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Barbel Fishing and Populations

Have barbel numbers improved or declined on your local rivers

  • The barbel numbers have increased on my local rivers

    Votes: 6 5.1%

  • The barbel numbers have not changed on my local rivers

    Votes: 19 16.2%

  • The barbel numbers have slightly declined on my local rivers

    Votes: 32 27.4%

  • The barbel numbers have sharply declined on my local rivers

    Votes: 60 51.3%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
I have contacted the Angling Trust
The EA local consultative leader Karen Twine
The Angling Times
and the Angling Mail with results of the Survey.
The Angling Trust are the first to respond.
 
Lawrence if what you say is true do we need an Freedom of information request to the EA about this and should not the AT/BS etc be asking these questions...in the end it is our money they spend so we do have a right to know.
 
Now. My own personal theory.

Any notable decline, apart from natural events such as flooding, poisoning will have a time lag before it becomes evident.

One of the key factors in most observations are the lack of year classes that are coming through to re-establish populations. Aligned with this is the fact that barbel being caught are now reaching unprecedented weights. some rivers appear to have more double figure fish than smaller ones. Age will see their decline.


So.

Here's my theory.


In any breeding for profit one of the key facts is that to gain maximun weight it is normal for the animals to be de sexed. an example is bred Turkeys and capons. there are many others.

It is common practice for example for cats to be "done" to avoid fighting. This encourages weight growth at the same time.


The initial stocks of pellets that were used for fishing all came directly from the fish farming industry. In fact they were the only ones that were available for a number of years. They supplied companies like Hinders for the Elips product.

It was some years later that "fish friendly" baits were being produced by bait manufacturers. I have no idea if the same constituents are being used in their production but perhaps less oil content.

Now, if you ran a fish farm. If you wanted the fish to gain maximum weight, to prevent spawning and agressive behaviour, what would you seek to be added to your feed products? Possibly inadvertantly?

The time lags are correct, the current outcomes are correct, and if true would lead to the exact scenario we are experiencing. I would put this as potentially the greatest cause of the decline of barbel in our rivers......


Graham
 
For years now,when Adams mill was producing the run of big fish i was shocked that the larger fish lost little weight over the close season,these fish were Calverton fish,they seemed to go through the motions,but there seemed no small barbel produced.Another conspirancy theory but does anyone have evidence that Calverton fish spawn and produce small barbel,its an easy heat process to De sex all fry at the egg stage.It does seem the majority of massive barbel caught over the last 10 years are all calverton stocked fish.
 
Paul Dowgill said:
Would it not be easy to just ask them if they can reproduce and if so why does it seem they aren't...?
Click to expand...

Good idea Paul...and while you are conversing with them, could you ask them what it is they don't like about my bait, and where they all hide the second I step onto the banks. You might even mention to them that if they promise to hang on to my bait like grim death until I can land them, then I won't use a hook. All I want is a photo, so it's a win win situation.

Cheers, Dave.
 
Lawrence Breakspear said:
The only thing I can say Alex and Simon is look at the Teme and how that river got its Barbel, fortunately we only have to go back 30 years and we can see in our life time how Barbel colonization works, ok it may have happened with the Thames 10,000 years ago, but I still believe the mother river i.e. the Thames or the Severn would be the source of Barbel pushing on instinctively to explore other habitats whether it was a 1000 years ago or or 20 years ago.....with one proviso, that is that the mother rivers own Barbel population was not in decline, I know illegal stckings take place and are successful, you only have to see the Wye for that, but I believe that every mother river has an epicenter of breeding, that ultimately effects the whole of its tributary system with Barbel as they swim up and down to colonize, I consider the middle Severn to be the Severn's area, it doesnt mean that Barbel dont breed in these tributaries, it means they dont get that natural push from behind as fresh fish enter the system, as Barbel push other fish out I do believe they also push their own species forever on and up....[/QUOTE


Lawrence, i have no doubt that the Cherwell like many other tributaries of the Thames originally had an indigenous population of Barbel, the point i was making was that many others came from various stockings of one kind or other, what i would love to know is WHERE exactly some of those groups of fish originated from, anyone who can shed any light on that please speak up because i've never been able to find out. Hence my post.
Click to expand...
 
David Gauntlett said:
Good idea Paul...and while you are conversing with them, could you ask them what it is they don't like about my bait, and where they all hide the second I step onto the banks. You might even mention to them that if they promise to hang on to my bait like grim death until I can land them, then I won't use a hook. All I want is a photo, so it's a win win situation.

Cheers, Dave.
Click to expand...

Dave the point surely is who is having the conversation with the EA and why is it not out in the open...if no one is then there is not a lot of point in a relatively small group of anglers on here bemoaning the fact that rivers appear to be in decline as nothing is going to happen and we will have a future of fishing in mud pools.
 
Dave Taylor said:
I agree Lawrence, call me a cynic if you like, but I always suspected that many Calverton barbel were stocked to upgrade the river status and therefore give a false impression of it's wellbeing!
Trouble is,that policy can cloud our perception of failing barbel populations where they have been previously stocked into unsuitable habitat.
I was led to understand that the EA are more picky where they plonk barbel nowadays. However, that must mean they have a grasp of substainable habitat, which means they should know the answers to all our questions!:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

in the discussion i had with the FO he indicated there were no plans at this time for Babel to be re-stocked into the Kennet, the limited budget was instead being used to create a river enviroment more suited to sustain and encourage Barbel. As he pointed out just sticking more fish in was a waste of money unless the reason for the declines could be resolved.
Pity the Otter trust and natural england didnt think things through in their rush to have apex predators on the river to "prove" it was healthy.
 
Well I guess the survey results are pretty steady now. 79% believe a genuine decline in the barbel population on their rivers. Frightening.

Once again thanks to those who took part and for all of those that contributed.

I feel pretty despondent really at the apparent lack of genuine interest from many quarters. Not on here I might add.

It won't affect the years I have left for fishing much.

If the EA or Angling Media or the AT get in touch I will folllow up. Otherwise. Good Fishing for the future chaps and lets hope it improves.

Graham
 
To answer an earlier question, if I've got it right, a lot of the Barbel that were stocked into rivers with no historical populations, ie the Severn and possibly the Hants Avon came from the Kennet.
The EA's reluctance to stock without habitat improvement is sensible, but this is unlikely to be done by themselves.
They have managed to oversee the destruction of what used to be one of the best Barbel and general coarse fishing rivers in the country (the Kennet) so they have the experience of how NOT to do it and should learn from that and put matters right in my opinion.
 
I think you're right Graham, fishing should remain a viable past time on the rivers for your lifetime, but not for many younger anglers. Very sad indeed.

Nick C
 
As we know most if not all Barbel from Calverton are Trent fish. I always wondered after 30years fishing the Trent on and off, if the Barbel population is all natural ie bred and spawned on the Trent or there has been a little hand been given from Calverton. 30years ago Barbel were not very common at all.
locally in and around Yorkshire there has been a major stocking of Barbel on a lot of my local rivers. Its certainly looking good up here for years to come.
 
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