Barbel Fishing and Populations

[Steve Roffey]

I can only base my vote for serious decline on my own experience of the Severn around Shrewsbury.
Over the last 4/5 seasons there has been a marked decline in barbel numbers, though an increase in individual fish size. Up to March 2011 I was catching close to 200 barbel in a season, dropped to just over 100 the following year and for the last three seasons I've not even managed 50! Over the same period I've also found the numbers of chub to have declined.

The only positive for my river seems to to be a welcome resurgence in roach numbers, a fish that had almost disappeared a few years ago in this area.

 

[John Walker]

not exactly on the subject but maybe relevent.
over the 60 years have been fishing i have noticed one species of fish to hit the top regarding size, weight and numbers, after this event everything to do with them slides back into semi obscurity, i have seen this in the thames in 60s with bream, perch in the late 60s, barbel in the thames late60s/early 70s, dace, roach and so on, yes otters will certainly cause great loss of larger fish but could it be nature as well in its own way, either way i have taken notice of these occurences over the years and can never wipe out the possibility it could be the reason for declines

 

[Terry Simner]

Great survey Gra...cheers Bud. If the barbel population number in the Teme is even 5% of what it was 10 years ago I'd be surprised. It's been decimated at least... decimated then halved, then halved again. I moved house in 2001 to live by the Teme, but I'm moving away from it this year hopefully.
I don't think there's many anglers that feel optimistic about the Teme these days.

 

[Lawrence Breakspear]

The Teme over the last 15 years has lost 75% of its Barbel at least......whole areas are now devoid of Barbel, any Barbel......its all very sad, the way its been allowed to go that way, without any investigation....

 

[Paul Dowgill]

Not specifically barbel but I think what is being said can be applied to a whole range of animal and bird species as well, for example the water vole. I do wonder sometimes what the big environmental/wildlife charities are doing with all the cash they are generating. A few success stories eg the Red Kite in the Chilterns but generally decline so why would the rivers be any different - i cannot remember the last time i saw a gudgeon and as for a bullhead it has to be 40 years ago. I recall fishing the River Aire near Keighley as a kid and catching hundreds and i mean hundreds of minnows...now are they even still there in what is a cleaner river? The barbel are bigger as they are for most species and this may be in part due to less competition for food as numbers decline, alongside all the other known reasons.

 

[Terry Simner]

This is very much a BTW but: I've seen far fewer mink over the last few years, but more otters. So maybe, just maybe, otters are the 'friend' of water voles ..as mink are seemingly the worst enemy of water voles. From this, "any enemy of my enemy is a friend of mine", maybe??
ATBA
Terry

 

[David Gauntlett]

Terry, otters certainly do kill mink. The downside is, they also kill water voles....and frogs...and ducks...and young swans (have you seen the famous footage of one killing a heron?). They eat eggs...on the coast they eat crabs, sea birds...you name it. Apparently, if something has a heartbeat, then otters will at least try to kill it....and they usually succeed. They have NO natural predators in the UK, none.

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Terry Simner]

More's the pity eh David..hopefully they'll get their 'come-uppance' soon, and a balance will be restored.

 

[Neil Smart]

In ôKmKm

Terry, otters certainly do kill mink. The downside is, they also kill water voles....and frogs...and water fowl (have you seen the famous footage of one killing a heron?). Apparently...if something has a heartbeat, then otters will at least try to kill it....and they usually succeed. They have NO natural predators in the UK, none.

The mink has a similar mentality, however it is said that otter cannot predate the vole as ruthlessly as the Otter as it justice too big for it's burrow, but that of course be a lot of BS to further still, the Otters status.

Used to share swims with Mink on the Teme, and the Barbel were still quite plentiful, but that was pre 2007 floods.

So, who or what is the real villain ?

 

[David Gauntlett]

In ôKmKm

The mink has a similar mentality, however it is said that otter cannot predate the vole as ruthlessly as the Otter as it justice too big for it's burrow, but that of course be a lot of BS to further still, the Otters status.

Used to share swims with Mink on the Teme, and the Barbel were still quite plentiful, but that was pre 2007 floods.

So, who or what is the real villain ?

I think it's you Neil

Seriously though, this is interesting

"The Mustelidae (from Latin mustela, weasel) are a family of carnivorous mammals, including the otters, badgers, weasels, martens, ferrets, minks and wolverines. Mustelids are diverse and the largest family in the order Carnivora."

So...our cuddly little furry lovies are related to wolverines...NOW we see the problem.

