Birmingham Anglers Association

[Chris Bourne]

I now pay a bit extra at another club and get to night fish,so far this season have only seen another 8 fisherman on the banks during daytime,2 of those turned out to be eastern europeans who the baliff turfed off,at night not seen another sole.
When i was in the BAA used to fish to about 11,so did many others,the only place where people used to pack up and leave on time seemd to be at holt lock,have to leave there at whatever time sunset is,so still a bit of daylight left!
They should be more worried about the people fishing with no cards......the problem is they know if a baliff comes along all they will do is ask them to leave,dont know what would happen if they refused to leave as doubt the police would show up these days.

 

[Neil Smart]

There are two or three problem with that way of thinking that I can think of Albert, off the top of my head

One and two....why should I, or any one else, be restricted to day fishing only....just because you prefer to fish during the day? I fish a river whereby the vast majority of the bigger fish are caught at night...not just because everyone fishes at night (in fact the majority of anglers on this water fish during the day)...but because the bigger fish at least prefer coming out to play at night on that river...fact. I know it varies from water to water, with some fishing better during the day, but there are an awful lot that fish better at night. So...your plan would be a tad unfair on the anglers on those types of rivers, when you think about it. And what about the anglers who have a work/family situation which mainly restricts them to short trips at night ? I am sure you don't really want to put an end to their relaxation fella

Three...how can you imagine that removing all the legal anglers from the bank at night will make it harder for the illegals? It's only the presence of the legals that stops most rivers being overrun by illegals at night. Very few clubs can mount an effective bailiff crew to patrol constantly at night...especially these days when the poachers are often in gangs and are not averse to indulging in a spot of violence towards anyone who challenges them. You don't see anywhere near so many of them on waters that are regularly night fished by club members though Albert. Fact mate

Nasty lot, some of 'em Albert

Cheers, Dave.

The point I think Albert was making, and I agree with is that night fishing could be counter productive to the welfare of the water, in that if there is no solitude for barbel they just might consider upping sticks.
The reason the bigger fish come 'out to play' as you state is entirely that they feel safe to do so.
Are we of the opinion that if we pursue our quarry to the extent that we snag fish for them on small rivers where there is little chance of landing them, and add to that night fishing?
Can you see my/ our/ point?
Or shall we blame the Otter

 

[Steve M Brown]

Its very sad to watch the slow decline of a once huge club like the BAA largely due to its ostrich like approach to change. I've been a member for years and for sure the only way it will change is from the inside ie via AGM's and changes of committee personnel.
Unfortunately there are very few anglers who want to get involved in the running of a club (with one notable exception!) the vast majority just want to go fishing!

The BAA's idea of moving with the times was to recently introduce a complete ban on livebaiting!

You can't knock John Williams for his dedication to the cause but he really has no idea what goes on after dark and even more sadly he has no inclination to learn - take a walk down Marlcliff or Salford Priors its often like the wild west I gave up fishing there many years ago! I'm sure the 6 anglers Steve kicked off Kinver water recently for night fishing did'nt have to travel far to find an accommodating BAA stretch - if they could get in!

As regards riparian owners on lots of their stretches the BAA are the riparian owner and therefore it would be very easy to set up a limited night fishing season permit as most forward thinking clubs have already. The BAA, with so many different waters could even set up dedicated night fishing syndicates on its more popular stretches, which would probably go some way to solving the currently unregulated free for all - I would love to know just how many night permits they actually sell

Cheers

Steve

 

[Lee Poultney]

Thanks for the Pm Dan.

 

[David Gauntlett]

The point I think Albert was making, and I agree with is that night fishing could be counter productive to the welfare of the water, in that if there is no solitude for barbel they just might consider upping sticks.
The reason the bigger fish come 'out to play' as you state is entirely that they feel safe to do so.
Are we of the opinion that if we pursue our quarry to the extent that we snag fish for them on small rivers where there is little chance of landing them, and add to that night fishing?
Can you see my/ our/ point?
Or shall we blame the Otter

Neil, I think the 'could be's and 'might's', which seems to be the basis of the logic behind your views on the probable outcome of night fishing for barbel....are at odds with the facts of what actually happens. The facts are that on all the rivers that I am aware of locally where that black and arcane practice is carried out, the 'welfare of the water' does not seem to have suffered one jot. Certainly on the river I spend my time on, the fish themselves are bigger than ever, and so apparently healthier, and in all the years I have fished for them have shown no signs whatsoever of 'upping sticks'. I dare say if you ask all the other anglers throughout the country who carry on in this deplorable manner, you may find a similar situation exists. Excepting those ravaged by deteriorating water quality and/or otters and foreign nationals fishing for the pot and/or profit of course.....

