Barbel Fishing and Populations

[Howard Cooke]

It may make them harder to catch Luke but it won't cause the serious decline in numbers we are seeing. barbell are not the most difficult fish to locate on many rivers, be it moving over shallows or rolling on the surface. Catch returns are a pretty good yardstick of a rivers population but not 100% reliable. Catch returns and a total reduction or lack of sightings is pretty conclusive. There may be unfishable areas on many rivers but these would be infrequent and even areas where fishing is not allowed can be observed.

Personally, I wouldn't underestimate the effect angling pressure can have on our perception of barbel stocks. Take the Wye, a river I must confess to not knowing very well so this is just theory. I am guessing that over the last 5 (possibly more?) years it's popularity has grown enormously and so it has seen a material increase in angling pressure. Tactics and baits are, I am also guessing, fairly typical. Have the barbel responded to this pressure by adapting their behaviour? Feeding times, location, becoming wary of certain baits and terminal tackle? Are anglers finding they need to rove more to locate fish, make some refinements to their rigs?

I fished a very well known section of the Wye with a very well known angler last August. Conditions were a little against us and we managed a chub. He knew the stretch very well and I noted that he was remarking how in order to get to the fish we had to cast incredibly accurately to some overhanging trees on the opposite bank because angling pressure had forced the fish to shoal up more tightly. In previous seasons it was, apparantly, quite easy to draw the fish out.

This doesn't mean that the Wye isn't suffering a decline but it might be distorting the true picture.

 

[Joe Fletcher]

Personally, I wouldn't underestimate the effect angling pressure can have on our perception of barbel stocks. Take the Wye, a river I must confess to not knowing very well so this is just theory. I am guessing that over the last 5 (possibly more?) years it's popularity has grown enormously and so it has seen a material increase in angling pressure. Tactics and baits are, I am also guessing, fairly typical. Have the barbel responded to this pressure by adapting their behaviour? Feeding times, location, becoming wary of certain baits and terminal tackle? Are anglers finding they need to rove more to locate fish, make some refinements to their rigs?

I fished a very well known section of the Wye with a very well known angler last August. Conditions were a little against us and we managed a chub. He knew the stretch very well and I noted that he was remarking how in order to get to the fish we had to cast incredibly accurately to some overhanging trees on the opposite bank because angling pressure had forced the fish to shoal up more tightly. In previous seasons it was, apparantly, quite easy to draw the fish out.

This doesn't mean that the Wye isn't suffering a decline but it might be distorting the true picture.

Howard I dont know if you have ever fished or seen the Lower Severn ?
Its a big wide deep river ?
You can fish it some days and you would get the impression it was totally devoid of any fish and its like looking for a needle in a hay stack .

On a couple of the stretches I fish , Unless the level is up and coloured you are wasting your time fishing for Barbel through the day ?
The other problem you can only fish these stretches one hour after sunset and you then have to be of the bank .

When it rains and there is some colour in the water . As long as the tempertures are reasonable . The Barbel suddenly appear and you can catch any time of the day ?
So is Angling pressure forcing Barbel to change there feeding habits ?

 

[Graham Elliott]

I would like to sincerely thank everyone that has contributed to the poll and the comments so far.
It would be great if we can get the total votes over 100.

It's fair to say the perceptions have remained fairly constant.

I know Lawrence and I have been trying to get the view held in places that "This is the best time to go barbel fishing" reviewed . It's simply not our experience as both long term frequent barbel anglers"

The Barbel Society along with others will hopefuly consider the outcomes in future planning and rally more people to the cause of halting any decline, whether cyclic, water quality, predation or other causes.

I will be sharing the outcomes as widely as I can including my local Consultative headed by Karen Twine.

As far as I'm aware this is the first snapshot of feelings on the state of barbel population countrywide.
freely available.

I would encourage others to share the outcomes widely as they feel fit.

Meanwhile...I'm blanking on the once prolific Loddon!

Graham

 

[David Gauntlett]

Personally, I wouldn't underestimate the effect angling pressure can have on our perception of barbel stocks. Take the Wye, a river I must confess to not knowing very well so this is just theory. I am guessing that over the last 5 (possibly more?) years it's popularity has grown enormously and so it has seen a material increase in angling pressure. Tactics and baits are, I am also guessing, fairly typical. Have the barbel responded to this pressure by adapting their behaviour? Feeding times, location, becoming wary of certain baits and terminal tackle? Are anglers finding they need to rove more to locate fish, make some refinements to their rigs?