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Neil Smart]

Justice pre emptive text thingy

But me thinks we need to look at other factors Dave, I certainly didn't empty the Teme Dave

And I am inclined to think neither did the Otter.

 

[David Gauntlett]

Anyway, back on track...

Graham said...

"I was invited to give my views a couple of years ago to an EA consultative Commitee.
I wrote 3 full pages based on my 40 years fishing the river. I never heard back".

Well of course you didn't get a reply Graham. You undoubtedly didn't say anything they wanted to hear...and you almost certainly wouldn't have said anything they would want to publish or made known to others.

If their political masters tell them to keep claiming there is nothing wrong, that we are fulfilling our requirements passed down by the EU to clean up our rivers, and to use stockings from Calverton to paper over the cracks....then the last thing they want to hear is the truth!

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Lawrence Breakspear]

Thats my view as well David, the EA and their water company friends both have the same boss, both are no friends to the Angler, I will say that the EA have some good guys working for it, but these are coal face workers, not the faceless bureaucrats, I know he Angling Trust dont see the EA as cozy bed fellows, this why we as Barbel anglers must become a pressure/lobbying group who make these people accountable and not give them a moments rest, thats the only thing they understand.

 

[Luke Agacy]

What about angling pressure?

It seems to me that barbel fishing is the "new carp fishing" - where it has become fashionable to fish for barbel. It seems that over the last few years there has been an increase in the number of anglers targeting them with carp fishing style tactics. I think as a general rule this style of fishing (big leads, bivvy's up, bite alarms, lots of noise etc.) must have an effect on fish in terms of making them more wary or making them retreat to safer "unfishable" stretches.

 

[Alex Gowney]

What about angling pressure?

It seems to me that barbel fishing is the "new carp fishing" - where it has become fashionable to fish for barbel. It seems that over the last few years there has been an increase in the number of anglers targeting them with carp fishing style tactics. I think as a general rule this style of fishing (big leads, bivvy's up, bite alarms, lots of noise etc.) must have an effect on fish in terms of making them more wary or making them retreat to safer "unfishable" stretches.

It may make them harder to catch Luke but it won't cause the serious decline in numbers we are seeing. barbell are not the most difficult fish to locate on many rivers, be it moving over shallows or rolling on the surface. Catch returns are a pretty good yardstick of a rivers population but not 100% reliable. Catch returns and a total reduction or lack of sightings is pretty conclusive. There may be unfishable areas on many rivers but these would be infrequent and even areas where fishing is not allowed can be observed.

 

[Robert Richbell]

Thats my view as well David, the EA and their water company friends both have the same boss, both are no friends to the Angler, I will say that the EA have some good guys working for it, but these are coal face workers, not the faceless bureaucrats, I know he Angling Trust dont see the EA as cozy bed fellows, this why we as Barbel anglers must become a pressure/lobbying group who make these people accountable and not give them a moments rest, thats the only thing they understand.

I wote to the EA a few weeks ago about the Kennets decline resulted in a long chat with the Kennet fisheries officer who explained what they are trying to do with very little money. He sounded like he does care, fisherman himself, but as you say whether he will be allowed to do much is another matter

 

[Lawrence Breakspear]

Robert, this is the type of guy I refer to as a coal face worker, a lot of the guys at his level are Anglers and there jobs are very vocational, I know a few like this and they are very committed and hard workers, but these guys often get overruled and become very frustrated with the bean counters...

 

[Rhys Perry]

They've already 'streamlined' the fishery side of the EA and closing down salmon hatcheries because they don't work, allegedly. It's pretty clear they don't give a flying duck about us, I've no doubt there are well meaning people inside the EA but it's clear their hands are tied. At last year's club meeting we had a talk from both the EA and the Angling Trust, the former was really quite embarrassing as we watched a well meaning chap trying his best to show they still cared but failing miserably. By comparison the AT made the EA look pathetic, and when you consider the cost of a EA licence, especially the migratory one, and how many people buy one, compared to the cost of joining the AT, and how few are in that, you really wonder just how much of our money is wasted when the AT seem to do so much more with so fewer funds.

 

[Lawrence Breakspear]

That just about sums it up Rhys....well put.

 

[Paul Collins]

I have been fishing for more years than I care to remember for many different species on quite a few different rivers. In that time I have experienced some exceptionally good fishing at times.
Every one of the brilliant fisheries has been destroyed by the actions or lack of actions of the EA.
I have a book in mind titled something like, 'My fishing life and the evil EA'.