Are any small river barbel populations thriving?

[Terry Simner]

oh well.....I will leave you all to it.

That sounds like a suicide note Lol

 

[Mark Anderson]

Hi men ,

Iv got to say , although shouted down many times , and repeatedly told I was making a fuss , pointing at the wrong reasons for the decline the river Windrush crash was 100% otters . I was there on the ground fishing it a lot ( well Sue was on the rod , I was carrying stuff ) , and the crash was almost overnight . The sighting of otters went from none , to them clearly cavorting in broard daylight , even around at least 2 locks on the Thames , the pub garden at the confluence of the two rivers ( we had permission to fish a fair way up from the join) , and I see one swimming a couple of hundred yds up it one evening . All this took a couple of seasons , 3 at most before we started to drop tickets . The owner of a syndicate that knew us well pulled us to one side asking for our views as he had chased one on a quad bike , and questioned us on the drop in catch rates , more importantly sightings as he knew that's how we fished . The resulting demise of the river now resembles others in the area , crayfish took hold , and a angling friend was finding ottered chub as the ladder run dry . Korda ( embryo ) have had to fence what was once Vauxhall lake having no choice with a member photographing an otter popping in , along with another big complex of lakes in that area . Extraction , coloured water , and all the problems that now prevail on the smaller Oxfordshire rivers are now mirrored on the Windrush . I could also write the same for the Evenlode that sue used to fish for years without seeing another angler , and sight fished for barbel with worms . The greatest river we ever fished died in front of our eyes , and we are too old to see it return .

So , will stocking smaller rivers help , what are people's views ?. We are members of a bit that has had a influx of stocked fish , with some being caught last season a slightly higher weights , so survived for now .

Hatter

 

[Mike Hodgkiss]

There is no doubt that Otters eat Barbel , and that Otters on some ,usually smaller rivers have had a seriously detrimental effect on the Barbel population . However I simply don't buy the notion that Otters prefer certain fish species to others , and that they avoid shoal fish as it ' confuses ' them . I would have thought that diving in to a shoal of Bream would have been an easier way to get a meal that pursuing a solitary fish . Yes they will go after torpid fish in cold water conditions but why a single torpid Barbel than a shoal of torpid Bream? If you look up what Otters eat , they are seen as very active lithesome creatures that will pursue any fish , or indeed fowl . I think that Otters have been demonised as the major causal factor for the decline in Barbel numbers , when in reality the most likely cause is more complex , , damage to spawning grounds , pollution , over abstraction , chemicals in sewage discharge effecting fertility ,as well as predation , the list goes on ...

 

[Richard Isaacs]

The Ivel was an old stomping ground for me for a number of years. Round sandy and Biggleswade it was a Barbel anglers real chance of smashing pbs. My pb came out of there as did lots of people in search for that serious fish.
Don’t get me wrong I know there is still a few in there but plenty of them have been dragged up the banks along with the big girl that could of potentially gone British record as she was last caught at over 20. It’s all down to otters down there and will be many years before that could be anything like the place it was. Dare I say it was once one of the best barbel rivers in the country. Not easy going but if you put in some work you would certainly be banking a fair few high doubles in a season. Such a shame but like I say there are some still kicking about. My friend had a 14 in July out of it.

 

[Jason Bean]

Hi men ,

Iv got to say , although shouted down many times , and repeatedly told I was making a fuss , pointing at the wrong reasons for the decline the river Windrush crash was 100% otters . I was there on the ground fishing it a lot ( well Sue was on the rod , I was carrying stuff ) , and the crash was almost overnight . The sighting of otters went from none , to them clearly cavorting in broard daylight , even around at least 2 locks on the Thames , the pub garden at the confluence of the two rivers ( we had permission to fish a fair way up from the join) , and I see one swimming a couple of hundred yds up it one evening . All this took a couple of seasons , 3 at most before we started to drop tickets . The owner of a syndicate that knew us well pulled us to one side asking for our views as he had chased one on a quad bike , and questioned us on the drop in catch rates , more importantly sightings as he knew that's how we fished . The resulting demise of the river now resembles others in the area , crayfish took hold , and a angling friend was finding ottered chub as the ladder run dry . Korda ( embryo ) have had to fence what was once Vauxhall lake having no choice with a member photographing an otter popping in , along with another big complex of lakes in that area . Extraction , coloured water , and all the problems that now prevail on the smaller Oxfordshire rivers are now mirrored on the Windrush . I could also write the same for the Evenlode that sue used to fish for years without seeing another angler , and sight fished for barbel with worms . The greatest river we ever fished died in front of our eyes , and we are too old to see it return .

