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Are any small river barbel populations thriving?

Neil Blood

Neil Blood

Senior Member
The Barbel population on my local river Dane has been in demise for several seasons and this season we appear to have suffered a total collapse in the population, with reports of only several fish caught.

Although the river faces many issues, the main cause I suspect are Otters, which are now breeding on the river between Northwich and Middlewich. In comparison, the Chub numbers appear to be stable and I suspect that Otters are picking off the Barbel in the winter months, when unlike the Chub, they become quite dormant. The problem is further compounded, in that once the Barbel are gone, there is no natural recolonization route, as the Dane flows into the River Weaver, which is nothing more than a big canal, with no resident Barbel population.

Given that virtually every suitable Otter territory is now taken in the UK, I’m curious to discover if we still have any small UK rivers, which still have a healthy Barbel population?
 
River Nidd in North Yorkshire is the smallest barbel river that I fish. It has a lot of otters and mink, the barbel fishing is as good as I've known it in the 30 years that I've fished there. 10 years ago I'd go hoping to catch a barbel, nowadays three is my par score.
 
Counted 40+ small Barbel in a river Colne side stream today. We still have a reasonable amount of bigger fish on our club main stretches but areas downstream have been Ottered and fish stolen.We seem to benefit from lots of Dogs being walked off the lead on two of our stretches.The Upper Lea is the most prolific river i have ever experienced with so many young fish coming through.The one thing i have noticed is the shallower, faster, weedy sections of our rivers seem to still get spawning Barbel and young fish coming through.The slower sections have been effected by the low water flows and heavy abstraction in the last 10 years. They have become heavily silted and the Barbel in these sections do not seem to produce many surviving offspring.
 
Idle
 
I fish the Loddon and it is difficult to understand why the barbel appear to be struggling to successfully spawn, whereas other species are not. Fed up with barbel blanking I have taken to running a float through and catching whatever comes along. One stretch is stuffed with small chub and it is obvious that multiple year classes are represented. A few days ago I caught a small wild brown trout which I guess was born in the river. If the conditions are good enough for trout and chub why not barbel?
 
Steve Reed said:
I fish the Loddon and it is difficult to understand why the barbel appear to be struggling to successfully spawn, whereas other species are not. Fed up with barbel blanking I have taken to running a float through and catching whatever comes along. One stretch is stuffed with small chub and it is obvious that multiple year classes are represented. A few days ago I caught a small wild brown trout which I guess was born in the river. If the conditions are good enough for trout and chub why not barbel?
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Not enough mature females thats the problem, remember males outnumber females by at least 7 to 1 in the natrual state, sometimes as high as 10 to 1, females outlive males by living for more than twice as long, the easiest big meal for an Otter is a big, old female barbel, various small river barbel populations are being artificially sustained by supruptisious EA barbel stockings F2, F3 and maybe F4 barbel, lets get something straight, you are only fooling yourself if you believe that barbel live happily alongside otters in some harmonious relationship, if the barbel population is not contributed to by EA stockings the barbel population will crash, its all about the demographics of any barbel population, it's a self fulfilling prophecy, its ultimately a numbers game.
 
What a good thread.
Lawrence excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by “ supruptisious “ also what are F2, F3 and F4 barbel ?
 
Steve Reed said:
I fish the Loddon and it is difficult to understand why the barbel appear to be struggling to successfully spawn, whereas other species are not. Fed up with barbel blanking I have taken to running a float through and catching whatever comes along. One stretch is stuffed with small chub and it is obvious that multiple year classes are represented. A few days ago I caught a small wild brown trout which I guess was born in the river. If the conditions are good enough for trout and chub why not barbel?
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I think my original comment re Barbel becoming dormant in cold water temps is a big part of the problem on smaller rivers, making them easy pickings for the Otters. Chub remain active in the coldest of water temps, so have a better chance of evading an Otter?

During two recent kick samples, we found young Barbel on both occasions; however as the adult fish population has crashed during the last few years, such finds wont last.
 
