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braid for mainline

Looks like we have touched a nerve Graham. Im not one for a useless argument as much as you know and my self we have put these facts down to experience. We could go on uselessly about spiderwire/ PP but the make up of both gives a greater ability to cut a fish than say mono/fluoro, thats a fact.
Your last statement. . So? Also states to me what a character you are......
Yes we will just have to disagree and people can judge from our experience.
 
No nerve Jon.
I just prefer information given to be proven fact or based on ones own long term experience of the item in question, not conjecture.

The So was based on the relevance to the debate regarding the use of pp as a hooklink. I am sure your rigs are very safe and I am sure you are an excellent angler. But unless you have personal experience of what you are talking about it, its not valid. I have tried to explain the difference between original spiderwire and PP but you have chosen to ignore it. Did you ever see the original product?

I think Richards comment/observation is very valid....

Graham's experience is arguing against the logic I originally read into article, and without scientific evidence one way or another I am now of the opinion that the relative difference between mono/braided mainline/braided hooklength is negligible when under tension and no more likely to cause damage than a small hook or a lightly hooked fish that tears free.

Regarding the use of tubing etc. I would vouch that probably one angler in 50 uses it as normal on all UK rivers, and if it's not made safe with the correct stops further up the line would cause more fish loss than most things.

Maybe you can give relevant info on that. I wouldn't comment because I don't find the need to use it or have experience of using it.

I am happy to be judged on my experience.

Graham
 
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Graham Elliott said:
I just prefer information given to be proven fact or based on ones own long term experience of the item in question, not conjecture.
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Hi Graham, I can't entirely agree with the above statement...
I have absolutely no experience of using lines with breaking strains of 55lb (other than, maybe, loaned gear on the occasional sea fishing trip) as recommended on the first page of this thread, but a mixture of common sense and gut feeling tells me that this is a recipe for disaster with regard to tethering fish to UNSEEN snags.

I have to admit that I'm not entirely comfortable using the 12lb mono that I do on the Wye for this very reason, but as you know the thickness of the line is required for abrasion resistance. I would prefer to be using a slightly lower breaking strain to allow a possibly tethered barbel a better chance of breaking free, on the rare occasions when you are forced to pull for a break when a fish has become irretrievably snagged. Personally, if I have more than one breakage in a particular swim (if a fish was attached or not) I move on.

Having said all that, in my forty-odd years of barbel fishing experience I've only ever seen one dead tethered barbel, but obviously they would normally remain out of view. I hope I never see another, because it was a horrible sight. And I don't know if the line tethering this dead barbel was braid or mono, or the line's breaking strain. All I do know is that the barbel was tethered and dead, thus proving beyond doubt that barbel can become tethered and dead! Surely it's common sense that this is more likely to happen when using lines with absurdly high breaking strains?
 
Its all about common sense but alot of anglers seem not have any when it comes to chasing that big fish and its right through specimen groups
 
Tim, I don't think the suggestion of 55lb braid was a serious one and it appeared to me that 30lb was the max BS suggested.

My own experience using braid (PP 20lb or PP Super Slick 15lb) is that I have never witnessed or experienced any damage to a barbel and in fact, whenever I have lost a fish it has either been a hook pull or a flurocarbon hook length that has snapped. Any angling related damage I have seen on a barbel has been predominantly in the mouth and sometimes the size 18 hook is still there.

It seems to me that, given the number of people that use braid as mainline (just going by the various threads and posts on this forum), the strength of opinion and feeling we generally see here on a wide range of topics, if there was an issue concerning its danger to fish there would have been more spoken of it. On this forum people have from time to time posted pictures of damaged fish and folk have tried to work out the cause. Maybe I have missed it but I don't ever recall an incident where braid damage (mainline or hook length) was reported on here. And given the amount of barbel we members, collectively, catch over a season including all the repeat catches, it would surely have come to light by now. That isn't to say there won't be some isolated incidents.

But as anglers we do have to fundamentally accept we put the fish we seek to catch to some degree of danger/distress so the moral high ground is a place even I could happily visit with my terrible vertigo affliction. I never fish close to snags either unless I am totally confident I can steer the fish away.
 
Tim Lennon said:
Hi Graham, I can't entirely agree with the above statement...
I have absolutely no experience of using lines with breaking strains of 55lb (other than, maybe, loaned gear on the occasional sea fishing trip) as recommended on the first page of this thread, but a mixture of common sense and gut feeling tells me that this is a recipe for disaster with regard to tethering fish to UNSEEN snags.

