I'd rather be stuck behind the hunt, at least they are just totally inconsiderate. I get the feeling cyclists set out with the sole purpose to piss off as many motorists as possible.
Eventually most of the riders had to dismount and lead their horses off into the woods.
My suggestion that you have to disengage with some individuals Terry, they are just antagonistic, you say black they say white, they dont know how to discuss, one protagonist even suggested that the only reason I was against otters is because of my own selfish needs as I am only interested in big barbel and not all barbel, utter stupidity, thankfully most engage and chat without insult or sarcasm, BFW is a great web site with some great debate, its a credit to its creator and administrators.the title of the thread is angling times OTTER article... the question i believe is .. have otters had a profound effect on any barbel populations... the answer to that question is yes
all the other things being discussed ...pollution...abstraction...crayfish etc etc are another discussion
which only leaves one burning question....
Damian what planet is it that you live on
Kind of odd you would say that some do not know how to discuss when you are quite clearly of just one opinion and will not even contemplate any other alternative, to the point of saying that anyone whose experiences contradict yours are being utterly irresponsible!
The image of angling? In whose eyes? I don't particularly care what non anglers think of angling. As a person who also shoots I am used to negativity towards that as well and remain indifferent to it. The average non-angler/shooter doesn't actually give as much thought to these activities as most seem to think, and don't appear to care too much either way. The active anti-angler will still be anti-angling even if anglers themselves were breeding and releasing otters.
That doesn't come as any surprise really!
It's a fair point that all issues are in fact part of the same problem so logically can be included in the same discussion. The problem has often been the total denial by otter lovers that they are, in fact, at least a part of the problem, never mind whether they may or may not be most of it. I was talking to an EA official at a small country fair in Stratford a few years ago and mentioned the increase of otters on the Warks Avon, along with a sharply depleted barbel population. He didn't bring up the obvious points of abstraction, poor recruitment etc. but tried to tell me all fish kills were mink and not otters. When I mentioned that the death of the Traveller on the Wensum, a fish in excess of 18 pounds, might be a tall order for a mink he merely asked if I had concrete proof that it was an otter. This is plainly insulting peoples intelligence and helps neither side of the argument.
That was also an answer given to a former member on here (I think) when talking to somebody involved in the release of otters on the Upper Thames.
I've read some evasive posts re. the destruction of the barbel population, but I think you should get first prize for that post Damian. The OP was about otters. Otters Damian. But it would appear that the only contribution you're willing to make is about all the other possible factors in this equation. Your contribution slyly amounts to "Ah, but what about this, what about that" ...anything you can throw into the discussion to 'muddy the waters', as long as it's not otters.
I had a exchange of emails in the early 2000,s and a few phone conversations to their top man about the release of those otters , as we were fishing the Windrush , Evenlode and Thames heavily through the 90s , we see it first hand , and was even contacted by the bailiff at linear to see if our results would confirm their fears .
no one is saying there was no otters in 97 damian...... let’s put this into perspective..we are talking about otters.... not the dodo or the woolly mammoth
You are not stupid Damian, maybe in denial but not that stupid. You appear to be all for 'balance' - in the world, nature, and the 'self'. Well the same balance is attained when a fox is let into a hen-house as when otters are introduced into small/medium sized rivers, with the large female barbel, the matriarchs, the 'brood mares', taking on the role of the 'hens'. They don't stand a chance, the 'fox' will destroy. The Yang will devour the Yin (and I believe you know this, Grasshopper).