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Barbless Hooks

Why take the risk?

Ok if you're "pleasure fishing" for small barbel.

If you only get maybe a couple of dozen fish a year like me, then you don't want to leave anything to chance.

As usual, horses for courses.

Regards,
Jeff
 
hi all,
after losing 2 fish in a session a couple of years ago, to hook pulls, on a water where 1 fish in a session is a good result, on barbless hooks, i am firmly in the barbeb camp
cheers, leon
 
i used barbless hooks for carp on what i believe was (and still is) a barbless only specimen water. I noticed in the fish i caught that the hooks were tearing a small (and sometimes quite large) laceration down the side of the mouth, and a lot of the fish i landed demonstrated previous similar mouth damage. Not nice at all and packed up fishing never to return.
I do not know if this was coincidence or not but it has put me off using barbless for hard fighting fish, i feel that the barb holds the hook in place better and prevents excess tearing of the soft tissue. Has anyone else noticed this? or perhaps more importantly never had this experience?
 
George Maltby said:
i used barbless hooks for carp on what i believe was (and still is) a barbless only specimen water. I noticed in the fish i caught that the hooks were tearing a small (and sometimes quite large) laceration down the side of the mouth, and a lot of the fish i landed demonstrated previous similar mouth damage. Not nice at all and packed up fishing never to return.
I do not know if this was coincidence or not but it has put me off using barbless for hard fighting fish, i feel that the barb holds the hook in place better and prevents excess tearing of the soft tissue. Has anyone else noticed this? or perhaps more importantly never had this experience?
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Definately George, i'll refer you to the link in my first post.

Ian.
 
Leon Dodd said:
hi all,
after losing 2 fish in a session a couple of years ago, to hook pulls, on a water where 1 fish in a session is a good result, on barbless hooks, i am firmly in the barbeb camp
cheers, leon
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Hi Leon,

We all tend to blame something when we have frustrating happenings such as hook pulls, especially on hard waters. However, chances are your losses were nothing to do with the fact you were using barbless hooks...sh*t happens, and all that :D I doubt you stopped using the rod or reel you were using at the time, but the logic would still apply, if you think about it.

I had some odd occurrences last year on the little river I fish, where for reasons known only to the barbel, I would get yer standard four foot twitch, followed by a slack line. First time it happened, I thought the fish had gone, only to discover that in fact it was actually running upstream towards me. After frantically winding in the miles of slack line, I reconnected with the contrary critter and landed it...firmly hooked. This happened severall more times, and despite being aware of what was going on after the first one, there was no way I could stop the slack line because of the speed the fish came upstream....but I landed each one, despite that.

I was only using a three swan shot link ledger, so there is no way the weight of my rig kept the line tight, and thus held the hook in. The fact is that the 'You will loose fish on barbless hooks if you don't keep the line tight' theory certainly doesn't hold water as far as I can see. I have even landed carp from lakes after the blighters had weeded me, and I had left the line slack and waited until the fish decided to come out of their own accord...and STILL landed them! Obviously, I have had the same thing with barbed hooks...but I have also had fish weed me while using barbed hooks, only to find when I gave up waiting that the little gits had transferred the hook to the weed, or a snag, while I waited :rolleyes:

What do you blame then? Should I swear never to use barbed hooks again, 'cos fish can pull tricks like that?

I think the answer is to use what you have confidence in, as you say....but at least try barbless hooks with an open mind. The countless people who do use them with total confidence, and don't lose fish as a result can't ALL be lying :D:D:D

Cheers, Dave.
 
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Barbless hooks for big fish are definately a NO NO!!..They can cause some serious damage to the fishes mouth due to nothing stopping the hook moving about during the fight, which believe me it definately does..I have found just simply crushing the barb on the barbed hook is perfect as it doesent move around during the fight but it also comes out the fishes mouth very easily..
 
Craig Wood said:
Barbless hooks for big fish are definately a NO NO!!..They can cause some serious damage to the fishes mouth due to nothing stopping the hook moving about during the fight, which believe me it definately does..I have found just simply crushing the barb on the barbed hook is perfect as it doesent move around during the fight but it also comes out the fishes mouth very easily..
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Hi Craig,

You have now opened an entirely different debate :D I too have heard that theory, and when Ian Welch was running the Cemex waters, he banned barbless hooks for just that reason, if my memory serves me well.

I really have no idea on this one, because once again, both camps have some extremely competent and respected anglers on their side, each swearing that the hooks THEY use do less damage...and each having reams of evidence to support their case (mostly anecdotal, it has to be said :D) So...who is right, and who is wrong? Damned if I know...I can honestly say that I have never experienced the horrendous mouth damage I have heard people claim is the result of barbless hooks. Then again, I have heard similar claims for barbed hooks, and I can't say I have had problems with those, either :confused:

Perhaps it is more to do with the way different anglers play fish, and some anglers are thus better suited to a particular type of hook? I honestly don't know. If I start getting fish with mouth damage that looks to have been caused during the fight when I caught it, I will certainly start to worry and give it more thought...but until then.......