Thinking about it, I suppose you possibly COULD convince them to 'up sticks' or cause the 'welfare of the water' to suffer....if you fished for them during the day. Because then of course, you would not be fishing for them in the open, where they naturally feed....you would be fishing for them in their safe havens, the cover to which they retreat during daylight hours in order to hide from the perceived or race memory of the threat from above...and from otters. Yes....I can see that might work

When you say "Are we of the opinion that if we pursue our quarry to the extent that we snag fish for them on small rivers where there is little chance of landing them, and add to that night fishing?"....I am not entirely sure what rexactly that means. However, taking a stab in the dark, as it were, I assume you are asking whether I feel that snag fishing in small rivers, with little chance of landing fish....and night fishing...are ethical practices. I have already stated my views on night fishing. As to the other point...I can't imagine why anyone would deliberately do that, because there would be absolutely no point in hooking a fish you had little chance of landing...but yes, it would in my view be entirely unethical. I have certainly never done it, but then, I tend to fish at night, when there would be no reason to do that....

Fact is Neil, we all have our view and opinions on things, and I feel that is good...it's how things should be, we should all state our views on things and debate issues. What is NOT good, in my opinion, is seeking to impose those views on other people. But, that's just me mate. Do you see my point?

If you wish Neil, I will send you pictures of my latest 'night caught' brace from my little river, with the assurance that 'no fish were injured during the making of this film'

Take it easy mate, it's only fishing

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Kevin Kemp]

If I had the time to night fish I would, or at least fish till midnight at the peak of summer, on the baa waters I fish, I rarely see others passed 6pm and many returning back to the car park as I make my way along the banks , I find in most cases baa rivers under fished , I'm just off down the Severn and I bet we will have the place to ourselves again,

I think for clubs it's a lot to do with Health and Safety, as well as wether the owner wants the hassle, and it should be if you fish at night it's at your own risk
Each to there own

 

[Neil Smart]

Neil, I think the 'could be's and 'might's', which seems to be the basis of the logic behind your views on the probable outcome of night fishing for barbel....are at odds with the facts of what actually happens. The facts are that on all the rivers that I am aware of locally where that black and arcane practice is carried out, the 'welfare of the water' does not seem to have suffered one jot. Certainly on the river I spend my time on, the fish themselves are bigger than ever, and so apparently healthier, and in all the years I have fished for them have shown no signs whatsoever of 'upping sticks'. I dare say if you ask all the other anglers throughout the country who carry on in this deplorable manner, you may find a similar situation exists. Excepting those ravaged by deteriorating water quality and/or otters and foreign nationals fishing for the pot and/or profit of course.....

Thinking about it, I suppose you possibly COULD convince them to 'up sticks' or cause the 'welfare of the water' to suffer....if you fished for them during the day. Because then of course, you would not be fishing for them in the open, where they naturally feed....you would be fishing for them in their safe havens, the cover to which they retreat during daylight hours in order to hide from the perceived or race memory of the threat from above...and from otters. Yes....I can see that might work

When you say "Are we of the opinion that if we pursue our quarry to the extent that we snag fish for them on small rivers where there is little chance of landing them, and add to that night fishing?"....I am not entirely sure what rexactly that means. However, taking a stab in the dark, as it were, I assume you are asking whether I feel that snag fishing in small rivers, with little chance of landing fish....and night fishing...are ethical practices. I have already stated my views on night fishing. As to the other point...I can't imagine why anyone would deliberately do that, because there would be absolutely no point in hooking a fish you had little chance of landing...but yes, it would in my view be entirely unethical. I have certainly never done it, but then, I tend to fish at night, when there would be no reason to do that....

Fact is Neil, we all have our view and opinions on things, and I feel that is good...it's how things should be, we should all state our views on things and debate issues. What is NOT good, in my opinion, is seeking to impose those views on other people. But, that's just me mate. Do you see my point?

If you wish Neil, I will send you pictures of my latest 'night caught' brace from my little river, with the assurance that 'no fish were injured during the making of this film'

Take it easy mate, it's only fishing

Cheers, Dave.

Well I wouldn't want to impose my will on anyone Dave, but I was merely making the point that in my opinion, night fishing, on smaller rivers especially could be detrimental to the numbers of barbel that would feel relatively safe.
How on earth can you support night fishing after the trauma that both you and the nocturnal species had to endure the other night is beyond me

My comment with regard to 'snag' fishing, and without pointing any fingers, only recently the great and the good admitted just that, and admitted that the 'lost' more than they landed, I wonder if those Barbel would hang around much after that?

Anyway I don't like night fishing personally, and never done that well, first hour after sunset and that's it, would support a blanket ban

There you go, 'revert' to type,...next?

 

[Alex Gowney]

People who dislike night fishing generally do support a blanket ban and often fail to consider that those of us who fish at night do so because we actually prefer the experience to daylight fishing. Irrespective of the results.

