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Cat among the pigeons!

Richard Barrett

Richard Barrett

Senior Member
Hook links and barbel.

Been reading some recent barbel articles where the writers all seem to be following the carp anglers trend for braided hook links.

I believe that a good soft nylon ( extra limp ) is a good as anything. I say that as a fisherman who thinks regardless of what you use, the fish can, and do feel it. I don't think a soft link like braid makes any difference. I CANNOT prove it, but again believe the baiting situation is far more important than anything else.

Get the fish feeding without fear, or competing between themselves for me is the key. They must pick up all sorts on a flowing river, and eject them all the time. Bits of weed roots clay, silt stones all going down the big gob. Sometimes I think we get all caught up in "RIGS" when stealth and strategic baiting is much more important.

Myself I use 8lb supplex and 10lb Berkley XL. Both are clear, supple, and seem to NOT put fish off. Both also seem very tough, needed on the Trent.

So I'm asking, do you use braid, and if so, do you know why?
 
Richard, what matters is confidence in your approach. You clearly have that with the rig you use and others will do likewise with theirs. Not sure there is much to debate to be honest.

As it happens, I often use braid for the hook length and yes, I do know why.
 
guessing it depends on where your fishing
as 20lb coated braid is a lor better than any mono in a snaggy rock filled river
 
Whatever works for you Richard.
I agree that feeding(and location)are more important than hook link materials,if they get their heads down and feeding well then terminal tackle is low priority just as long as it is strong enough to land the expected fish in your particular river.
I'm using combi links on the Trent,a few inches of drennan sink braid near the hook tied to fluorocarbon.The theory is there is suppleness near the hook and the fluoro sinks fast and hugs the bottom.
I have confidence in this terminal tackle and have had reasonable success with it,if you have confidence in your rigs and done well then I would continue using it.
 
Richard,.. I don't believe you can generalise when it comes to fishing for barbel.
If you have a group of hungry fish in the swim that have become preoccupied with your feed then possibly any rig will catch. ( I've had decent doubles taking caster from a bait dropper for instance)
On the other hand, if your targeting a wary fish in gin clear water then your bait has to act as naturally as possible and I believe braid coupled with a back lead helps achieve this when fishing a static rig.
Other factors are snags etc, which can mean a compromise with end gear.
I can only go on what I see and how the fish react in differing conditions.
I watch fish most days when the river is clear and some can be pretty cute for no particular reason, so as has been said,... if the fish are confident,... no problem,... if there're not, ... then I need to be absolutely confident in my presentation which I believe allows me to fish more effectively.
 
I realised a while back that my preference for long hook lengths 4ft+ quite often was causing me problems on cast. I just couldn't be sure that the supple hook length choice of braid would present well, retrieval of my rig often showed the hook wrapped round the lead. I generally stalk on clear rivers and could see it cost me a few fish. It was at this point I realised using a length of stiff fluorocarbon helped act as a kind of boom, no tangles since.
I've watched fish dodge my hook bait like it's got a red flag on it in the past, very frustrating.
 
Ha, ... swings and roundabouts Stephen.
If a swim allows me to backlead then I don't need 4' of braid, more like 4" if I've 3' of good line pinned behind the lead.
I do go to a certain amount of trouble camouflaging my leads with glued substrate though.... not always necessary but it's the confidence thing again!
Couple that with the hook nicked onto the pva bag attached to the lead and Bobs yer uncle,.... still blank though!:D
 
Howard Cooke said:
Richard, what matters is confidence in your approach. You clearly have that with the rig you use and others will do likewise with theirs. Not sure there is much to debate to be honest.

As it happens, I often use braid for the hook length and yes, I do know why.
Click to expand...

I think Howard has hit the nail on the head , however I would say that some of these complex end rigs catch more anglers than fish i.e. if it looks ' scientific' and complex it must be good .Some anglers want supple end rigs others stiff , can they both be correct ?
The issue I have with braid is that it has a tendency to cut and can in certain circumstances damage fish . It is also seems to be unreliable in terms of breaking strain , many anglers using high breaking strain braid as it snaps at a point significantly lower than its claimed BS . This in my opinion is it's greatest failing and the reason why I don't use it .
 
Dave Taylor said:
Ha, ... swings and roundabouts Stephen.
If a swim allows me to backlead then I don't need 4' of braid, more like 4" if I've 3' of good line pinned behind the lead.
I do go to a certain amount of trouble camouflaging my leads with glued substrate though.... not always necessary but it's the confidence thing again!
Couple that with the hook nicked onto the pva bag attached to the lead and Bobs yer uncle,.... still blank though!:D
Click to expand...