So , will stocking smaller rivers help , what are people's views ?. We are members of a bit that has had a influx of stocked fish , with some being caught last season a slightly higher weights , so survived for now .

Hatter

Mark....worth looking at this about the windrush, don't think you will be able to sight fish it anymore

Home | windrushwasp

www.windrushwasp.org

 

[Jason Bean]

So regardless of what damage otters have done to barbel stocks in the Oxfordshire Thames region I would say the most urgent problem that needs addressing is pollution and abstraction. But Loz and Dez just want you to join there tub thumping crew and forget about all that, they just want a cull on otters. which is fine if that's what you want for your river in your region.

Perhaps if I lived in Worcestershire or Shropshire and spent most of my time barbel fishing on the Severn and its tributaries I would have a different opinion maybe similar to there's but I don't live there.

The Thames through Oxford is an absolute fish stuffed river and there is a few populations of barbel to fish for if that's your thing, sadly the smaller tributaries are the ones that suffer for the above reasons, but even they are not totally dead and it still surprises me what's in them in the winter when they are worthy of fishing.

 

[Lawrence Breakspear]

So regardless of what damage otters have done to barbel stocks in the Oxfordshire Thames region I would say the most urgent problem that needs addressing is pollution and abstraction. But Loz and Dez just want you to join there tub thumping crew and forget about all that, they just want a cull on otters. which is fine if that's what you want for your river in your region.

Perhaps if I lived in Worcestershire or Shropshire and spent most of my time barbel fishing on the Severn and its tributaries I would have a different opinion maybe similar to there's but I don't live there.

The Thames through Oxford is an absolute fish stuffed river and there is a few populations of barbel to fish for if that's your thing, sadly the smaller tributaries are the ones that suffer for the above reasons, but even they are not totally dead and it still surprises me what's in them in the winter when they are worthy of fishing.

We are hardly tub thumping as you put it, we are trying to start a campaign for a consensus for a change in legislation regarding the protection of otters that's all and the crew that you refer to consists of Dr Andy Orme, Ade Kiddel, Martin Bowler, Julian Cundlif, Marsh Pratley, Phil Smith, Tony Gibson, Dr Paul Garner, these are just a few that support the Barbel Society in what it is trying to do .....and may I add my view expands far further than the Severn and its tributaries, because every day I hear how barbel populations and barbel rivers are suffering because of the Otter, from the Bristol Avon to the Dorset Stour to the Kennet to the Lea to the Windrush to the Cherwell to the Teme to Severn to the Lugg, I think i have a broader view than you actually, but I am glad your bit of the Thames around Oxford has no problems.....thanks for your comments, but you have misjudged my motives, all I have ever done in my 40 odd years of barbel fishing, is the best I can do for the Barbel as a species, its environment and ultimately fellow barbel anglers. The crisis in barbel fishing today caused by the otter is unprecedented, there is nothing I can do to effect the immediate future or bring back those 1000's of double figure barbel killed by otters, but what we can all do is something for the future, remember this is happening on our watch.....i dread to think what it will be like in 10 years time. However, each to their own......

 

[Stephen Goderski]

Do I think the otter is the sole reason for the decline of barbel on so many of the rivers I fish / used to fish? No.

Do I think the otter is a major contributory factor to the decline? Yes.

Do I think that the legislation protecting otters should be repealed? Too ******* right I do!

