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Anglers mail article

David Chant said:
Just to be clear, I have nothing against the Bait and Wait and Wait approach and it is probably very effective in the right place. I would also think that sitting for 8 hours with no bait in the water in the daytime is better than sitting behind your beta lights in the dark for 8 hours with no bites. :) :) Maybe this is why I now find roving for chub more pleasurable as I am at least doing something.
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Yes it does require patience David! I certainly never waited 8 hours! Usually, if I got to the water in the morning it would be maybe two and a half or three hours max before I started fishing. It also works well with pellets, boilies etc. if you have a decent head of fish.
 
Alex Gowney said:
Yes it does require patience David! I certainly never waited 8 hours! Usually, if I got to the water in the morning it would be maybe two and a half or three hours max before I started fishing. It also works well with pellets, boilies etc. if you have a decent head of fish.
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Alex, unfortunately the stream where I fish has a small population of barbel and is heavily fished. The water is also never "chalk stream" clear so I have never seen a barbel unless it has been at the end of a fishing line. The upside is, if you are fortunate enough, you are more likely to catch one well over double figures than under.
 
I had the rare opportunity to try a bit of bait and wait like this, last month. I was working within walking distance of the fishery. On my third return to bait, I found a group of six teenagers doing flips in the river on top my bait...
I tried it the year before. Over a couple of days. I returned on the Saturday morning at dawn ready to “clean up” I found a well known angler in the swim, who explained he’s had the whole shoal this week, swims gone dead now.
In short, it never seems to work out for me. 🤪
 
Bait and wait can mean many things and it depends so much on the circumstances.
while it might cost you £25 in ground bait and hemp for 8 hours on the Wye, it doesn’t cost me that to put out 3 droppers of hemp and a pva stringer for a 4 hour session on the nene. Both are using bait and wait tactics just a different river with a different head of fish to go at.
A skilled angler that can draw in The fish, can be absolutely lethal on BnW tactics. All methods have their day and it’s the adaptable anglers that are by far the most successful imo not the ones that dismiss a proven method because it involves a chair and a rest.
 
Richard Isaacs said:
Bait and wait can mean many things and it depends so much on the circumstances.
while it might cost you £25 in ground bait and hemp for 8 hours on the Wye, it doesn’t cost me that to put out 3 droppers of hemp and a pva stringer for a 4 hour session on the nene. Both are using bait and wait tactics just a different river with a different head of fish to go at.
A skilled angler that can draw in The fish, can be absolutely lethal on BnW tactics. All methods have their day and it’s the adaptable anglers that are by far the most successful imo not the ones that dismiss a proven method because it involves a chair and a rest.
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A very valid point about the head of fish Richard, and I don't mean just barbel. A couple of years ago I was finding it hard going on the Thames (who doesn't?) but I did wonder if I was underfeeding because of the obviously small head of barbel. It occurred to me that if there were a lot of silvers in the swim then all the free feed may be gone long before any barbel arrive, if indeed they arrived at all with the bait gone. I decided to try very light tackle to see what was in the swim and caught a lot of silvers. Increasing the free feed substantially worked, and I landed two barbel that same evening. Again, it shows the big advantage of visual sighting but I've not found a swim on the Thames where that's possible. Also, as the Thames is not a river I fish that often I was unsure about the head of smaller fish, unlike the Cherwell or WA where I was more familiar with the swims.
 
This will wind him up.
On my last trip to the Avon i found a couple of fish at lunchtime.They were understandably spooky in the gin clear water so i tried a bit of bait and wait.
I saw Pete driving up the track at about 5ish no doubt calling it a day.
They were feeding but still no bites so decided to dropper in a last helping of bait and then fish with the dropper rod on the inside line.
Dusk was approaching so attached my isotopes.
reels 1.JPG
reels 2.JPG

An hour later Bingo a green blur in the gloom
ohnoitsdark.JPG


It flat rodded me twice in the dark

Did i enjoy the experience
Oh Yes

Drove home past all the poxy diversions on the M27 a happy angler ,i had avoided a blank.