If a club is worried about "round the clock pressure" from night fishing (an often quoted reason for non lovers of the dark!) then a rule could be introduced whereby night fishing was allowed for 3 days with no daylight fishing allowed, then reversed for the next 4. A sort of 3 on 4 off like some shift patterns are. It is strange how the welfare of the fish only seem's to result in someone advocating a ban on night fishing, never the other way around..

Perosnally I much prefer to fish at night, the riverbank on a warm, starry summer night is far more enjoyable than a hot, blazing afternoon. At least in my opinion, but I would not wish to deny the daylight lovers their enjoyment either.

As for BAA, well it makes little difference whether they endorse night fishing or not in my experience. On one well know stretch the bailiff checked my ticket at about 8 p.m in August 2010 and settled in to a swim about 200 yards upstream. I fished until midnight and the bailiff was still fishing as I walked back to the car..

 

[Gary Downie]

Due to work, family and other commitments some have no choice but to night fish and by night fish I mean fishing well into dark. (midnight+)

I would be lucky to get out once a fornight if wasn't for the late evening sessions.

I also believe having responsible members nightfishing a water would help with other 'problems'.

 

[Kevin Kemp]

Just got back, fished well into dark, not a sole about on a massive stretch, the Rivers are empty most of the time,

 

[David Gauntlett]

You are a bad man Neil I think a kidnapping and forced night fishing session would be a suitable punishment

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Joe Fletcher]

I have been having a frustrating debate with BAA secretary, John Williams, recently regarding their antiquated night fishing arrangement.

For those that are unaware, the BAA used to be able to claim they were the largest angling club in the country boasting 70,000 members and huge matches. Now before I continue I want to point out that at £30 per year the association provides excellent value for money and a wide range of venues to fish. However, the club has a ‘cornershop’ mentality that refuses to adapt to the ever changing world of angling. Over the past couple of decades membership has fallen dramatically and a look at their available waters shows their match calendar is tiny in comparison to times gone by.

Currently, night permits are available for a limited number of venues and must be purchased in advance. You can either apply in person at their HQ or submit a postal application which takes several days to turnaround. My circumstances (and I’m sure others) mean that this arrangement is very inflexible. I live about 500m from the River Avon meaning a 90 min round trip to head office is nonsensical. Furthermore their opening hours are 9:30am - 2:00pm Monday to Friday, which does little to help the working person. Add a new a baby/work commitments then it means that I am usually unable to plan a visit in advance to take advantage of the postal system. Quite often it’s a case of thinking I’m in a position to go later/now, usually after work meaning evening sessions are the way to go yet I am unable to obtain a permit to fish after dark.

The crux of the BAA’s argument is that they like to limit the number of anglers on their lakes, particularly Coppice (Carp pool) and he acknowledged that they sell very few night permits on rivers in comparison. I suggested that they could leave the system as it was for stillwaters since it appeared to work but offer a new yearly permit at a higher price that included night fishing on rivers. However, this fell on deaf ears with him claiming they would not know who was fishing where and when to which I replied I think you have very little control on who is fishing your rivers anyway. Furthermore, I tried to point out that there are miles of rivers going unfished and that Barbel anglers make up a large proportion of the people on the rivers currently and perhaps the association should be more accommodating to the needs of this section of its membership or risk losing them. Mr Williams as yet to reply to this since he no doubt thinks there hundreds of anglers lining the banks trotting maggots as it was in 1985 and there’s no problem. I find it so frustrating!

Anyway, enough of me ranting and raving. Do you think it’s a waste of time (I'm sure it is) or do any of you have further suggestions or contacts that could help drag this club into the modern era?

Lee I dont know if you are aware that the Evesham festival is on this bank holiday w/end .
The BAA will have a stand at the show . Dont know if they will be just taking new memberships . Or who will be on the stand ? and weather they would be able to answer any questions as to why they have such a problem with anglers night fishing .
Perhaps if enough of us were to turn up and ask the same question .
Perhaps they might bring it up at there next commitee meeting

 

[Alex Gowney]

Lee I dont know if you are aware that the Evesham festival is on this bank holiday w/end .
The BAA will have a stand at the show . Dont know if they will be just taking new memberships . Or who will be on the stand ? and weather they would be able to answer any questions as to why they have such a problem with anglers night fishing .
Perhaps if enough of us were to turn up and ask the same question .
Perhaps they might bring it up at there next commitee meeting

You may be right Joe but I wouldn't bank on it. Clubs like BAA couldn't give a toss for barbel anglers, they take your money right enough but match fishing is their only real interest.

BAA are not too flexible in other respects either. A couple of years ago I was buying two tickets, Newlands AC and BAA, for a friends lad. Both books were already valid and the lad had turned 16 after the start date of the ticket, meaning he was 15 and thus a junior from when the ticket was valid from. Newlands AC said he was only to pay junior rate but BAA insisted he pay full rate as I was purchasing the ticket after his 16th birthday. They were not interested in the fact that had I bought the ticket in January he would have qualified as a junior. Technically I suppose they were right but Newlands AC actually showed a bit of customer friendliness. BAA didn't and not sure who I spoke to on the phone that day but he was a right miserable sod.