I fished a very well known section of the Wye with a very well known angler last August. Conditions were a little against us and we managed a chub. He knew the stretch very well and I noted that he was remarking how in order to get to the fish we had to cast incredibly accurately to some overhanging trees on the opposite bank because angling pressure had forced the fish to shoal up more tightly. In previous seasons it was, apparantly, quite easy to draw the fish out.

This doesn't mean that the Wye isn't suffering a decline but it might be distorting the true picture.

Angling pressure may well distort the picture to a certain extent Howard, and yes fish do tend to wise up (even barbel, which are not exactly the sharpest tool in the box). BUT....as has been said over and over again...barbel are virtually always visible, in most rivers, at certain times of the year. During the closed season. and when they are in a spawning frenzy, they gather on the gravel shallows and are VERY visible. If vastly reduced catch rates AND the frequently total lack of visible fish at spawning times etc. are added together...it adds up to a serious problem I fear.

The spawning fish on the shallows were not affected by angling pressure that often, because happily, that spectacle often coincided with the closed season. Something has caused that annual event to be a thing of the past on many rivers...and we need to know what that something is. It may be a single, serious new development, or a combination of various issues that have simply got worse. Either way, we need to know what the problem is before we can coerce the powers that be into fixing it.

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Graham Elliott]

Dave.
Hopefully we have gone some of the way in getting some to accept there IS a problem!

 

[Howard Cooke]

My gut feeling Graham is that there is a problem. There may be different dynamics at play on different rivers but there certainly seems to be sufficient insight being offered by many barbel anglers that supports a contention that a general decline has occurred (and continues to occur). It is a contention that we need to give a good prod ourselves before others do in a bid to play down concerns raised.

A fantastic step forward for me would be a science based study aimed at defining the necessary ingredients of a "healthy" river and includes tolerance levels. A benchmark, that also makes allowances for environmental components (a benchmark for a Thames tributary might be quite different to a river like the Wye or the Severn etc), that acts as a universally accepted reference point for future debate and intervention. And if, as has been suggested in other similar debates, barbel can represent a barometer for the general health of a river, then there should be wider interest groups caring about barbel stocks. Perversely perhaps, this should include those interested in seeing the otter population maintained.

 

[Alex Gowney]

On many rivers, if not most, it's not just barbel stocks that are suffering. The Windrush is also devoid of chub and some stretches of the Cherwell that were once prolific for chub now seem empty. Whereas angling pressure could have an effect certainly on individual stretches, it is unreasonable to assume that all the rivers concerned populations of chub and barbel all wised up at the same time.

 

[Howard Cooke]

On many rivers, if not most, it's not just barbel stocks that are suffering. The Windrush is also devoid of chub and some stretches of the Cherwell that were once prolific for chub now seem empty. Whereas angling pressure could have an effect certainly on individual stretches, it is unreasonable to assume that all the rivers concerned populations of chub and barbel all wised up at the same time.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that everything is rosy and it's just that the fish are harder to locate and catch. That's clearly not the case. What I am saying is that in thinking through our perceptions of population decline, we shouldn't ignore the potentially distorting effect that angling pressure (and predation for that matter) can cause. I used the Wye as possibly a classic example of this although ideally we would need the input from anglers who have regularly fished the Wye for at least the last 5 years.

Also I am not sure any decline suffered has been at the same pace or started at the same time on every river. There are just too many variables. That said, the poll results give a pretty clear directional view of barbel stocks.

 

[Neil Smart]

Angling pressure may well distort the picture to a certain extent Howard, and yes fish do tend to wise up (even barbel, which are not exactly the sharpest tool in the box). BUT....as has been said over and over again...barbel are virtually always visible, in most rivers, at certain times of the year. During the closed season. and when they are in a spawning frenzy, they gather on the gravel shallows and are VERY visible. If vastly reduced catch rates AND the frequently total lack of visible fish at spawning times etc. are added together...it adds up to a serious problem I fear.

The spawning fish on the shallows were not affected by angling pressure that often, because happily, that spectacle often coincided with the closed season. Something has caused that annual event to be a thing of the past on many rivers...and we need to know what that something is. It may be a single, serious new development, or a combination of various issues that have simply got worse. Either way, we need to know what the problem is before we can coerce the powers that be into fixing it.

Cheers, Dave.

Dave, nail on the head,
The Teme in particular is or was an important spawning river for a large part of the Severn system, offering the ideal habitat with it's many gravel runs and good water quality. As you say the Barbel may not be the brightest of creatures, but as with all creatures are driven by the need to survive, but the need to spawn is the most driven of all their senses, and would be so strong I imagine to overcome just a few Otter or Man to reach their spawning areas that have been a feature for decades.

So, for me that is the dilemma, unless the Barbel can take a considered view that Man or Otter was too much of a danger, which I doubt, or there is something more catastrophic that sees them not come at all or in diminished numbers. such as a huge change in the habitat?