Im only 5ft 5 but luckily Petes got a sense of humour

I hope
 
I was tempted a couple of years ago to start a thread called DAYLIGHT SNOBBERY because Petes not alone, theres a few guys who fish the stretches I fish who have a similar attitude. Funnily enough they seem to be the ones who live within about 5 to 10 minutes from the river.
Unfortunately for me where I live in order to get any decent Barbel fishing involves a journey of at least 40 miles.
One local celebrity seems to make a habit of quoting the lack of daylight time behind each capture and now I hear hes moved even closer.
For me it has become more about getting value for money for my fishing time , making the most out of time on the bank and getting a decent return captures wise.
The Avon used to be about finding the fish then once found you droppering in a quantity of hemp and your chosen hookbait over a certain time period according to the size of the group of fish and how they responded. Judgeing your approach to fishing or resting the swim accordingly .Petes right it is a bit of an art and when mastered in the right swim on the right day can indeed be devastatingly effective.
For many years it was pretty much all i did but in angling it doesnt pay to be too dogmatic in your approach and as the fish stocks have changed and some have grown older and wiser ive found myself adapting accordingly.These days if fortunate enough to locate any fish just dropping a hookbait straight in with PVA bag of crumb just upstream can bring about an instant response or sometimes a half and half approach of flicking in a few baits first and seeing how they respond can be the way to go.
As time has gone by the fishing has got harder and the roads have got busier so therefore I have found myself giving it a couple of hours after dusk if the daytime hasn’t produced, even after baiting and waiting, and quite often it can save the day. Then back on the road for another soul destroying hours journey through the roadworks.
At the end of the day its just fishing, its a pastime ,and as long as the fish come to no harm and you dont break any rules you can fish how you like and when you like.
As a footnote to my previous post ,in case anybody didn’t get the joke, im using his reels .Brilliant they are too .Next level Swallows. I modify them temporarily for after dark by inserting an isotope into a ptfe bush. The ratchet alerts you to the bite but when using more than one rod the isotope tells me which rod .I just pull it out and pop it in my pocket and carry on playing the fish. Ironic though don’t you think.
Sorry Pete (i know he reads this) .But your article was a tad condescending and in places insulting to some .
 
Bob Edwards said:
I was tempted a couple of years ago to start a thread called DAYLIGHT SNOBBERY because Petes not alone, theres a few guys who fish the stretches I fish who have a similar attitude. Funnily enough they seem to be the ones who live within about 5 to 10 minutes from the river.
Unfortunately for me where I live in order to get any decent Barbel fishing involves a journey of at least 40 miles.
One local celebrity seems to make a habit of quoting the lack of daylight time behind each capture and now I hear hes moved even closer.
For me it has become more about getting value for money for my fishing time , making the most out of time on the bank and getting a decent return captures wise.
The Avon used to be about finding the fish then once found you droppering in a quantity of hemp and your chosen hookbait over a certain time period according to the size of the group of fish and how they responded. Judgeing your approach to fishing or resting the swim accordingly .Petes right it is a bit of an art and when mastered in the right swim on the right day can indeed be devastatingly effective.
For many years it was pretty much all i did but in angling it doesnt pay to be too dogmatic in your approach and as the fish stocks have changed and some have grown older and wiser ive found myself adapting accordingly.These days if fortunate enough to locate any fish just dropping a hookbait straight in with PVA bag of crumb just upstream can bring about an instant response or sometimes a half and half approach of flicking in a few baits first and seeing how they respond can be the way to go.
As time has gone by the fishing has got harder and the roads have got busier so therefore I have found myself giving it a couple of hours after dusk if the daytime hasn’t produced, even after baiting and waiting, and quite often it can save the day. Then back on the road for another soul destroying hours journey through the roadworks.
At the end of the day its just fishing, its a pastime ,and as long as the fish come to no harm and you dont break any rules you can fish how you like and when you like.
As a footnote to my previous post ,in case anybody didn’t get the joke, im using his reels .Brilliant they are too .Next level Swallows. I modify them temporarily for after dark by inserting an isotope into a ptfe bush. The ratchet alerts you to the bite but when using more than one rod the isotope tells me which rod .I just pull it out and pop it in my pocket and carry on playing the fish. Ironic though don’t you think.
Sorry Pete (i know he reads this) .But your article was a tad condescending and in places insulting to some .
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Serious question, if you only had access to club waters that didn’t have closed waiting lists, if you see what in saying, do you think this would be possible?
With increase angling pressure this year (and my limited bank time) I’ve not been able to tempt a Barbel to as much as break cover.
 
I think i know where your coming from Stephen but even on the syndicate stretches its been tough and ive definately seen more bodies about what with furloughing etc.
I dont know what others think but i still think hemping is a worthwhile tactic sometimes and with a bit of care and practice its surprising how little disturbance it can cause,dropping in off the top of weed for example.
Hardest bit is finding them in the first place and when you do find em capitalising on it.Theres some bloody good fish spotters about.
 