I do both in bright daylight! Don't want to give buggers any chance to spook.
Had a screaming run this morning, lifted into and it felt like the plug but moving. Turned out to be a Chub of all of 4lb, not an ounce more connected to a heavy dose of weed. Those first 5-10 seconds I thought I'd done it, I'm ashamed to say I sighed when I saw those white lips. Still, fish is a fish.
 
Mike Hodgkiss said:
...............................
The issue I have with braid is that it has a tendency to cut and can in certain circumstances damage fish..........................
Click to expand...

I can only judge on my own personal experience and I have never found this to be the case.
Using a couple of inches of supple braid at the hook tied with an albright knot to 3-4'of fluorocarbon I've caught numerous barbel without the braid damaging them.
If I had witnessed braid damaging any barbel then I certainly wouldn't be using it.
 
Mike Hodgkiss said:
The issue I have with braid is that it has a tendency to cut and can in certain circumstances damage fish
Click to expand...

As a long time carp angler I have been using coated and uncoated braid 95% of the time for hook links for god knows how many years and so have all my pals and never seen or heard of and cuts or mouth damage ?

hooks on the other hand can cause damage in particular long shank and barbless
 
I find it strange that some folk get all uptight and aggressive when you ask them WHY they are doing something? Not all, but some.
After all, this is a forum for ideas and information, as well as a bit of banter isn't it?
Mike has it right. Some use a rig that brings its own complications, compounded by the need then to add more components. Of all the fish that could and do fall for a simple set up, the barbel is number one. Free-line if you can, single shot on the line, small running lead, simple as you can make it.
 
I didnt know they were ? as only just recently returned to barbel fishing after 55 years

but what I do know is carp lots of lake owners who spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on their fish ban barbless hooks because they have found the barbless hook having no micro barb to hold it in place moves around and causes damage and you must remember these fish get caught regularly and so the effects can easily be seen and monitored I believe one of the largest commercial fisheries in this country is Cemex and for a couple of years they went down the barbless hook route banning all barbed hooks the increase in mouth damage forced them to reverse that rule now its micro barbed hooks only on their waters most of the French commercial water found the same
On modern hooks the barbs are so small you need a magnifying glass to see them but its enough to stop them moving
Hook moving means twisting within the mouth, the barb grabs hold better and prevents this happening. If that makes sense
 
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Richard Barrett said:
I find it strange that some folk get all uptight and aggressive when you ask them WHY they are doing something? Not all, but some.
After all, this is a forum for ideas and information, as well as a bit of banter isn't it?
Mike has it right. Some use a rig that brings its own complications, compounded by the need then to add more components. Of all the fish that could and do fall for a simple set up, the barbel is number one. Free-line if you can, single shot on the line, small running lead, simple as you can make it.
Click to expand...

I think it can often depend on how something is phrased. In your opening post, you basically set out the approach you take and how you are very confident with it etc. You then throw in a question about the use of a braid, asking if people know why they use it! I would suggest that folk on this forum are skilled enough to know why they use braid.

Anyway, you might have got a different response if you were asking for advice i.e. the merits of braid versus mono as hooklength material for example. Secondly, there are certain subjects which I am sure you know, always give rise to debate, often fierce. The use of braid is one such subject. Thirdly, fierce and sometimes "aggressive" responses are somewhat inevitable and a natural consequence of debating where strong differences of opinion exist. And lastly, I wouldn't actually put any of the responses so far into the uptight or aggressive category.
 
Richard - and the title of the thread is? You clearly didn't anticipate any contrary views. Contrary to your own, that is.
 
'do you use braid, and if so, do you know why?'

Yes and yes. I find 4-6" inches of 12-15lb braid tied to 2.5 - 6ft of 12 or 16lb mono works very well. The braid allows more natural movement and the mono helps provide abrasion resistance. It's a set-up that works very well for me.

I have never noticed using a short length of braid on the hook link to cause barbel any damage, unlike silty water tench however and I no longer use it for tench fishing on the waters I fish.

Most of the anglers on this forum seem to put a lot of thought into their presentation it seems, but we all have very differing perspectives - personally I wouldn't ever dream of using a low diameter line like Supplex in 8lb for barbel fishing on the Trent. Having used Supplex on occasion for hooklengths for tench fishing and therefore being aware of its capability's I'm pretty certain if I used it on the Trent it would result in me losing some fish and leaving them with a hooklength length trailing from their mouths. Is that something you've experienced?
 
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