As we know Rivers such as the Teme enjoyed such good sport because the Barbel simply stayed around after spawning, so no spawning no Barbel, it is the same problem with many other rivers. Perhaps just perhaps the Lower Bristol Avon, Severn has a larger numbers of Barbel numbers than previously thought?

However being an old cynic like your goodself, I would bet we will never find the answer, even if there was one be told.

But to me,this all adds to the Enigma that is the Barbel.

 

[Lawrence Breakspear]

I dont think its Angling pressure, because they the Barbel, have wised up, yes Barbel respond to Anglers baits and methods and the way they fish, this for the thinking angler actually makes them more vulnerable to capture, all fish respond to anglers and what they do, whether its noise or how successful they are and what they do, even on still waters we all know how various species cope with this, perhaps by spending large times of the day in the centre of the lake, in weed beds in inaccessible areas but at the end of the day they (and the Barbel) have to feed. But I do believe and know that river conditions, light intensity, water temperature and atmospheric pressure, over feeding, can cause feeding patterns to change, either for the worse or the better, the other major aspect to take into account is the effect of Otters and their close proximity to where you are fishing , I have had fish on the Severn feeding in front of me and an Otter appears and thats it, go home Lawrence. If you look at this whole problem of declining Barbel numbers mathematically, its easy to understand how it gathers momentum, if you have declining Barbel numbers, and the same amount of Barbel are lost every year for what ever reason, the percentage that number represents becomes greater each year of the remaining population and you then have a self fulfilling prophecy, population collapse, as what has happened on various rivers, because nothing has been done or nothing has been asked.....at the end of the day you can only catch whats in the river or in front of you .

 

[Neil Smart]

Howard I dont know if you have ever fished or seen the Lower Severn ?
Its a big wide deep river ?
You can fish it some days and you would get the impression it was totally devoid of any fish and its like looking for a needle in a hay stack .

On a couple of the stretches I fish , Unless the level is up and coloured you are wasting your time fishing for Barbel through the day ?
The other problem you can only fish these stretches one hour after sunset and you then have to be of the bank .

When it rains and there is some colour in the water . As long as the tempertures are reasonable . The Barbel suddenly appear and you can catch any time of the day ?
So is Angling pressure forcing Barbel to change there feeding habits ?

Know that feeling all too well Joe, You would swear unless you knew better there were no Barbel in the River, and then when it comes good it is very good.
Like it was paved with 'em.

 

[Terry Simner]

There are long stretches of the Teme that are VERY lightly fished, maybe only see 10-15 angling sessions per annum or less. But there's still very very few visible fish on those stretches, at spawning time or at any other time.
The fish aren't hiding! They're not spooked by "angling pressure"! They ain't there anymore, they've gone, they're like the proverbial parrot...departed, one way or another. There IS a problem, the E.A. must know about it... but as sure as fish eggs is fish eggs, they ain't about to admit it.

 

[Paul Dowgill]

I walked a stretch of the Thame i had not fished for 4 years last close season on a beautiful sunny day with crystal clear water through fields where it looked like no one had fished for ages. I did not see a single fish (there are no barbel in the stretch but there were some nice chub), no fry, nothing. Maybe that is why no one from the local club has fished it...

 

[Howard Cooke]

There are long stretches of the Teme that are VERY lightly fished, maybe only see 10-15 angling sessions per annum or less. But there's still very very few visible fish on those stretches, at spawning time or at any other time.
The fish aren't hiding! They're not spooked by "angling pressure"! They ain't there anymore, they've gone, they're like the proverbial parrot...departed, one way or another. There IS a problem, the E.A. must know about it... but as sure as fish eggs is fish eggs, they ain't about to admit it.

We are talking in general terms though aren't we? Obviously on certain rivers there is a very different story playing out and angling pressure is of little significance. I think it's important that in trying to reach some sort of general/consensus view, we ensure that we have a good grasp of those factors that might directly affect barbel stocks and those that might affect our perception of barbel stocks.

 

[Paul Dowgill]

Howard it also seems that within the catchment of one river we may have different scenarios. Take the Thames, the tributaries above Reading appear to have very few barbel when compared say to the Kennet/Lodden and have rapidly declined or so it seems. Why is this and is the cause now effecting tributaries downstream? Without a real scientific investigation it is all speculation - the stretch I fish has less pressure than the Kennet but catches are not as high, who really knows why. The point is we have 50% of respondents saying numbers have sharply declined. I suspect if we looked at most other species the answer would be the same but where is the spending of our license fee on investigating this - nowhere it seems. One PhD student working on the Ouse has been reported on here that is all I can recall.

