• You need to be a registered member of Barbel Fishing World to post on these forums. Some of the forums are hidden from non-members. Please refer to the instructions on the ‘Register’ page for details of how to join the new incarnation of BFW...

Barbel boiled baits back when?

Ian Grant said:
It's a good job i've got BFW to amuse me when it's peeing down :D :D :D :D

Anyway .... Jeremy, IMO if you want an arm aching fun day Barbel fishing, there is no other bait that comes close to maggots, as long as you know the Barbel are there you've got to do something badly wrong not to catch them, they become fixated on them and gorge themselves, one session i had, i took 3 doubles, and 3 singles in an afternoon, all of them were squitting maggot skins all over my mat, but you have to know the fish are there or it's an expensive blank, as opposed to drawing fish in to an area over time by pre baiting.

But definatley not an inferior bait IMO, but extremly costly to use in the manner i fish for the bigger stamp of fish, and to try baiting with small amounts would only see the resident minnows and small stuff hoover them up, before they had the desired effect of drawing Barbel.

On a one off days fishing though it's those little fish that eventually draw in the Barbel, as any close by wont ingnore the feeding frenzy going on, though a little trick i use just in case there aren't any close enough to see or detect it, is to pour a drop of cod liver oil into a separate tub then put in a few handful of maggots, you then fill a feeder with the maggots, and the leak off
will carry a fair way downstream, most Barbel will investigate if they get a whiff :D i always hair rig the maggots using a size 14 tied to the hair on a or 6, and cram the hook with maggots if you are patient you can get up to 25 on the 14, but i usually settle for about 20. this has two advantages the , small stuff hasn't got a hope of getting the bunch in their mouth, rarely will you ever find even one maggot sucked, the other plus and i've no idea why, is that Chub appear not to like the large bunch of maggots, in all the years i've used this method i've only ever hooked one chub.

Ian.
Click to expand...

Ian,
I did not say that maggots are an inferior bait and i have had many a good days fishing using them for carp and barbel. What i was saying in the quote above is that many anglers and i come from a carp background so that tells you something lol look at them as being an inferior bait compared with a good HNV on a nutrional basis. Personally i think maggots are one of the best baits going but the cost of using them can get a little prohibitive.:)
 
Regarding the theory that pellets are bad for fish, I'm not sure where the evidence is to support this?.... It was of interest to me that John Pattern of Fishers Green Fish Farm (the one that produces all the carp now known as Simmo's) told me that he rears his fish entirely on trout pellets. These are stonking little fish which show incredible growth rates. I have heard it said that they have short life spans though, once again, I'm not sure if there is any truth in this?

Few fish can ignore a good spread of particle baits under their noses, it's just too convenient for them to ignore and is therefore a very effective way of catching them. Pellets are the perfect particle because they marry the two concepts of nutritional feeding with particle baiting. The fact that so many pellets are thrown in can make the fish very twitchy though, in as much as they want them, but they understand that there may be a price to pay by way of a trip to the bank. The result of this is that fish that are pressurised with pellets can become very nervous and hook shy. The main reason I prefer to use HNV boilies is because, as I said earlier, it creates an open playing field where you are not fishing against everyone else by using an almost identical approach.
 
Have to say that i'm not in agreement with using pellets of the high oil variety in vast quantities as a high fat diet aint good and i should know lol. Now i will use elips when fishing the Teme but i only use a dozen or so baits per swim as i not found the need for more. The amounts i've seen used on the Severn at times has amazed me, kgs being put in by some anglers even when they aint catching which says to me you aint on fish.:)
 
Chris,
Regarding the short lifespan of the Simmo's one of my carp syndi's has over 120 simmo's along with a few real old warriors and after 10 years we are already losing some of the simmo's while the originals are still going strong with some of them now over 30 years old.
 
Jeremy Evans said:
Chris,
Regarding the short lifespan of the Simmo's one of my carp syndi's has over 120 simmo's along with a few real old warriors and after 10 years we are already losing some of the simmo's while the originals are still going strong with some of them now over 30 years old.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting observation.... I wonder how many others will share this? On the waters I was running we stopped stocking Simmo's mostly because the members didn't much like them. I've got a bit out of touch recently, so I don't know how well the Simmo's I stocked 10 years ago are doing. Mind you in Norfolk nowadays, regular restocking is probably unavoidable with the chances being that otters will have em out well before the fish's full lifespan is run.

Sorry lads, I'm not trying to throw a spanner in the works here and start another otter rant.
 
Jeremy Evans said:
Ian,
I did not say that maggots are an inferior bait and i have had many a good days fishing using them for carp and barbel. What i was saying in the quote above is that many anglers and i come from a carp background so that tells you something lol look at them as being an inferior bait compared with a good HNV on a nutrional basis. Personally i think maggots are one of the best baits going but the cost of using them can get a little prohibitive.:)
Click to expand...

