Graham Elliott
Senior Member & Supporter
To be honest the best bet is to send 10kg to a few of us and gain a view after the first couple of months.
Four more anglers needed
Four more anglers needed
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Making your own bait.
- Thread starter Simon Archer
- Start date
Richard Dawson
Senior Member
I trialled mine on the lower Derwent when creating boilies.
Low stocked but did know there were fish in there over a few stretches, and knew most people who did an overnighter either blanked or banked one fish typically.
I fished it for ages with off the shelf "shelf life" and freezer boilies like Sticky Krill and Source and never had any luck over my first season fishing from June until late into October.
It was season 2 i started making my own baits and pretty much instant results, it was a rare occurance to blank, and most visits ended up in a brace of doubles, one particular visit ended up in a brace of doubles and also 2 lost runs (one hook pull and one lost to snags) so the potential for 4 fish in a single night which is unheard of on there.
I think middle trent is useful to see if your bait is palatable, but it's highly stocked so chances are something will pick it up anyway, and then you don't know if your bait is any better than all the commercial mainstream stuff that goes in there.
I think if you can test your baits at a lower stocked venue but choose pegs you know have produced fish, and fish your baits over several visits, you'll get to see if they work. Could also fish 2 rods and have a mainstream bait on the other one to see if yours outfishes it.
Low stocked but did know there were fish in there over a few stretches, and knew most people who did an overnighter either blanked or banked one fish typically.
I fished it for ages with off the shelf "shelf life" and freezer boilies like Sticky Krill and Source and never had any luck over my first season fishing from June until late into October.
It was season 2 i started making my own baits and pretty much instant results, it was a rare occurance to blank, and most visits ended up in a brace of doubles, one particular visit ended up in a brace of doubles and also 2 lost runs (one hook pull and one lost to snags) so the potential for 4 fish in a single night which is unheard of on there.
I think middle trent is useful to see if your bait is palatable, but it's highly stocked so chances are something will pick it up anyway, and then you don't know if your bait is any better than all the commercial mainstream stuff that goes in there.
I think if you can test your baits at a lower stocked venue but choose pegs you know have produced fish, and fish your baits over several visits, you'll get to see if they work. Could also fish 2 rods and have a mainstream bait on the other one to see if yours outfishes it.
Joe Winstanley
Senior Member & Supporter
Do you really think the Middle is that heavily stocked that you couldn't determine over a decent number of sessions if a particular bait is providing an edge?
Two-rodding...that downstream rod is always going to have an advantage, ime, which would skew the results.
Joe Winstanley
Senior Member & Supporter
Personally I'd need a very high degree of confidence in the bait I'd be using before starting a baiting campaign on the Upper.
Richard Dawson
Senior Member
I'd alternate the baits between upstream and downstream rods to see if there's any difference.
Depends where on the middle, somewhere like BDAAS stretch at Fiskerton fishes well even in the daytime, 2 or 3 fish achievable particularly in September onwards when they seem to be on the munch.
Robert West
Senior Member & Supporter
When alls said and done there’s no right or wrong way, it’s about what you want to get out of the experience.
Myself I make my own baits, make my own mixes and they’ve been effective, but I’ve been known to use a northern special
At the moment ive been blending mealworms adding it to ground pellets fishmeals and binders plus a couple of hydrosates
To make a bait that works, but more importantly ive enjoyed the journey
Myself I make my own baits, make my own mixes and they’ve been effective, but I’ve been known to use a northern special
At the moment ive been blending mealworms adding it to ground pellets fishmeals and binders plus a couple of hydrosates
To make a bait that works, but more importantly ive enjoyed the journey
Richard Parsons
Senior Member
Ha - tell me about it. I did actually catch a brace on homemade boilies, but it took me over a season. I'd be sitting there all night wondering (over quite a few sessions) if it was the bait, then I'd lose faith and put on a shelfie. And still blank. In the back of my mind I reasoned that there were probably no barbel about, but I just couldn't get any confidence in my own bait. The thing is (as you've pointed out, Joe), I realised I blank more often than not on that stretch so decided to not take an alternative option and stick it out for a few sessions. Came good in the end, even if I've mainly blanked since. It's a hard river, but worth persevering in my view.
Simon Archer
Senior Member & Supporter
Wasn't going to post on this thread again, but thought some of you might like to see the fruits of our labour.
My mates 8 egg mix on his take of Scopex Squid ready for his trip to his syndicate on Thursday.
My possible bait for next season. Spicy Liver and Peperami.
Red and natural
All 14mm round.
My mates 8 egg mix on his take of Scopex Squid ready for his trip to his syndicate on Thursday.
My possible bait for next season. Spicy Liver and Peperami.
Red and natural
All 14mm round.
Kevin Brown
Senior Member & Supporter
So basically all you’ve done is buy a ready made base mix and added CLO with garlic and chilli ?
It’s not a criticism , but I thought you wanted to start from scratch with a new formulated base mix , or is this just to get you going with making your very own bait .
It’s not a criticism , but I thought you wanted to start from scratch with a new formulated base mix , or is this just to get you going with making your very own bait .
Simon Archer
Senior Member & Supporter
Yeah, pretty much.
Connor Smith
Senior Member
Why wasn't you going to post on here again @Simon Archer . This thread inspired me to get making some bait again for the coming season.