 

[David Gauntlett]

It would be interesting to have an analysis of the catchment areas of our rivers. Some will have a decidedly rural catchment, where farm runoff will be a major factor, some a much more urban catchment whereby human sewage will play a large part, yet others may have a much heavier industrial influence to consider. Of course there will be many which have a mixture of all those things as the river wends it's way towards the sea, so the health of the various stretches would need to be examined.

Unlikely to ever happen, but I think it would be interesting...and may even pinpoint a common area of concern. New, or new combinations of farming chemicals? New drugs or increased quantities of existing drugs that persist in human waste, and remain there unaffected by sewage treatment?....or new industrial chemicals that are poorly disposed of because to do so properly would affect profits? The possibilities are endless, and thats without otters, crays and the black plague being factored in.

Neil...I still place good money on that wretch berloody Tarka as being a major player

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Lawrence Breakspear]

Howard, considering the Teme is an SSI its inconceivable to believe that a whole species is on the verge of collapse and has being heading that way since 2001, with its steady but damaging decline of Barbel since then, there is nothing to grasp here the fact is the Barbel have gone, what the cause is needs to be ascertained, but as a Barbel river its had it. Whilst the reasons for the various declines on various rivers that we know of will be debated and subjected to a level analysis, dont be swayed by looking too close at the Teme as a source for the reason, the Teme became a Barbel river as a result of the colonization of the Barbel in the Severn, as did the W. Avon, with the continual decline of the Severn Barbel population, there is now no need to for those Barbel to run up the Teme to search out pastures new, the smaller numbers of spawning lower Severn Barbel may be happy to go as far as Powick or Diglis, the Teme in the past, without doubt has benefited from the traveling Barbel from the Severn...... there are no smoke or mirrors, no grey areas......the Temes Barbel population is not there any more as it was, and this coming summer you will see even less Barbel, if that is possible

 

[Howard Cooke]

Howard, considering the Teme is an SSI its inconceivable to believe that a whole species is on the verge of collapse and and has being heading that way since 2001, with its steady but damaging decline of Barbel since then, there is nothing to grasp here the fact is the Barbel have gone, what the cause is needs to be ascertained, but as a Barbel river its had it. Whilst the reasons for the various declines on various rivers that we know of will be debated and subjected to a level analysis, dont be swayed by looking too close at the Teme as a source for the reason, the Teme became a Barbel river as a result of the colonization of the Barbel in the Severn, as did the W. Avon, with the continual decline of the Severn Barbel population, there is now no need to for those Barbel to run up the Teme to search out pastures new, the smaller numbers of spawning lower Severn Barbel may be happy to go as far as Powick or Diglis, the Teme in the past, without doubt has benefited from the traveling Barbel from the Severn...... there are no smoke or mirrors, no grey areas......the Temes Barbel population is not there any more as it was, and this coming summer you will see even less Barbel, if that is possible

No argument from me on that one Lawrence it seems beyond doubt what has happended to the Teme and incredibly sad it is too. We do need to understand the causes.

 

[Howard Cooke]

Howard it also seems that within the catchment of one river we may have different scenarios. Take the Thames, the tributaries above Reading appear to have very few barbel when compared say to the Kennet/Lodden and have rapidly declined or so it seems. Why is this and is the cause now effecting tributaries downstream? Without a real scientific investigation it is all speculation - the stretch I fish has less pressure than the Kennet but catches are not as high, who really knows why. The point is we have 50% of respondents saying numbers have sharply declined. I suspect if we looked at most other species the answer would be the same but where is the spending of our license fee on investigating this - nowhere it seems. One PhD student working on the Ouse has been reported on here that is all I can recall.

Yes Paul, it certainly could be the case. That's why this poll is a temperature test based on members own experiences and so it will reflect many different perspectives even on the same stretch of river. That's why it needs as many people voting as possible. My only challenge has been that in reflecting on our perceptions, it's important in my view to consider factors that might have an impact on that perception. Angling pressure is one such dynamic in my view but it's clearly not going to have any bearing on a number of rivers such as the Teme. But it might have a bearing on the Wye for example, I don't know but I would certainly like to hear from Wye regulars.

 

[Paul Dowgill]

Lawrence would you apply the same thinking to the Thames i wonder? Less in the Thames so fewer in the Cherwell, Windrush etc. Why would there be a catastrophic collapse of one species. We know it is not a visible pollution event so surely it has to be year classes not being replaced. Is it that some of these rivers are actually not ideal whatever anglers may think. My thinking is coming back to siltation and crays when thinking about the Thames catchment. Also the flooding last year was severe what effect did this have...so many unanswered questions.