I'm pleased to hear you have found some young barbel Neil, that's something I suppose.

I can't comment on the Dane between Middlewich and Northwich, but upstream of the M6 my own feeling is that the chub population has taken a bit of a dive the last couple of seasons. What I have noticed is that the mink population really does seem to have expanded, either that or the mink have got more confident and less wary of people, also Goosanders seem to have flourished from Congleton down to Holmes Chapel - producing some pretty large broods it would seem. I wonder what impact they might have on barbel recruitment given the other pressures they face.

I don't think I've seen more signs of otters than I used to, less if anything. I first came across otter tracks, spraints and signs of kills in the Byley area around 2002. I used to occasionally spot the odd barbel when slugging for chub - not in the last 10 years though.
 
Re the Dane Joe, it is facing many issues and avian predation in particular (Cormorants and Goosanders) is a huge one. When I first started fishing the river 30 years ago, you occasionally saw a Goosander in the winter months; now they are breeding all along the river and to watch a female with 6 or 7 well grown young, fish out pool after pool is quite scary!

One of those kick samples, which found a young Barbel, was at Swettenaham last year. Re the mink, funding has just been obtained for 3 Mink rafts; however monitoring them daily on some of the lengths above Holmes Chapel, may be a big ask of someone?

Specific to the latest Barbel demise on Barbel Alley (Holmes Chapel to Middlewich), it happened within the last 2 to 3 seasons, where the remaining pockets of fish have virtually disappeared! This coincides, with my own observations of seeing a female Otter with two well grown cubs at Davenaham and having a dog Otter, swim right under my rod tip at dusk!

I also believe that initially (2010 onwards) the Dane Otters, were feeding in the T&M Canal, which runs within yards of the Dane in both Middlewich and Northwich? This said something appears to have changed in their behavior, if they have indeed, now chosen to target the Barbel?
 
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Albert Lepere said:
What a good thread.
Lawrence excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by “ supruptisious “ also what are F2, F3 and F4 barbel ?
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Basically surreptitiously means in secret, we assume barbel stockings are done purely for the long term benefit of anglers, but barbel are also stocked to monitor the wellbeing of a river, for experimental reasons, they, the EA see the barbel an indicator species, now F1's F2's and F3 barbel really indicate the genetic purity of the barbel i.e. 100% wild or maybe a mixture aquacultured barbel and wild fish, it can also refer to age and size, though it is a very specialist subject. The EA are definitely stocking bigger and older aquacultured barbel these days, this is because of the poor survival rates of what we call fingerlings, larger stocked barbel say a 1lb in weight, will be less inclined to be eaten by gooseanders or washed away in the first winter floods. I dont want to be a killjoy here, but I am very suspicious when I suddenly hear of lots of small barbel being caught or showing themselves, when a year previous anglers were complaining of no barbel. Its very difficult to get information from the EA on barbel stockings, even via the FOI act. The fact is because of the continual growth in otter numbers there isnt a barbel river that isn't in some form of decline or crisis, and small shoal spotted on some shallows doesnt necessarily mean all is well, we have a major, major problem, that is progressively getting worse
 
Neil Blood said:
Re the Dane Joe, it is facing many issues and avian predation in particular (Cormorants and Goosanders) is a huge one. When I first started fishing the river 30 years ago, you occasionally saw a Goosander in the winter months; now they are breeding all along the river and to watch a female with 6 or 7 well grown young, fish out pool after pool is quite scary!

One of those kick samples, which found a young Barbel, was at Swettenaham last year. Re the mink, funding has just been obtained for 3 Mink rafts; however monitoring them daily on some of the lengths above Holmes Chapel, may be a big ask of someone?

Specific to the latest Barbel demise on Barbel Alley (Holmes Chapel to Middlewich), it happened within the last 2 to 3 seasons, where the remaining pockets of fish have virtually disappeared! This coincides, with my own observations of seeing a female Otter with two well grown cubs at Davenaham and having a dog Otter, swim right under my rod tip at dusk!

