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Barbless Hooks

Ash Gould said:
I would contravene that rule.
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Ash,
If you don't like the rules of a club then don't join them, Personally i wouldn't join a club that has a barbless rule on their rivers.

That said the rules are the rules, what other rules would you break because you didn't like them ?

I'm head bailiff of the club i belong to, there are a few rules that i don't like, but i have to abide by them the same as other members, and i have to enforce them, and do as much as i dislike it sometimes.

You might find you've wasted your money, if you were to deliberatly break a rule in the club i belong to, the same with many others i would think.

Ian.
 
Barbed for me as i feel from experience that they cause less damage, haven't used a barbless in 20 odd years and wont start now.
 
Ian,

You must be the change you wish to see in the world (someone much cleverer and wise than me said that and I try to heed it where I can).

I often break club rules (only ones whereby I am not harming anyone, their fishing, or the fish). Its impossible to know what rules fishing clubs have until you get a ticket. Anyway it doesnt really matter because most clubs dont have a balif who would check rigs.

I could never enforce something I didnt believe in, if you can as a Head baliff than thats your bag. In my mind just because a rule is a rule doesnt make it right. Im pretty sane and can make my own mind up as to what is right or wrong.

I wont use a barbless hook because they damage fish (slighly complicated because a barbless probably wouldnt damage a barbels mouth due to their thick lips but chub, carp, tench damage is done), and that is wrong.
 
personal opinions

im sure ive posted this on here before but here we go again.
i used a barbless hook by mistake 2 seasons back and watched a barbel 5lbish twisting and turning in shallow water:eek:
when i went to unhook it the hole that was left was a disgrace to say the least,where the hook had twisted:( this im sure wouldn't of happened with a barbed as the hook hold would of stayed firm!
not knocking anyone using barbless as i have friends who use them but when you experience the damage i witnessed you'd never use a barbless again.

on the commercials they have barbless only rules and thats because novice anglers and match speed fishing would just rip barbed out causing damage:mad:
but there are other venues that insist on anglers using barbed hooks:eek:
 
Ash Gould said:
Ian,

You must be the change you wish to see in the world (someone much cleverer and wise than me said that and I try to heed it where I can).

I often break club rules (only ones whereby I am not harming anyone, their fishing, or the fish). Its impossible to know what rules fishing clubs have until you get a ticket. Anyway it doesnt really matter because most clubs dont have a balif who would check rigs.

I could never enforce something I didnt believe in, if you can as a Head baliff than thats your bag. In my mind just because a rule is a rule doesnt make it right. Im pretty sane and can make my own mind up as to what is right or wrong.

I wont use a barbless hook because they damage fish (slighly complicated because a barbless probably wouldnt damage a barbels mouth due to their thick lips but chub, carp, tench damage is done), and that is wrong.
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So you join a club, disregard their rules which don't suit you, and make up your own then Ash ?

Hope you don't join the club i bailiff for.

Ian.
 
Even the bailiff's regularly break some of the rules in the club I am in.

Having said that I break the same rules and have no wish to sit in a glass house and throw stones.

If a club says barbless then that is what I use, I use barbed when I can.
 
Barbless hooks are trouble if you are after speciman fish of any species. For bite fishing they are ok providing the fish do not need to be played hard. Barbel have mouths tougher than a Yorkshireman's wallet so are not as prone to tearing, especially when the majority are hooked in the lips. IMO, they are still a waste of space for barbel angling.
 
Just checked.. my last 299 barbel were caught on barbless hooks. Not a single fish suffered the tearing/ripping of flesh etc that some other anglers have reported, and I only 'bump off' one or maybe two a year (probably almost-foul-hooked fish, or a fish with the bait but not the hook in its mouth). I cannot remember the last time I lost a barbel during 'the fight' (many years ago). In my experience..barbel DONT 'drop off' barbless hooks, and barbless hooks DO NOT tear barbel's lips.
I have never landed a barbel and found someone else's barbless hook still in its mouth..and I doubt if anyone else ever has (??)
But.. I have landed several/many barbel with damaged and inflamed lips, with other angler's barbed hooks still in their mouths.
Nuff said from me.
ATBA
Terry
 
So you join a club, disregard their rules which don't suit you, and make up your own then Ash ?

Hope you don't join the club i bailiff for.

Ian.
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Ian, Im not a git and as Ive said earlier I will only break rules that dont fit in mith my angling ethos not just ones that dont suit me, its a very significant difference.

I dont see what the problem would be if I joined the club you baliff for?

I agree with the fact that a barbless hook will not tear a barbels mouth due to the nature of their thick lips but barbless do tear other fishes mouthes and that is why I wouldnt use them.

ATB
Ash
 
I once had a very badly hooked barbel where the barbed hook had gone through one lip and some how turned and gone through the other lip making it very difficult to remove. I did eventually remove the hook but not before causing some slight damage to the top lip, and a great deal of unnecessary stress to the fish. From that time I have used barbless, and used them at Fishers Green when Ian Welch introduced his ban, with no detriment to the fish.
 
Ash Gould said:
Ian, Im not a git and as Ive said earlier I will only break rules that dont fit in mith my angling ethos not just ones that dont suit me, its a very significant difference.

I dont see what the problem would be if I joined the club you baliff for?

I agree with the fact that a barbless hook will not tear a barbels mouth due to the nature of their thick lips but barbless do tear other fishes mouthes and that is why I wouldnt use them.