 

[Jason Bean]

We are hardly tub thumping as you put it, we are trying to start a campaign for a consensus for a change in legislation regarding the protection of otters that's all and the crew that you refer to consists of Dr Andy Orme, Ade Kiddel, Martin Bowler, Julian Cundlif, Marsh Pratley, Phil Smith, Tony Gibson, Dr Paul Garner, these are just a few that support the Barbel Society in what it is trying to do .....and may I add my view expands far further than the Severn and its tributaries, because every day I hear how barbel populations and barbel rivers are suffering because of the Otter, from the Bristol Avon to the Dorset Stour to the Kennet to the Lea to the Windrush to the Cherwell to the Teme to Severn to the Lugg, I think i have a broader view than you actually, but I am glad your bit of the Thames around Oxford has no problems.....thanks for your comments, but you have misjudged my motives, all I have ever done in my 40 odd years of barbel fishing, is the best I can do for the Barbel as a species, its environment and ultimately fellow barbel anglers. The crisis in barbel fishing today caused by the otter is unprecedented, there is nothing I can do to effect the immediate future or bring back those 1000's of double figure barbel killed by otters, but what we can all do is something for the future, remember this is happening on our watch.....i dread to think what it will be like in 10 years time. However, each to their own......

Loz, I totally understand where you coming from, but is there enough anglers out there thinking the same and see things how you do. Ultimately I cannot see how it would ever work and who would pay for it and how do you measure its success? It's too late, angling is a dieing pastime...how long do you think the barbel society will last, what's the average age of its members?

If there was enough support there amongst anglers to get the ball rolling by the time you got anywhere most would be dead. I can just see Des in 20 years time on his Facebook page ranting about otters and barbel..told you so, told you so the f*****s have eat them all!!

 

[Mark Anderson]

Hi men,

Jason , yes I know the situation with the Windrush , as I say iv been offered bits of it , but it's not a prospect in reality . Len Gurd gave me and Sue his bit for nothing to fish , and last time we was there is was obviously coloured , it's days have gone , we won't return in our lifetime .

Hatter

 

[Jason Bean]

Hi men,

Jason , yes I know the situation with the Windrush , as I say iv been offered bits of it , but it's not a prospect in reality . Len Gurd gave me and Sue his bit for nothing to fish , and last time we was there is was obviously coloured , it's days have gone , we won't return in our lifetime .

Hatter

So where you going in the after life then?

 

[Mark Anderson]

Hi men ,

Jason , it's funny but as dust I'm going in the Windrush off the bridge where we spent decades fishing , watching , wading .

Hatter

 

[Graham Elliott]

That's been my plan for years Mark.

Just a different river.

 

[Terry Simner]

That's been my plan for years Mark.

Just a different river.

And mine, and there's no barbel in my chosen bleedin' river either.

 

[Neil Smart]

The exposion of barbel anglers fishing these smaller rivers it was only going to go one way.
We blame the Otter, how convenient, we should look at ourselves, in the way we completely disregard sustainability, ignore the basic requirements for fish welfare and environment.
There is almost a yobbish attitude to the species, how many Anglers are sponsored by tackle companies to feature in their blurb, and the diminishing comics to promote front page lumps , no wonder the breeding females are now so scarce. Just now I am discussing on BAA forums the argument in keeping Barbel in keepnets, a BAA official thinks this is fine and has never witnessed any fatalities over the years thousands of barbel kept for weigh ins. I have, seen too many belly up big females to know this is a lie, but with this sort of attitudes we are doomed.
Barbel are almost salmon esque in needs but they don't inhabit the sort of rivers that the gentry fish, they are not protected as such, and certainly are not valued in a commercial sense.
I have no doubt that members on this site are genuinely concerned about the Barbel, but we are the few , Lol, Steve Pope, and others rightly are concerned, and we really need not to shy away from challenging poor practice or just ignorance.
Lol, has summed it up in a nutshell, the breeding females are in decline, this is the problem, of course these big females are the victim's of clowns and Otters, the latter we can do little about.