I have to admit that I'm not entirely comfortable using the 12lb mono that I do on the Wye for this very reason, but as you know the thickness of the line is required for abrasion resistance. I would prefer to be using a slightly lower breaking strain to allow a possibly tethered barbel a better chance of breaking free, on the rare occasions when you are forced to pull for a break when a fish has become irretrievably snagged. Personally, if I have more than one breakage in a particular swim (if a fish was attached or not) I move on.


Having said all that, in my forty-odd years of barbel fishing experience I've only ever seen one dead tethered barbel, but obviously they would normally remain out of view. I hope I never see another, because it was a horrible sight. And I don't know if the line tethering this dead barbel was braid or mono, or the line's breaking strain. All I do know is that the barbel was tethered and dead, thus proving beyond doubt that barbel can become tethered and dead! Surely it's common sense that this is more likely to happen when using lines with absurdly high breaking strains?
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Tim, whilst I agree with a lot of what you say, I think you are being unfair to Graham by taking the comment you have hi-lighted out of context. Graham was referring to the statement that braid acts like cheese wire and cuts and damages fish as a consequence. He stated that in all his many years of using braid, he had never seen fish damaged in that way as a result of that. When you consider he has many years of guiding behind him, as well as personal experience....that's an awful lot of barbel that have been landed to back that statement up...an awful lot of which would have been while using braid.

What he was saying was that others should only make claims to the contrary if they have definite proof of such damage PERSONALLY...and only if that damage was seen on a lot more than the one occasion claimed....which anyway may (or may not) have happened whatever line material was in use.

If you are of the opinion that a tethered fish is a dead fish, and that even 12lb mono gives you cause for concern....might I suggest that you use barbless hooks? A barbel will not stay tethered for long then, so that should put your mind at rest.

Cheers, Dave.
 
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Hi Howard. Personally, I would consider 30lb breaking strain as absurd for barbel fishing for the reasons I gave above.

Hi Dave. I wasn't intending to misquote Graham. Indeed, I agree with him regarding the cheese wire effect. I've only ever seen one barbel whose flank had obviously been cut by line, and I don't know if the culprit in this instance was braid or mono. Re my quote of Graham's, I was simply attempting to point out that you may not need personal experience of using an item to have a valid opinion on its suitability.
 
Tim Lennon said:
I was simply attempting to point out that you may not need personal experience of using an item to have a valid opinion on its suitability.
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I've no personal experience of leaving my testicles behind on a rusty barbed wire fence. However, I'm quite certain that I don't want to do it.;):D
 
Thanks Guys,

But don't see where this 55lb came in? However, I would say that if you used it, you would probably land more fish as less would be lost. (not very sporting is it though)

Tim
If its accepted that mono is generally more abrasion resistant than braid, then possibly a fish hung up on a snag might be able to break it easier with it's action against the snag. ( I know - I'm pushing it! )


Chris. I did say "an item" so you would need to leave more than 2 testis to be able to comment.:D And I would say that someone has to have experienced it or something similar sometime to be able to say it's not a pleasant experience..
 
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Chris Jones said:
I've no personal experience of leaving my testicles behind on a rusty barbed wire fence. However, I'm quite certain that I don't want to do it.;):D
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You might if you had just hurdled a fence in a bid to escape a rampaging lunatic with a machete (or a Lone Angler landing net pole).
 
Tim

NO problem, thought it was implied I had said it.

Tim, I use 12lb mono on Wye as per, and we need to in many of the swims, If you did go much lower it would lead to more breakages on fish and more hung up fish.

I think they probably find it hard to break even 6lb line in the water to be honest.

Graham
 
There you are Graham, this is from an article on fishing magic by the man himself Dave Chilton, Boss of KRYSTON.

"BRAIDED MAINLINES NOT RECOMMENDED!"

You will be aware that I have written at length about properly designed braided lines manufactured for hooklengths. There are now braided lines on the market made for use as reel line or mainline. These lines are of an extremely low diameter and should never be used as hooklengths! Some are braided very tight with an extremely high pick count to reduce the diameter and are constructed too tight to flatten. Some are lines made from filaments which have been fused together using modern-day resins. All braided reel lines should be used on the reel and not the hook due to their cheese-cutting abilities. There are many braided reel or casting lines available, Fireline, Fusion, Spiderwire, Suffix, plus many, many more. Once again I would recommend only purpose designed braided lines for use as hooklengths.