Apart from their excellent value ticket BAA are not a club I admire.

 

[Neil Smart]

You are a bad man Neil I think a kidnapping and forced night fishing session would be a suitable punishment

Cheers, Dave.

I'd be fine with that Dave just as long someone would sit next to me and operate the lights, land the fish, feed the swim and serve coffee and biscuits.

 

[Neil Smart]

You may be right Joe but I wouldn't bank on it. Clubs like BAA couldn't give a toss for barbel anglers, they take your money right enough but match fishing is their only real interest.

BAA are not too flexible in other respects either. A couple of years ago I was buying two tickets, Newlands AC and BAA, for a friends lad. Both books were already valid and the lad had turned 16 after the start date of the ticket, meaning he was 15 and thus a junior from when the ticket was valid from. Newlands AC said he was only to pay junior rate but BAA insisted he pay full rate as I was purchasing the ticket after his 16th birthday. They were not interested in the fact that had I bought the ticket in January he would have qualified as a junior. Technically I suppose they were right but Newlands AC actually showed a bit of customer friendliness. BAA didn't and not sure who I spoke to on the phone that day but he was a right miserable sod.

Apart from their excellent value ticket BAA are not a club I admire.

I think I can guess

But the heritage of BAA is steeped with match angling and that is still there thinking, the work parties do great work, not to the taste of us barbel anglers perhaps, but on the whole I think the club should be proud of it's heritage and it is still going strong, not perfect perhaps, but be careful what you wish for.

Yes they can improve in certain areas, and their customer service needs improving, they lost a good lady last year who did have a good manner.

John Williams can be a bit dour, but he seems to care passionately about BAA, scratch beneath the surface and he is very switched on, especially when it comes to issues such as the proposed hydro schemes that would impact on the river eco system.

Get involved if you want the best out of the club would be my advice.

 

[Alex Gowney]

I'm sure he is a good bloke really, just didn't come across as being too friendly. No big deal, compared to Banbury AA Birmingham AA are positively welcoming to non match anglers! I am not particularly wishing for anything Neil, just making observations and as you point out they have a great heritage and it's possibly the best value ticket available in the UK. I think the fact that Newlands AC were so customer friendly highlighted the dour, couldn't give a toss attitude I encountered with BAA

 

[Neil Smart]

I'm sure he is a good bloke really, just didn't come across as being too friendly. No big deal, compared to Banbury AA Birmingham AA are positively welcoming to non match anglers! I am not particularly wishing for anything Neil, just making observations and as you point out they have a great heritage and it's possibly the best value ticket available in the UK. I think the fact that Newlands AC were so customer friendly highlighted the dour, couldn't give a toss attitude I encountered with BAA

Don't really know what it is with some angling clubs, why they have this persona of being unfriendly and unhelpful is odd, but it seems to be more often the case than not, sadly.

 

[Steve Williams]

but be careful what you wish for.

Amen to that....

Steve

 

[Craig Wood]

On a few BAA stretches night fishing is not allowed due to possible contests the following day.

No one can really complain when all you pay is £30 a year. They have to cater for EVERYONE but it is true they give more consideration to match anglers as thats where most revenue comes from.

I used to be a bailiff for them some years ago and no matter how hard i tried to get some things changed or to report problems the committee never listened. They are stuck in old habits which is no surprise considering most of the committee are aged over retirement age..

I live down south now and are a member of a very good fishing club where most of the stretches of river and lakes are Bailiffed all the time and the upkeep of the venues is first class but it costs alot more than £30 odd pound a year.

 

[John Glover]

I am totally in favour of night fishing for many of the reasons stated before here. In my experience as an angler and a bailiff there is no extra pressure on a river as people will fish when they want to and not have to cram it in to fixed hours. Night fishing is a different discipline and requires a lot of organisation and a bit more of a methodical approach. Not to mention a higher sense of caution and having your wits about you. That alone will put a large majority off doing it! I would say the night fishing actually relieves the pressure on the day shift at my local waters.

I agree that people who work 9-5 Mon -Fri should be better catered for and no self interest there as I am a shift worker. The biggest pro of course is your members are your eyes and ears of a club, so any related night issues in my experience are significantly reduced by your own people being on the bank. I would say there are more issues surrounding the daytime anglers than the night brigade.

I have no reason to think that barbel or the habitat are affected more by night fishing than day fishing and have not seen anything to the detriment of night fishing, so any comment that it is or could be must be treated as purely anecdotal unless someone actually has some scientific evidence to back this up?!

Right, sundown in an hour, finish my pint and off to the river....