives you confidence, then fair play, it must work for you"

I can see how this applies to so many sports, and so much else in life. But I struggle to see how it applies to barbel fishing.

Or maybe they are just being polite.

 

[Dave Quinn]

Quite often in this sort of thread I've seen folk say stuff like "if it gives you confidence, then fair play, it must work for you"

I can see how this applies to so many sports, and so much else in life. But I struggle to see how it applies to barbel fishing.

Or maybe they are just being polite.

If I'm confident in my approach it makes me far more patient, which, I think makes me more likely to catch. At least I think it does, maybe that's me kidding myself

One thing I am sure of is that I'm much happier fishing when I'm confident of catching, and that's reason enough to search it out

 

[David Craine]

I think Howard has hit the nail on the head , however I would say that some of these complex end rigs catch more anglers than fish i.e. if it looks ' scientific' and complex it must be good .Some anglers want supple end rigs others stiff , can they both be correct ?
The issue I have with braid is that it has a tendency to cut and can in certain circumstances damage fish . It is also seems to be unreliable in terms of breaking strain , many anglers using high breaking strain braid as it snaps at a point significantly lower than its claimed BS . This in my opinion is it's greatest failing and the reason why I don't use it .

Agree entireley Mike,IMO there is a place for Braid when fishing freshwater..

The bin.

Dave

 

[Neil Smart]

Quite often in this sort of thread I've seen folk say stuff like "if it gives you confidence, then fair play, it must work for you"

I can see how this applies to so many sports, and so much else in life. But I struggle to see how it applies to barbel fishing.

Or maybe they are just being polite.

Personally I have always doubted the merits of these complex rigs, but if it does add confidence then I guess it serves a purpose, the only way to disprove or prove any rig would be under a controlled experiment, but the biggest unfathomable factor as always, is the fish.

And thankfully will always be the case, there is no one best bait and no best rig, we have to be open minded about our approach as circumstances change.

It's called Angling.

 

[Richard Barrett]

I used braid in the old days for barbel as a hook link, but for me it was the lack of stretch that made me stop. I had too many of the thumping bites and on picking up the rod having the line part at the hook-link.

I use nylon now all the time and it far more reliable. I can also get a soft nylon that works. I for one don't think barbel are as "riggy" as carp and all the rigs moved over from the carp boys are pointless.

However some guys love rigs, it as big a part of they're fishing as catching, so why not let them have the fun.

My fun is having a good fight with a fish, and not simply winding them in on heavy gear designed for much bigger fish.

See; www.halfwayroundthebend.blogspot.co.uk A piece about heavy tackle used on the Trent. Just my thought's.

 

[Joe Winstanley]

For me, and the anglers I fish with, the choice of line strength for barbel on the Trent is dictated primarily by the risk of abrasion against the many snaggy rocks that the river contains. I'll use the minimum strength I think is safe. That's it. Whether you are using a 1.5lb TC rod or a 2.25lb one is irrelevant when the line is rubbing against a snag.

 

[Dave Taylor]

Can't quite fathom how having a few inches of braid below a spool of mono reduced stretch?
In fact we will have to agree to disagree on most of your last post Richard,... I certainly do not like to to play a barbel to the point of total exhaustion if it can be helped.

 

[Steve Walker]

I used braid in the old days for barbel as a hook link, but for me it was the lack of stretch that made me stop. I had too many of the thumping bites and on picking up the rod having the line part at the hook-link.

I use nylon now all the time and it far more reliable. I can also get a soft nylon that works. I for one don't think barbel are as "riggy" as carp and all the rigs moved over from the carp boys are pointless.

However some guys love rigs, it as big a part of they're fishing as catching, so why not let them have the fun.

My fun is having a good fight with a fish, and not simply winding them in on heavy gear designed for much bigger fish.

See; www.halfwayroundthebend.blogspot.co.uk A piece about heavy tackle used on the Trent. Just my thought's.

Sorry to disagree but nylon is not more reliable than braid if both are tied correctly.

I don't think the lack of stretch in braid argument is valid when only using approximately 2-3 inches of it in a combi link hook length.

I agree that barbel are certainly not ''riggy'',when they are feeding they can be caught on the most crude of rigs.

I do think you are missing the point as to why some of use these rigs,it's not because they are ''riggy'' it's because we are using strong terminal tackle that does the job efficiently and presents a bait well.

You still can't take anything for granted even when using heavy gear and terminal tackle on the Trent,there are so many sharp rocks on the bottom which will equally cut through both 8lbs mono or 15lbs coated braid.
If your braided hook length was parting when picking up the rod then I would suggest either your tackle was unbalanced,your knots need some attention or you were snagging on sharp rocks immediately on hooking a fish.

I have caught hundreds of Trent barbel on a fluoro/braid combi rig and don't suffer from the above situation..The only time a problem occurs is when fishing near sharp snags and then I try and avoid getting close to them.

It's still possible to enjoy the fight with heavy tackle but I like to have the confidence to exert pressure when necessary and get the barbel in the net as quickly as possible,I can't see the point in a prolonged fight on light tackle which results in an exhausted barbel which means a longer recovery time.We all know how they fight all the way to the net.

Each to his own of course and if you are happy with your tackle then great but please don't be judgemental and jump to the wrong conclusions as to why others use different gear to yours.

 

[Richard Barrett]

Steve.

The whole piece was just my opinion, but I guess until you try it, you will always have the same point of view. I have at least tried the heavy gear in the past, and managed to get past it.