ATB
Ash
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Ash,
Your first statement confuses me, it seems entirley contradictory to me, can you explain the ' significant difference '?

Your second statement - the problem would lie with these words from your first statement ' I will only break rules ' as you state quite specificaly that your intention would be from the outset to disregard any rules which you didn't care for.

As a bailiff, a member i find contravening a rule, if i'm sure he's done so in genuine ignorance - ( which is overwhelmingly usualy the case ) will usually be reminded of the specific rule he's broken, and then further reminded to study the rule book so further confusion can be avoided.

Members that - i feel have a blatant disregard for a rule, or the rules in general, and that have blatantly disregarded one or more rules will have their permits endorsed noting the offence(s), so that the offence is recorded for other bailiffs to see in the event of a repeat offence, which would then mean the member being asked to appear before the committee to explain him/her self.

If the offence was so blatant and serious it could mean the members rights to fish are suspended immediatly, until a hearing before the committee is held.
The offence would have to be of the most serious nature to provoke a bailiff into taking that action.

That second category i guess you would fall into Ash, the rules of the club i belong to have been voted on by the membership at an AGM, there are rules that are in place because they are part our tenure agreement with a reparian owner, and breeches of these could result in the loss of that water.

Who are you to come into a club, and basically say ' to hell with your rules, i'll make up my own thanks ' and by doing so put at risk the fishing of the rest of the membership.

That is from my point of view where i would have a problem with you joining the club i belong to Ash.

As far as Barbless hooks we obviously have no conflict as we do not have a barbless hook rule, save for one small stillwater.

Ian.
 
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Ian, Im not a 'do what you likey pikey', the significant difference is one of semantics, I'll try and give an example.

Most of the clubs have rules that dont suit me, for example one has a night fishing ban. This doesnt suit me because I live miles away and would like to be able to do longer sessions there. Even though this rule doesnt suit me I dont break it as it is stipulated by the land owner and if i were to break said rule it could stop the fishing for everyone.
Another club i am a member of has banned barbed hooks, I contravene this rule because part of my angling ethos is to not harm the fish I catch, because I believe barbless hooks will damage fish I will not us them. Hope that makes sense.

Its not a case of me thinking to hell with rules, its more a case of through experience I know I am a responsible angler and as such fish safely.

On a side note: I know some people do need telling. Another rule in a club I am member of stipulates that you can not fish within 20 yards of another angler, to me thats obvious but it seems not to others.

ATB
Ash
 
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Its not a case of me thinking to hell with rules, its more a case of through experience I know I am a responsible angler and as such fish safely.

But thats just it Ash, it is a case of you thinking exactly that, i honestly think you can't see it.

In the case of clubs who have a blanket barbless rule, i would choose not to buy a membership with them, thereby not contributing to potentially damageing a fish that i was forced to fish for with barbless hooks. That would be my take on that.

I argue my corner in this barbless debate, but it would seem there are at least as many would argue against me as with me, - So who is right ?
ME ! of course :D :D :D .... but seriously it's just my opinion isn't it, no more no less, Somewhere - such as in the making of club rules, there has to be agreement, and the only way to achieve that is by the consensus of the majority - it has to be that way or anarchy rules, everyone doing just what the hell they like.

Thats why i would come down hard on people like yourself Ash, not because of any specific rule you may break, but because you would deliberatly do so, with blatant disregard for the wishes of the majority of fellow members.

Whether or not i may agree with your asthetics wouldn't have a bearing on the issue, you said in a previous post you wouldn't be able to enforce a rule you did not agree with, thats OK many people wouldn't i suppose, but such people would never make a bailiff, i guess it would be impossible for me to find such a bailiff, but any that would turn a blind eye to offences because of their opinions, would be immediatly removed from the team, if i found that to be the case.

Most of the clubs have rules that dont suit me, - The same for me Ash, including the club i belong to, it comes down to the old cliche' - you can please some of the people all of the time etc, etc, but if i couldn't accept that, i be restricted to fishing only free waters, which would severly limit my fishing, so i choose to accept the rules within my chosen club, and with others in the past, and as said if there were rules that bother me so much i wouldn't join in the first place.
Not having seen their rule book is no excuse, all clubs have contacts at some point, and you can ask the question, and for me the first would be 'do you have a barbless rule' the second would be do you have curfew times on your waters, if so how many or which ones, and i regularly get such enquiries.

Lets start another thread if you want to continue this i think this is diverting from the subject of the thread too much - and i started it :eek:

Ian.
 
ive just checked and my last last 600 barbel have been caught on barbed hooks and had no damage to their mouths;) only 1 caught with a barbless and what was the outcome:(
as ive already said opinions differ and in the case where the fish suffered bad damage with a barbless hook it could of been a freak incident!
when i fish local stillwaters i use barbless hooks as most club rules say so.
as others have said i dont lose many fish because of the barbless hook and their good for silvers etc on balanced tackle.
my opinion is that hard fighting fish like barbel twisting and jinking could cause the hook to move if using barbless:(
before anyone mentions it i was exagerating with 600 but you know what im saying:p

if i were to advise a newbie i'd go for barbed all day, but i know there's some very good anglers on here who'd go for barbless.
i'm sure both sides have valid reasons:)
 
Im all on for leaving it Ian, I disagree with your anaylsis of my views but like you say thats another disagreement for another disagreeable thread. At least we agree to agree to disagree :D

ATB
Ash
 
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