 

[Jason Bean]

I want my mix to be...

30% me
30% sensas river
30% sensas gros gardons

then laced with casters and chopped worms and balled in off Donnington bridge in to the Thames...roach and bream can have one last feast from me.

I thought some of you older guys could be made into boilies, probably turn out a bit tuff and sour though

edit...just realised that only adds up to 90%...we'll chuck a bit of molehill in to get me to the bottom!

 

[Jason Bean]

Neil, I've been through this before with you... a keepnet used correctly causes no harm to a barbel what so ever, a specimen anglers man handling, taking multi photo's and weighing of fish in the blazing sun are more likely to do damage to fish.

its down to the anglers common sense but a lot don't have it or know the "correct" way to handle barbel

 

[Neil Smart]

Been through this with me before...
If nothing else you got more front than Sainsburys
But you have a vested interest in keepnets, don't let that cloud your better judgement.

 

[Lawrence Breakspear]

Loz, I totally understand where you coming from, but is there enough anglers out there thinking the same and see things how you do. Ultimately I cannot see how it would ever work and who would pay for it and how do you measure its success? It's too late, angling is a dieing pastime...how long do you think the barbel society will last, what's the average age of its members?

If there was enough support there amongst anglers to get the ball rolling by the time you got anywhere most would be dead. I can just see Des in 20 years time on his Facebook page ranting about otters and barbel..told you so, told you so the f*****s have eat them all!!

Jason, the thing is you can not not do anything on the basis that the odds may be stacked against you, about 4 years ago I was informed that Powick weir on the river Teme was going to be removed, we all knew this would be disastrous for the river and its fish and environment. I was personally condemned, ridiculed, accused and told it would be taken away, one organisation wanted a river of deeper pools,connected by riffles and shallows, a river of shad, bullheads, minnows and chublets ......we took on the EA, the Severn Rivers Trust, the Angling Trust and the Canals and river Trust, you know what? The weir is still there, with a fish pass, we won, the point I am making is that the Angling fraternity are always being told we will fail, we are easily divided, we are told what to do, we are forever being told the rivers are in a poor state, then we are told the rivers have never been so good, all I know is that barbel numbers are in decline on every river I know and myself and few others will try our best to reverse this and make those that are charged with our well being are held to account.

Will we fail, maybe we will, but somebody as to try and unify anglers to protect the future of river fishing, with every carp water that is fenced means more otters on the river, we as river anglers must be able to protect our patch, do we really want to leave a legacy of no barbel or at best a few barbel to future river anglers. Thanks for your input Jason.

 

[Lawrence Breakspear]

The exposion of barbel anglers fishing these smaller rivers it was only going to go one way.
We blame the Otter, how convenient, we should look at ourselves, in the way we completely disregard sustainability, ignore the basic requirements for fish welfare and environment.
There is almost a yobbish attitude to the species, how many Anglers are sponsored by tackle companies to feature in their blurb, and the diminishing comics to promote front page lumps , no wonder the breeding females are now so scarce. Just now I am discussing on BAA forums the argument in keeping Barbel in keepnets, a BAA official thinks this is fine and has never witnessed any fatalities over the years thousands of barbel kept for weigh ins. I have, seen too many belly up big females to know this is a lie, but with this sort of attitudes we are doomed.
Barbel are almost salmon esque in needs but they don't inhabit the sort of rivers that the gentry fish, they are not protected as such, and certainly are not valued in a commercial sense.
I have no doubt that members on this site are genuinely concerned about the Barbel, but we are the few , Lol, Steve Pope, and others rightly are concerned, and we really need not to shy away from challenging poor practice or just ignorance.
Lol, has summed it up in a nutshell, the breeding females are in decline, this is the problem, of course these big females are the victim's of clowns and Otters, the latter we can do little about.

You nailed there Ian, well said...."it only takes two good men to do nothing for evil to succeed ...." keep up the fight mate, more power to your cause.!