It was either that or try the new pro stim liver from cc Moore but thought if I put a bit of effort in and made my own I know I'd be fishing with something I have more confidence in. Time will be an issue so I'll probably buy some of that new bait for them times where I just haven't had time to knock some bait together but Ill deffo be making my own this season when I can.
It was either that or try the new pro stim liver from cc Moore but thought if I put a bit of effort in and made my own I know I'd be fishing with something I have more confidence in. Time will be an issue so I'll probably buy some of that new bait for them times where I just haven't had time to knock some bait together but Ill deffo be making my own this season when I can.
Simon Archer
Senior Member & Supporter
I started this topic as a bit of close season fun, that's all. Documenting my mate and I, boilie making journey. It go a little out of hand and I lost interest in posting on it. I put the last few pictures up for those interested to see how we were progressing.
I've smelt the Pro stim Liver and I wasn't that impressed TBH. Wasn't a great smelling bait IMO and was expecting it to be nicer. Probably just me though, as my sense of smell is a little buggered due to having my nose broken a few times whilst playing Rugby.
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Kevin Brown
Senior Member & Supporter
I’m glad you did , it’s got me on a journey of bait research now , I mean all the big bait companies must get there ingredients from the likes of BAF AA etc You look at DNA , Nutrabaits and Sticky etc and they all push the same Hydros, oils , Ingredient's and flavours that AA and BAF sell . Making your own bait you could have the same stuff without the cutting for a lot less dollars , so better quality base mix for less money .
Even a simple bait glug is easily made in the kitchen for a lot less than off the shelf stuff , it’s only 50% glycerin with a couple of ingredients and flavour / oil .
Terry Harman
Senior Member & Supporter
Fish don’t care what bait smells like otherwise we wouldn’t be using N butryic acid etc a smell is just a label ..that you would probably only need fishing the same stretch of river on a long campaign…otherwise you could use a decent base mix with no flavour and it wouldn’t make any difference
The reason I use a bought base mix instead of making one myself is that companies that supply base mixes have been extensively field testing them for months on different waters tweaking them here and there swapping out ingredients etc
It’s not as easy as buying a load of ingredients from AA and shoving them in a bowl and mixing it up there will be additives / ingredients that cancel each other out ingredients that don’t work with others etc
There are two things you should be looking for in a base mix digestabillaty and how soluble it is .. it needs to be digestible so fish want to eat it and it needs to be soluble so it breaks down in the swim giving off lots of attraction and feeding triggers ..,most of us don’t have the knowledge to achieve that it’s a very complex subject.. so why don’t I use ready mades ?… I like my bait to be as fresh as possible either made just before I go fishing or at worst the night before
Gavin Burt
Senior Member
Absolutely this.
A barbel’s natural diet consists of slugs, worms, insect larvae and mussels. None of which give off a strong scent compared to flavours in home made bait.
Also, remember what you smell through your nose is very different to how a fish smells. Their key trigger is amino acids (which all of the above foodstuffs give off) plus bile acids which are given off by them post digestion.
Flavours added to bait I believe just give off the “ooh there’s that nice smell that was present when I ate those yummy boilies”. Rather then “ooh I love that flavour”.
Andrew Jackson
Senior Member & Supporter
I'm not sure I agree with your assertion that fish don't care what your bait smells like. You're assuming that fish are attracted to the same smells as we are! I agree with you that aminos are a big part of the attraction. The early Premier baits mixes were put together on that principle with either very low or no artificial flavours in them but, all that aside, you can't deny ( surely) that some artificial flavours are much more attractive to Carp and other fish than others even if they stink to us ( Monster Crab for example). Why exactly this is we don't really know but they certainly care more for some than they do others. Whether that's due to alteration in PH levels around the bait as I've heard or some other reason I don't know.
If what you say is correct that they don't care what your bait smells like they would all work the same. They don't though.
Andrew Jackson
Senior Member & Supporter
I'm not sure I agree with your assertion that fish don't care what your bait smells like. You're assuming that fish are attracted to the same smells as we are! I agree with you that aminos are a big part of the attraction. The early Premier baits mixes were put together on that principle with either very low or no artificial flavours in them but, all that aside, you can't deny ( surely) that some artificial flavours are much more attractive to Carp and other fish than others even if they stink to us ( Monster Crab for example). Why exactly this is we don't really know but they certainly care more for some than they do others. Whether that's due to alteration in PH levels around the bait as I've heard or some other reason I don't know.
If what you say is correct that they don't care what your bait smells like they would all work the same. They don't though.
Andrew Jackson
Senior Member & Supporter
And yes, I appreciate fish don't 'smell' in the same sense as we do obviously.
Kevin Brown
Senior Member & Supporter
If they didn’t care what a flavour smells like , the 50/50 mixes would never work as they have very little nutritional value and rely solely on the flavours pulling power / attraction.
A decent base mix with a big enough food signal needs no flavour , a point I’m going to prove to myself this year
A decent base mix with a big enough food signal needs no flavour , a point I’m going to prove to myself this year
Andrew Jackson
Senior Member & Supporter
I agree Kevin. You can have a good bait without any artificial flavours ( Premier baits I used to use just fish oil in the mix which was a pungent fishmeal based bait) but as you say, flavours work on their attraction properties. Fish definitely care about them and how they smell or, more likely, there reaction in the water with the fishes senses.If they didn’t care what a flavour smells like , the 50/50 mixes would never work as they have very little nutritional value and rely solely on the flavours pulling power / attraction.
A decent base mix with a big enough food signal needs no flavour , a point I’m going to prove to myself this year