Extremely tight super-low-diameter braided reel lines should be avoided and if braided reel lines are used at all they should always be used with a buffer. In other words at least 18 feet of mono tied to the end of the braid. Anglers using braided reel lines tied straight to the swivel on the rig are only waiting for an accident to happen. Should any fish reach a snag, the angler would be forced to pull for a break with the braid snapping anywhere along its length.

regards

Jon
 
Jon Frisby said:
There you are Graham, this is from an article on fishing magic by the man himself Dave Chilton, Boss of KRYSTON.

"BRAIDED MAINLINES NOT RECOMMENDED!"

You will be aware that I have written at length about properly designed braided lines manufactured for hooklengths. There are now braided lines on the market made for use as reel line or mainline. These lines are of an extremely low diameter and should never be used as hooklengths! Some are braided very tight with an extremely high pick count to reduce the diameter and are constructed too tight to flatten. Some are lines made from filaments which have been fused together using modern-day resins. All braided reel lines should be used on the reel and not the hook due to their cheese-cutting abilities. There are many braided reel or casting lines available, Fireline, Fusion, Spiderwire, Suffix, plus many, many more. Once again I would recommend only purpose designed braided lines for use as hooklengths.

Extremely tight super-low-diameter braided reel lines should be avoided and if braided reel lines are used at all they should always be used with a buffer. In other words at least 18 feet of mono tied to the end of the braid. Anglers using braided reel lines tied straight to the swivel on the rig are only waiting for an accident to happen. Should any fish reach a snag, the angler would be forced to pull for a break with the braid snapping anywhere along its length.

regards

Jon
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And he of course has absolutley no vested interest in promoting "specialist hooklinks" does he Jon?? :eek:
 
Yes Jon I read that on FM some time ago when it was first published.

And you might want to add the comments I made at the time on the thread.

Boss of Kryston eh. As their Main Key Advert goes.

World leader in Specialist Hooklinks

No self interest there then.......;):eek:

ADDED later........beat me to it Crooky.!
 
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Jon, I know it's not your article, it was written by a chap who owns a company that manufactures and sells specialist braided hook lengths (and, leadcore, promoted for use in rivers without offering any advice on their safe use blah, blah, blah), but I am curious why the buffer needs to be of "at least 18ft"?
 
I used to use PP as main line but this season i switched to Whiplash Pro on the recommendation of it from a mate (Bob Beal) and i have been very pleased with it. i've always used a 20lb amnesia leader of 3-4 feet in length as it's though and has superb abrasion resistance qualities, far more so than mono and braid which is essential on a number of swims on the Trent due to the rocks. The rocks on the river will cut through braid or mono far easier then amnesia and as long as you check the leader every few casts for wear and change it if you feel any then you should never have a problem, it's just common sense and thinking of the fish welfare really.
As for hook lengths i use combi rigs of Kryston Incognito and Drennan Sink Braid in the day and in the night coated braid (Sufix Camo Skin or Camfusion) with a couple of inches above the hook stripped to give the bait a more realistic supple presentation.
 
Once in the company of no less than Trefor West I witnessed a total noddy on the Avon play a Barbel to near death then when it was wallowing downstream try to drag it monstrous feeder and all through a mass of weed and tether it good and proper.
Tref gave the guy a fairly good version of what my old man called a Scarborough warning and I went for a swim as noddy gave no indication of doing anything about his victim. His line was about 5/6 lb nylon but it held that very exhausted fish as well as a ships hawser. When I fish the Mole, Kennet or Wey I use 30 lb braid when I used to fish the Trent I used 55lb just because the Trent, like some other rivers is hard on line. Regarding Spiderwire I totally agree with Graham it was/is grim stuff in my opinion and cannot compare with Powerpro.
When anyone starts to preach to me about their 25 years experience I often wonder if it really is 25 years experience or 1 years experience 25 times. My experience tells me no one is right about everything.
 
if you use what you think is a 100% safe rig ( I dont believe that exists ) and cast it into a 100% dangerous place ( they do exist ) what do you reckon will happen ?
 
I guess that would mean the rig can't be 100% safe as the determination of its safely must be by reference to the place it is intended to be fished.
 
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