Cheers, Dave.
 
I've personally never caught any fish that has a barbless hook in it's mouth or body, i caught one carp with a barbed hook in it's mouth that was rusted up, so it must of been there for a good while, so for that reason, I'm sticking to the less.
 
David Hall said:
I've personally never caught any fish that has a barbless hook in it's mouth or body, i caught one carp with a barbed hook in it's mouth that was rusted up, so it must of been there for a good while, so for that reason, I'm sticking to the less.
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Maybe that's because as soon as the line tension was gone, they all dropped out, hence people want a more secure hook hold?!

I am happy in the knowledge that my micro barbed hooks don't unduly damage the mouths of fish I catch and certainly ain't about to start fixing something that isn't broken.

Pete, my advice is don't use them unless you have too; barbless hook only fishery, or you get caught short of 'proper hooks'
 
I only use barbless for all my carp and barbel fishing I've never had any problems with them.Id like some to explain how they think a hook on strong line(10lb bs and upward) being held under tension by a doubled up barbel rod is going to " move around"?
 
I only use barbless for all my carp and barbel fishing I've never had any problems with them.Id like some to explain how they think a hook on strong line(10lb bs and upward) being held under tension by a doubled up barbel rod is going to " move around"?
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I dont know quite about that specific situation, but winter just gone I had to use a size 8drennan ss barbless when I was chub fishing with bread (having forgot my normal barbed hooks and having to borrow a hook off a mate).

Hooked a chub and played it hard on 6lb line and light avon rod. Got the fish in and around the hook was a 360degree wound about the size of a 5 pence, the hook was able to pivot on the bend and the point must have been scratching the flesh off. Nasty. Treated with klinic and went home to get my barbed hooks.

Barbed are safer on a fishes mouth, IMO.
 
I totally agree Ben. Plus, how can a barb stop a hook moving sideways? A barb DOES restrict movement of the hook towards the bend (ejection- away from the point of the hook), but a barb is SO relatively small compared to the gauge of the wire that is will exert minimal/zero influence on sideways movement! Why should a barbless hook move more sideways than a barbed hook.. it just doesn't make sense. Most of the barbel I catch unhook themselves whilst they're 'resting' in the landing net. I DO check their mouths..for barbed hooks left in by inexperience anglers. But I see VERY little damage to their mouthes, in fact its usually impossible to see where my (barbless) hook has been.
Ok, if you've got no confidence in your ability to use barbless then use barbed hooks. That's fair enough.. but please dont justify it with spurious logic that defies the laws of physics :D
PS.. no offence meant, just dont like 'bad science'.
ATBA
Terry
 
I don't think its a case of bad science...the exact reasoning behind why barbed seem to do less damage is unclear (at least to me) however, the observations that led me (and many others it would seem) to this conclusion seemed clear enough at the time; in my experience a higher level of damage was observed when using barbless hooks. For me personally (i am not trying to impose my views on others) that was proof enough...without thinking about why.
 
Fair enough George, I'm sure I'd do the same if I believed barbless do more damage. And yes, I've heard the view stated quite strongly before that they do do more damage..but its not been my experience, and it doesn't (appear) to make any sense.
Added to this I loathe the thought of leaving a fish with my hook in it. I've taken enough of other angler's (barbed) hooks out of good barbel to warrant me never using them again.
N.B..before I get to sound tooo sanctimonious, I use barbed hooks when fishing for chub in weedy rivers :eek:
 
I have total confidence in both when used, but do tend to use barbed for barbel fishing and barbless or crushed barb when stated on carp waters. I caught my pb carp of 47lb on barbless and that weeded me up for at least 30minutes:eek: I have never thought of using barbless for barbel, dont know why, but I have'nt had any problems to date, touch wood! of removing a barbed hook cleanly. Definately some good replies for and against too get people thinking:D
 