I don't think i write my post very clearly these days, I was agreeing with you :(

Ian.
 
Joe,

Bobs statement needs to be taken in context, not standalone.

I believe he was refering to the Trent, a big river with stacks of fish of all species.

Additionally I don't think he mean fill it in to the extent that Ian was referring to.

Most apparent conflicts of opinion can be resolved with context.

That doesnt mean we all agree though!

For instance I might say that a pukka long term HNV isn't necessary, just concentrate on location an attraction. Whereas other folk will say no, you need to sort out a nutritional bait for long term success. But what we fail to mention is that I don't fish campaigns, while others do.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Pick and choose the advice that best fits your situation..
 
Hi Darren,

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Pick and choose the advice that best fits your situation..

And that really is the key.

There is an absolute mine of info on this thread but one little throwaway line is the piece that will stay in my mind and I'll work on it because it fits in with the type of fishing I enjoy.

But I won't give myself a headache if it fails!
 
Darren George said:
Joe,

Bobs statement needs to be taken in context, not standalone.

I believe he was refering to the Trent, a big river with stacks of fish of all species.

Additionally I don't think he mean fill it in to the extent that Ian was referring to.

Most apparent conflicts of opinion can be resolved with context.

That doesnt mean we all agree though!

For instance I might say that a pukka long term HNV isn't necessary, just concentrate on location an attraction. Whereas other folk will say no, you need to sort out a nutritional bait for long term success. But what we fail to mention is that I don't fish campaigns, while others do.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Pick and choose the advice that best fits your situation..
Click to expand...


Pity there isn't a 'LIKE' button here, like on Facebook.

Without doubt a quality HNV bait is not required for short visits to various waters. For a long term campaign though, it can prove invaluable
 
Chris Turnbull said:
Regarding the theory that pellets are bad for fish, I'm not sure where the evidence is to support this?.... It was of interest to me that John Pattern of Fishers Green Fish Farm (the one that produces all the carp now known as Simmo's) told me that he rears his fish entirely on trout pellets. These are stonking little fish which show incredible growth rates. I have heard it said that they have short life spans though, once again, I'm not sure if there is any truth in this?

Few fish can ignore a good spread of particle baits under their noses, it's just too convenient for them to ignore and is therefore a very effective way of catching them. Pellets are the perfect particle because they marry the two concepts of nutritional feeding with particle baiting. The fact that so many pellets are thrown in can make the fish very twitchy though, in as much as they want them, but they understand that there may be a price to pay by way of a trip to the bank. The result of this is that fish that are pressurised with pellets can become very nervous and hook shy. The main reason I prefer to use HNV boilies is because, as I said earlier, it creates an open playing field where you are not fishing against everyone else by using an almost identical approach.
Click to expand...

Chris I'm not saying pellets are bad, more that potentially long term high level usage of any bait designed as a sole food source for any species will IMO prove detrimental long term to the species heavily feeding on food meant for another.
Like I've said prior to this trout pellets are for trout farming, carp pellets are produced for farming carp.......

In the same way that primates have individual unique needs amongst the many species, us humans are omnivorous, whereas our closest relative the gorilla is herbivorous, I know if the gorilla's diet was my sole or predominant food source, it wouldn't be good, sat on the toilet all day long for starters.

Then if we broaden this analogy further, gibbons eat vast quantities of bananas, if we humans were to replicate this, renal and heart issues would ensue.

Going back to fish; though king carp and barbel are both members of the Cyprinidae family. Within the confines of this country, one fish reaches weights of 60lb+ is best adapted to stillwaters, the other reaches a max weight of 20lb and thrives in well oxygenated running water.
So looking at the genetics of both king carp and barbel, I do find it very hard to believe that anglers baits designed for the unique needs of a carp meet those of a barbel, no facts to back this up with but I feel its a plausible deduction.
This doesn't just refer to pellets but boilies too.

Boilies are generally accepted as being a superior source of nutrition (though I debate this) and with most 'pile it in' type anglers tending to favour oily pellets halibut or trout, well there ain't that many similarities between a stillwater trout, a saltwater halibut and a running water barbel, similar dietary needs, I debate.

Like I said earlier, this is probably where the likes of Ian Grant with his boilie approach to fishing get an advantage by filling a nutritional shortfall, though with piles of bait layed next to a fish's head, its hard to draw them away from the easy option.

Regards Simmo carp, all I'm saying is; live fast, die young. (whether this be a nutritional or genetic issue???)
 
Colin Gordon said:
Chris I'm not saying pellets are bad, more that potentially long term high level usage of any bait designed as a sole food source for any species will IMO prove detrimental long term to the species heavily feeding on food meant for another.
Like I've said prior to this trout pellets are for trout farming, carp pellets are produced for farming carp.......