Truly I don't like trapping much, and prefer to hunt. Sitting with two rods in the air waiting for the fish to turn up bores me. Im too impatient, but in a good way I think. Its why float fishing appeals as I'm busy all day, when ledgering I hold the rod mostly.

Again you assuming that the fight is protracted, and the barbel exhausted. Its just not so Steve, but until you use the gear I'm suggesting you will never know. Even on the float you're talking a few minutes. The right gear simply kills the fish very quickly. Its why a fly rod is the most effective type of rod for landing big fish like Marlin, Sailfish.

I'll try to explain. I guess you're thinking of long runs with the clutch going into meltdown. Not so, you screw the clutch down so it only goes at the limit of the tackle. Yes, its hairy as the rod bends, but its what there designed for. Saying playing fish to exhaustion on this tackle is what happens is just not true. I'm sure you respect your barbel just as much as i respect mine.

Also your more likely to snag with big feeders and leads, rather than the small ones I use. With a big bow and light leads the lead is mostly pulled out of the rocks. In an area I know is snaggy I use plasticine.

I appreciate and understand your views, but as someone doing it different on the same river your fishing, catching plenty and some big fish too, not losing fish that you suggest I should, why do you find it so difficult to apprehend that it works?

 

[Mike Hodgkiss]

I have given my opinion on the rig / end tackle issue earlier in this thread , [basically I think all this combi link braid / fluro hooklengths approach is superfluous / not required unless you are trying to fool a fish in extremely clear / shallow water and even then I'm not convinced it makes a huge difference ] Moving on to the TC of rods etc . I do think you need powerful rods to cast a long way and hook fish at a distance ,or cast a heavy lead in a strong flow , beyond that they are in my mind unnecessary .I never use rods above a 1.75 TC , I prefer Avon type rods with an all through action . Set the clutch right [ if using a fixed spool reel ] the fish pulling against a relatively bendy rod soon tires them out and hook pulls are rare .In short let the rod do the work .

 

[George Maltby]

I am of the opinion that the more that goes into a rig, the more there is for the fish to see.

I just fish a running ledger with the line straight through to the hook, and avoid hair rigging if possible. Mind you I wouldn't say I catch more than anybody else. In fact if this season is anything to go by...probably less!

I will however, use a backlead in clear swims, or when fishing more or less under the rod tip.

 

[Graham Elliott]

On Snaggy rocky rivers including the Wye, Trent etc I have no problem using a braid hooklink, although generally around 12".

I very rarely get cut off or snagged because.
1. My lead is sufficient to hit bottom and hold there, especially if the line from the rod is not tightened to the weight.


Gt80 is tough as I like for mainline. Although diameter in the used 12lb is fairly thick. With my mono mainline and short hooklinks its the mainline that needs to be tough.

You can't afford to allow the fish to run and run or you will get cutoffs. Rod needs to be kept high with the key to get the fish off the bottom....and keep it off if possible. Tight clutch, slackened off as the fish gets near the net.


Rigs very simple. Running lead on a breakaway clip, just in case. Hair rigged bait.

The longer the hooklink, more chance of cutoffs.
The need for a 4-6ft hooklink on BIG rivers ( as against low density smaller rivers single bait approach) means if you are feeding loosefeed you are getting it wrong.

 

[Richard Parsons]

I think braid's come a long way since the 'old days', Richard, in terms of quality and, thus, abrasion resistance.

 

[Steve Walker]

Steve.

The whole piece was just my opinion, but I guess until you try it, you will always have the same point of view. I have at least tried the heavy gear in the past, and managed to get past it.

Truly I don't like trapping much, and prefer to hunt. Sitting with two rods in the air waiting for the fish to turn up bores me. Im too impatient, but in a good way I think. Its why float fishing appeals as I'm busy all day, when ledgering I hold the rod mostly.

Again you assuming that the fight is protracted, and the barbel exhausted. Its just not so Steve, but until you use the gear I'm suggesting you will never know. Even on the float you're talking a few minutes. The right gear simply kills the fish very quickly. Its why a fly rod is the most effective type of rod for landing big fish like Marlin, Sailfish.

I'll try to explain. I guess you're thinking of long runs with the clutch going into meltdown. Not so, you screw the clutch down so it only goes at the limit of the tackle. Yes, its hairy as the rod bends, but its what there designed for. Saying playing fish to exhaustion on this tackle is what happens is just not true. I'm sure you respect your barbel just as much as i respect mine.

Also your more likely to snag with big feeders and leads, rather than the small ones I use. With a big bow and light leads the lead is mostly pulled out of the rocks. In an area I know is snaggy I use plasticine.

I appreciate and understand your views, but as someone doing it different on the same river your fishing, catching plenty and some big fish too, not losing fish that you suggest I should, why do you find it so difficult to apprehend that it works?

I assume you meant to say comprehend Richard?
Yes,I do comprehend your point of view, I have caught barbel on 6lbs line and also on float in the past.
The average weight of trent barbel has increased this last few years and now that light tackle would be seriously under gunned .
There have been several occasions when large barbel have taken me through the rocks but fortunately I have still landed them(sometimes).The 15lbs main line was damaged but still held,I doubt very much whether a lighter line would have survived intact.
As I have already said I have fished for barbel your way with lighter tackle but have decided to step up my gear because of the snags and size of the fish in the river.
Whose to say is doing it the right way?
If you are happy with your gear and technique then all well and good but don't be judgemental on anglers that are approaching it with a different method to yours as you have a habit of doing.