I also believe that initially (2010 onwards) the Dane Otters, were feeding in the T&M Canal, which runs within yards of the Dane in both Middlewich and Northwich? This said something appears to have changed in their behavior, if they have indeed, now chosen to target the Barbel?
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Hi Neil I have fished the Dane on and off for over 25 years. My personal view is that the river is just too small to hold a viable population of barbel now that otters are here to stay. IMO the otters have had a big effect on the levels of other fish. Chub numbers have dropped average size has gone up and numbers of trout/grayling have increased. No doubt there are other reasons for the changes, cormorants and goosanders, siltation below Homes Chapel, crayfish increased house building on the flood plain etc. As a barbel angler I go elsewhere nowadays. If I was to fish the river now it would probably be for chub, grayling or trout all of which can give good sport on the river.
 
Look at rivers like the Hull where after various stocking , the barbel have emigrated in numbers to the more down stream often murky very tidal stretches, where they will be harder to predate and can live in relative peace, where they will breed though I dont know .
 
I know this is a barbel fishing website , but surely Otters eat Bream , Pike , Perch ? Has there been a crash in these species populations that correlates with the increase in otters on our rivers ?
 
That is an excellent question Mike!
The way the bream are showing in the Ouse (and to a lesser degree the Nidd) this
season, a very good question indeed! :)
 
Mike Hodgkiss said:
I know this is a barbel fishing website , but surely Otters eat Bream , Pike , Perch ? Has there been a crash in these species populations that correlates with the increase in otters on our rivers ?
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Barbel generally grow bigger than these species, apart from pike, and are presumably easier to catch. It would appear that otters like big fish. Almost all the carp in the Aynho fishery near Banbury were wiped out by otters.
In the case of the Cherwell, the chub population isn't what it was and the river is no longer anywhere near what it once was. It is no longer a viable barbel fishery. The reasons are almost certainly a mixture of many. The river, like many rivers, has never been the same since the floods of 2007.
 
I think, the species you mention are typical shoal fish (safety in numbers), I dont think Otters like to hunt shoal fish to be honest, too much hard work, I think their first preference is large singular fish like double figure barbel, big pike and carp, what we consider to be big adverseral species, the otter sees these fish as an easy meal, I think shoal fish confuses the Otter as they scatter in different directions, hence the difference is cause and effect of the otter on some species . However, once the barbel go, the otter soon moves on to other species, the Worcestershire River Teme is a good example of this, where in the past large barbel lived alongside Bream to near double figures, wild carp to over ten pounds, huge pike to thirty plus and big chub, roach and perch, but, as soon as the barbel population declines, the other species soon followed. I keep trying to remind people, the way the otter prefers the bigger slower fish, means the females of the species ( and barbel are a good example of this) get targeted and remember if a female barbel of 12lb gets killed, you don't just lose that fish, which is bad enough, you probably lose the potential of 20,000 fry every year for the next 10 years, no females no breeding....its a simple as that!
There isn't an equal split between male and female barbel, at best its 7 to 1 (males to female) and in some instances as high as 10 to 1, and with males living a much shorter life than females, 7 years ish to 20 plus years ish, so you can see how barbel populations crash.
 
Alex Gowney said:
Barbel generally grow bigger than these species, apart from pike, and are presumably easier to catch. It would appear that otters like big fish. Almost all the carp in the Aynho fishery near Banbury were wiped out by otters.
In the case of the Cherwell, the chub population isn't what it was and the river is no longer anywhere near what it once was. It is no longer a viable barbel fishery. The reasons are almost certainly a mixture of many. The river, like many rivers, has never been the same since the floods of 2007.
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Cherwell's just f**ked full stop and it has nothing to do with otters Alex, Thames tributaries around Oxford are some of the worst polluted in the uk with abstraction sucking the life out of them...give me otters any day over that lot.
 
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