Terry Christopher said:
I totally agree Ben. Plus, how can a barb stop a hook moving sideways? A barb DOES restrict movement of the hook towards the bend (ejection- away from the point of the hook), but a barb is SO relatively small compared to the gauge of the wire that is will exert minimal/zero influence on sideways movement! Why should a barbless hook move more sideways than a barbed hook.. it just doesn't make sense.
ATBA
Terry
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Terry,
I believe the damage ( the sliceing thats being talked of ) is not caused whilst the barbless hook has a hold, it's caused as the hook loses it's hold, and then drags across the fishes lip, this probably happens in a fraction of a second, the hook will then either find another purchase which is when this - according to some on here - have seen it, including me a few weeks back a small tench i landed from one of my club waters which has a barbless hook rule, i could see clearly where the hook had entered, and re entered, with about an inch long slice between the two points of entry.
Of course this could also be caused when only the intial point of entry exists the hook failing to find another hold, and leaves the fishes mouth.
This is different to the damage i described in that thread on the old BFW, where i believe a barbless hook causes damage during the fight as it withdraws slightly without leaveing the entry point, and finds a new purchase making a different hole under the flesh without making a new entry.
I believe tonight watching Thinking Tackle on Discovery Shed Channel, i saw exactly that evidence when Danny Fairbrass landed a carp, one entry hole, but all around the flesh was red and angry and appeared very swollen, and looked to me to be very fresh i.e damage that had just occured, and defininatley to my eyes was not old injury.
Keeping a tight ( or so you think ) line to the fish may well prevent a complete exit of the hook - most of the time except in instances i've just described where the hook drags across the flesh with before finding a second hold - but pressure even if you keep the line as tight as possible does fluctuate, with the bending of your rod, when your clutch slips, and in the case of mono when your line stretches, and is when i'm convinced subtutaneous damage is caused, a barb even a micro barb prevents the hook from rising inside the entry wound, thereby preventing either of the described
wounds occuring.
However i will not say that there is NEVER a case for barbless hooks, such as the venue i was fishing the other week, were the deep margins are full of snags, and where many inexperienced anglers are fishing, who would otherwise struggle unhooking especialy perch and roach, using barbed hooks.
I think it's a shame nowadays many youngsters don't seem to get the instruction from experienced anglers, that used to be more common when i learn't to fish.
Something my club in recent years is seeking to address with a Junior coaching scheme. Getting off the subject now !! :rolleyes:

As part of my Barbel unhooking equipment, i keep a disgorger that will accomodate a size 4 hook, and a pair of forceps ( i actually hate them ) and i can't remember ever having to resort to using either on a Barbel... ever !
They are primarily in my kit in case of catching Chub or Bream.
I don't understand the difficulty people say they have in removing a barbed hook from a barbels lip.

Barbed - Barbeless i doubt ever the twain shall meet, but what pleases me is that both groups firmly believe ( mostly i think ) that what they do is for for benifit of the fish, so i think ultimatley that has to be a good thing ;)

Ian.
 
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My local club is barbless only on its still waters and many is the time I have fished the river with my pool set ups after a bit of feeder fishing for tench. I don't remember loosing any barbel.
 
To me it's quite simple, both types of hooks are only as safe as the angler that is using them. A local commercial I sometimes fish for roach is crawling with carp with badly damaged mouths, which is a barbless fishery, but on most of my club waters who see a more dedicated and experienced lot of anglers I have not come across one fish with any sort of mouth damage, and my club is a barbless only club. As soon as I venture on to our clubs small carp hole which sees the inexperienced and occasional angler I once again find carp with mouth damage.

I would suggest that on commercials and the like that barbless are a must simply because barbed hooks in the wrong hands could be a nightmare, but on fisheries which see more experienced and capable anglers then either or should be fine. To me both are safe as houses in the right hands, and where barbel are concerned they are the fish I worry the least about using barbless - they just don't come out very often at all, and nearly all my barbel are absolutely nailed perfectly in the bottom lip. Once they're in, they are not moving anywhere.

I respect those who argue for barbed hooks, but I do suspect part of it is the anglers in question approaching the situation from the 'I don't want to use barbless because I may lose more fish, what kind of theory suits that angle'.

Another issue with barbed hooks is exactly the situation that happened on a local carp water recently where the anglers habitually flout the barbless rule and fish barbed hooks rowed out by bait boats into the most brutal of snags and inevitably lose a horrendous majority of fish they hook. Recently the bailiff of the water was called out as a carp trailing a long length of line held in by a barbed hook which had 3 or 4 other lengths of line tangled around it had tethered itself to a bouy used by the ski boats on the water. Luckily this carp had a lucky escape, but I wonder how often this sort of thing happens on heavily fished waters which will inevitably have lengths of line dead in the water. The lake in question is also home to the largest amount of birdlife I have ever seen including around 50 swans, who do get caught up in trailing line and barbed hooks from time to time. Just another angle on the subject, that they can be a hazard to wildlife when you have long lengths of line trailing everywhere attached to barbed hooks.
 
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Ian/Chris..I think you've both made and added good points to the debate. From all this I truly hope that more anglers who have never tried barbless give them a go this season. They wont be disappointed.
I fish the Teme mostly, which is littered with submerged and half submerged snags. Many a time I've spoken to 'anglers' fishing near snags who have proudly boasted something along the lines of "landed one and lost three" as though that's something to be proud of. On inquiry they are invariably found to be using barbed hooks (probably keepnets too..I hope no one on here is still defending their use?!
I know for sure that I'd give up fishing for barbel all together if I was compelled to use barbed hooks.
PS..I'd have thought that if barbless hooks regularly or even sometimes moved during 'the fight' then more barbel would be caught hooked in the TOP lip (i.e. ..the hook transferring from the lower to the upper lip due to UPWARD pressure from angler's higher stand-point). But I cant remember the last time I removed my hook from a barbel's top lip. Ok, many of my barbel unhook themselves whilst 'resting' in the landing net..but its a valid point just the same.
 
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