In the same way that primates have individual unique needs amongst the many species, us humans are omnivorous, whereas our closest relative the gorilla is herbivorous, I know if the gorilla's diet was my sole or predominant food source, it wouldn't be good, sat on the toilet all day long for starters.

Then if we broaden this analogy further, gibbons eat vast quantities of bananas, if we humans were to replicate this, renal and heart issues would ensue.

Going back to fish; though king carp and barbel are both members of the Cyprinidae family. Within the confines of this country, one fish reaches weights of 60lb+ is best adapted to stillwaters, the other reaches a max weight of 20lb and thrives in well oxygenated running water.
So looking at the genetics of both king carp and barbel, I do find it very hard to believe that anglers baits designed for the unique needs of a carp meet those of a barbel, no facts to back this up with but I feel its a plausible deduction.
This doesn't just refer to pellets but boilies too.

Boilies are generally accepted as being a superior source of nutrition (though I debate this) and with most 'pile it in' type anglers tending to favour oily pellets halibut or trout, well there ain't that many similarities between a stillwater trout, a saltwater halibut and a running water barbel, similar dietary needs, I debate.

Like I said earlier, this is probably where the likes of Ian Grant with his boilie approach to fishing get an advantage by filling a nutritional shortfall, though with piles of bait layed next to a fish's head, its hard to draw them away from the easy option.

Regards Simmo carp, all I'm saying is; live fast, die young. (whether this be a nutritional or genetic issue???)
Click to expand...

Taking that to its conclusion Colin then just how innapropriate will the mass use of Halibut pellets (which are designed primarily for the rearing of Marine fish) turn out to be ? They are by far the most used of all pellets for Carp/ Barbel, yet they contain massive amounts of oil, and target completely different dietry needs to a freshwater fish, yes ?
 
Simon Lush said:
Taking that to its conclusion Colin then just how innapropriate will the mass use of Halibut pellets (which are designed primarily for the rearing of Marine fish) turn out to be ? They are by far the most used of all pellets for Carp/ Barbel, yet they contain massive amounts of oil, and target completely different dietry needs to a freshwater fish, yes ?
Click to expand...

To be perfectly honest I don't know, I've heard and read rumours of excessive usage of high oil baits causing fatty deposits in the livers of carp and this is the reason many larger commercial carp fisheries now ban loose feeding any pellet except low oil 'branded' carp pellets, but to be honest no research will ever be undertaken, unless someone stands to make a financial gain (or saving).

I use no end of high oil pellets in the course of a year but go on the theory; a little bit of a bad thing can be good (look at the benefits of a glass of red every day), that coupled with the age old adage; everything in moderation.;)
 
I think there is a further reason why commercial (overstocked) waters ban the use of trout pellets and that is to do with the hi-oil fish poo smothering the bottom, leading to bacteria overloads that can kill the fish. Not being inclined to frequent such places I don't know anything much about this, it's just something Dc Bruno told me a few years ago.
 
Last edited:
Did you chaps see the article by Dr Mark Burdass of Sparsholt College??

The big problem with Pellets from his research is a) the high fat content and b) the high amonia content...........waste pellets excreted and those not eaten are broken down by bacteria producing further amonia, the water reaches such an amonia saturation it becomes toxic...........of course this is talking of stillwater........

If you want to read the article, pm me an e-mail address and I will forward.
 
Ian Crook said:
Did you chaps see the article by Dr Mark Burdass of Sparsholt College??

The big problem with Pellets from his research is a) the high fat content and b) the high amonia content...........waste pellets excreted and those not eaten are broken down by bacteria producing further amonia, the water reaches such an amonia saturation it becomes toxic...........of course this is talking of stillwater........
Click to expand...
The big problem with Pellets from his research is a) the high fat content and b) the high amonia content...........waste pellets excreted and those not eaten are broken down by bacteria producing further amonia, the water reaches such an amonia saturation it becomes toxic...........of course this is talking of stillwater........



one of my club waters banned boilies because they said this was the problem as above, could it of been pellets instead.
 
001110.gif
 
Darren George said:
Joe,

Bobs statement needs to be taken in context, not standalone.

I believe he was refering to the Trent, a big river with stacks of fish of all species.

Additionally I don't think he mean fill it in to the extent that Ian was referring to.

Most apparent conflicts of opinion can be resolved with context.

That doesnt mean we all agree though!

For instance I might say that a pukka long term HNV isn't necessary, just concentrate on location an attraction. Whereas other folk will say no, you need to sort out a nutritional bait for long term success. But what we fail to mention is that I don't fish campaigns, while others do.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Pick and choose the advice that best fits your situation..
Click to expand...
Hi Darren I would have to agree with what you say . You are probally right he was refering to the Trent and he advocates using up to a kilo of pellets . I would assume when the conditions are favourable . I would think that would apply to any large river with a large head of fish . For example parts of the Wye . We all have our own thoughts and opinions as to what is right and what is wrong and we all do things differently . With the hope that common sense prevails
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top