Heres a question that I think is still on topic gents Bait and Wait or Hemping Who invented it ?
I seem to remember an article by Stef Horak where he claimed to of invented it on the Severn in the mid nineties when fishing a swim that was some distance from the car.He apparently would carry his bait buckets and rods to the swim ,dropper in a load of hemp before returning to the car to fetch the rest of his gear.When he started fishing he got instant action and realised that leaving the fish to just have a munch undisturbed had primed his swim.
I also remember going to an old NASA conference I think in 1988 and listening to the late great Tony Miles giving a talk on barbel and describing how he would bait a couple of spots on the Cherwell all day before finally casting out at dusk.
My own earliest experience though was also my first Barbel. It was the summer of 1986 and I was still a keen carper but also getting keen on other species.I had recently won some prizes with my local Pompey club with a 2.06 roach and believe it or not a 4.14 chub from a stretch of the Stour the club had access to .But I was still after my first Barbel when a carper mate Pete Fry managed the unthinkable and caught a double from Severals.
When I heard this I asked him for a few pointers and he said he would take me down and show me his approach .He also told me what I would need bait and tackle wise .Three pints of maggots ,three pints of hemp ,Large blockend feeders and size 12 super specialists.
He showed me a swim on a bend where hed caught a few from before and felt sure they would be on that day.The river was gin clear but because of the depth of water we were unable to make out the bottom and were effectively fishing blind .This is where it got weird, he said to mix the hemp and casters equally into the feeder and cast into a run in the raununculus every ten minutes for about an hour and a half and, oh yeah, don’t put on a hooklink.The look on my face must have been a picture cos he proceeded downstream to another spot having a right old chuckle.
Anyway the guy knew his stuff (still does) and I did what I was told. After the hour and a half he was back in my swim where he told me to not cast out for half an hour .I recast, still with no hooklink, and we watched the rod top .After a few minutes it started giving a few knocks and Pete said. "Theyre out there mate".
I finally cast out with two maggots and trembling hands ,the rod didn’t even make it to the rest .Wallop I was into my first Boris of about six pounds and the love affair began. Not with Pete ,the barbel. I couldn’t be homosexual , I don’t like pain.
Two more of similar size soon followed before he told me to rest the swim for half an hour.I ended the day with six I think before running out of bait.
It was around this time that we started to hear about some bloke called Hooper who was combining Hemp with corn and using a dropper to great effect.
So there you go guys anybody know of anybody doing it any earlier ?
Bloody Hell that was almost an article I wonder if Anglers Mail might be interested ,no probably not.
Didn’t slag anybody off.
 
Yes ive heard of that aswell Stephen but personally id class that as prebaiting, to my way of thinking Bait and wait is done on the day of fishing or during a session .
 
Dont get me started on prebaiting .I could have a right old rant about the hypocrisy behind some of that.
Maybe for another time.
 
I’m not sure I’ve actually heard Horak ever lay claim to inventing the ‘bait and wait’ method, but being the modest type he is, it is just the sort of claim he might make!

Your exactly right about the way in which they stumbled upon the method on it on the Severn, and by they it was in conjunction with another partner in crime whose name escapes me. Peter something? Not Reading.

I think this was in the late 70’s before Stef moved down to the South coast in the early 80’s to be closer to the Stour and Avon and it was on the clear waters of the Avon and Stour that Stef refined his hemp and caster/maggot methods. Bloody brilliant angler imo.
 
I think it often the case that new methods and techniques are the result of ‘parallel development’ by anglers in different parts of the country, who keep things under wraps.

The hair-rig being a good example, I know it’s widely attributed to have been invented by Kevin Maddocks and Lenny Middleton, and I don’t doubt for a minute that they did come up with idea themselves, but there is also clear evidence that the hair-rig was also being used by other anglers at the time, but that they were keeping the method under their hats.

It wouldn’t surprise me if this was the case with the ‘bait and wait’ method.
 
Well i stand corrected then gentlemen unlike some i dont mind admitting when i may of got it wrong or as you say could of been different groups of anglers coming up with similar ideas around the same time. Makes no difference to me though my old mate Pete Fry is still a Legend in my eyes.He joined the merchant navy and kind of left the scene for a while but now i hear hes back and joined a mega secret carp syndicate near Reading showing Chris Tarrant how to catch near record carp.
 
Rob Paylor said:
Good luck spotting barbel in the 20 feet deep channel i'm pulling a few out of on the Yorkshire Ouse. In fact, of all the rivers I have fished, I don't think I've ever seen one in the 2 years I've barbel fished unless either 1) it's attached to the end of my line or 2) it's rolled out on the surface just before my rod rips off 😂
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And this is why different rivers require different approaches.
If you turned up here and cast every 20 minutes with a feeder full of bits, in a likely looking spot, you might get very lucky but you would most likely blank.
I wasted a good couple of years following generic barbel advice that really wasn’t very applicable or even appropriate to the venue I fish. Something I think most of us would relate to in one way or another.
 
Stephen Crowhurst said:
And this is why different rivers require different approaches.
If you turned up here and cast every 20 minutes with a feeder full of bits, in a likely looking spot, you might get very lucky but you would most likely blank.
I wasted a good couple of years following generic barbel advice that really wasn’t very applicable or even appropriate to the venue I fish. Something I think most of us would relate to in one way or another.
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Yep, I spent a season or two fishing for tench on the Cheshire Meres using methods much better suited to harder bottomed, deeper gravel pits, it took me a while to get to grips with a more suitable approach. All part of the learning curve.
 
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