Making your own bait.

[Alan Palmer]

I agree Kevin. You can have a good bait without any artificial flavours ( Premier baits I used to use just fish oil in the mix which was a pungent fishmeal based bait) but as you say, flavours work on their attraction properties. Fish definitely care about them and how they smell or, more likely, their reaction in the water with the fishes senses.

IMO it’s a bit more like the quote in Jurassic park ‘you can’t alter a million years worth of evolution’ ….fish will just associate the baits food signal (smell/scent etc) with eating something they instinctively know is nutritious for their needs and seek it out if they pick up a scent trail. If application is done correctly they will have more positive experiences from eating it than negative ones from being caught on it so it should take longer to ‘blow’ in contrast to a high attract low nutrition bait they don’t associate with a food source anyway!

 

[Terry Harman]

If they didn’t care what a flavour smells like , the 50/50 mixes would never work as they have very little nutritional value and rely solely on the flavours pulling power / attraction.

A decent base mix with a big enough food signal needs no flavour , a point I’m going to prove to myself this year

Do 50/50 base mixes work then ? Never used one can’t be using rubbish bait

 

[Terry Harman]

IMO it’s a bit more like the quote in Jurassic park ‘you can’t alter a million years worth of evolution’ ….fish will just associate the baits food signal (smell/scent etc) with eating something they instinctively know is nutritious for their needs and seek it out if they pick up a scent trail. If application is done correctly they will have more positive experiences from eating it than negative ones from being caught on it so it should take longer to ‘blow’ in contrast to a high attract low nutrition bait they don’t associate with a food source anyway!

Exactly this …flavour is just a label

 

[Kevin Brown]

Do 50/50 base mixes work then ? Never used one can’t be using rubbish bait

Absolutely in the short term , pair them with a good flavour they can be devastating

No doubt you have used hemp maggots worms castors
Not sure how much nutritional value is in those baits

 

[Damian Kimmins]

Do 50/50 base mixes work then ? Never used one can’t be using rubbish bait

John Baker's Frost and Flood mix worked - for a while.

 

[Kevin Brown]

Exactly this …flavour is just a label

No I don’t think so , a good flavour emits a food signal , they’ve no idea what’s in the base mix for them , but the initial attraction is from the flavour , this is why we use low flavour levels in HNV baits because we want the base mix doing all the work long term , it’s the opposite in low value baits and why they only work short term , because there’s not much nutritional value in it for them hence higher flavour levels
There’s a really good chapter in Rods book Carp strikes Back , and illustrates flavour levels in bait
Too high it repels and too low there’s not enough pulling power
We want an happy medium but ultimately if it’s of low nutrition they get wary of it and shy away eventually.

 

[Damian Kimmins]

It depends upon the base and make up of the flavour.

 

[Oliver Harfield]

Plenty of nutrition in maggots and castors.

Not so sure about hemp!

 

[Gavin Burt]

I’ve bought some BAF TropAmino HMBB Basemix and going to fish it on one stretch of the river this season with zero flavour to see how I get on.

Historically I’ve always used a JB flavour with base mix so will interested to see how I get on.

Have started the pre-baiting campaign already.

 

[Kevin Brown]

I’ve bought some BAF TropAmino HMBB Basemix and going to fish it on one stretch of the river this season with zero flavour to see how I get on.

Historically I’ve always used a JB flavour with base mix so will interested to see how I get on.

Have started the pre-baiting campaign already.

Im picking 5k up tomorrow from BAF going to use it with two JB flavours although like you I’m convinced it’ll work without
I’m contemplating adding 50g beef liver per 1k just for a bit of personalisation .
They won’t let me in the FB HMBB group , tried 3 times now

 

[Richard Isaacs]

I’ve bought some BAF TropAmino HMBB Basemix and going to fish it on one stretch of the river this season with zero flavour to see how I get on.

Historically I’ve always used a JB flavour with base mix so will interested to see how I get on.

Have started the pre-baiting campaign already.

I used my base mix completely flavorless for more than half of last season with as much success as it was when it was very slightly flavored.

That’s when you know a base mix is a very good one and well established. They home straight in to find it and love to eat it. Far too many anglers over flavour the bait and get too over hyped about the flavour but in reality a flavour is only really needed if you are fishing a short term water to draw fish to your bait

It’s certainly not needed if your able to establish your bait properly and if you do want a flavour to create a little label it should be really really low and subtle.

Too strong and the bait will eventually blow.

 

[Terry Harman]

No I don’t think so , a good flavour emits a food signal , they’ve no idea what’s in the base mix for them , but the initial attraction is from the flavour , this is why we use low flavour levels in HNV baits because we want the base mix doing all the work long term , it’s the opposite in low value baits and why they only work short term , because there’s not much nutritional value in it for them hence higher flavour levels
There’s a really good chapter in Rods book Carp strikes Back , and illustrates flavour levels in bait
Too high it repels and too low there’s not enough pulling power
We want an happy medium but ultimately if it’s of low nutrition they get wary of it and shy away eventually.

Kev I don’t think an EA flavour would emit a food signal there’s no food value to it…..and it wouldn’t be in your bait long enough unless you are casting every 10 mins
I use low levels in all my bait but you are right about the base mix doing all the work anyone using low value baits are making it hard for themselves … I think there is a difference with bait if you are fishing rivers as opposed to lakes the application is completely different ……the main thing for me when applying baits to a river is solubility I like it to break down very quickly

 

[Terry Harman]

I used my base mix completely flavorless for more than half of last season with as much success as it was when it was very slightly flavored.

That’s when you know a base mix is a very good one and well established. They home straight in to find it and love to eat it. Far too many anglers over flavour the bait and get too over hyped about the flavour but in reality a flavour is only really needed if you are fishing a short term water to draw fish to your bait

It’s certainly not needed if your able to establish your bait properly and if you do want a flavour to create a little label it should be really really low and subtle.

Too strong and the bait will eventually blow.

We are fishing the same stretch and pretty much the same spots when you wasn’t using flavour rich and I was using it at low levels we were both using the exact same base mix…..and our catch returns were very similar to me it proves once a bait is established you can drop the label

 

[Gavin Burt]

Im picking 5k up tomorrow from BAF going to use it with two JB flavours although like you I’m convinced it’ll work without
I’m contemplating adding 50g beef liver per 1k just for a bit of personalisation .
They won’t let me in the FB HMBB group , tried 3 times now

Hahah - they wouldn’t let me in either.

For those that don’t know you can buy it from the BAF website and it’s well priced:

TropAmino HMBB Basemix

TropAmino HMBB Basemix - this well proven recipe has proved very, very successful for the Home Made Bait Buffs (HMBB) group on Facebook, BAF is delighted to have been asked to supply this Basemix not only for their members, but also to general public alike.The Basemix blends our Tropical Fruit...

www.britishaquafeeds.com

 

[Kevin Brown]

Kev I don’t think an EA flavour would emit a food signal there’s no food value to it…..and it wouldn’t be in your bait long enough unless you are casting every 10 mins
I use low levels in all my bait but you are right about the base mix doing all the work anyone using low value baits are making it hard for themselves … I think there is a difference with bait if you are fishing rivers as opposed to lakes the application is completely different ……the main thing for me when applying baits to a river is solubility I like it to break down very quickly

All flavours emit a food signal that’s the whole point of them , wether alcohol or glycol based , that packet of cheese an onion crisps I ate yesterday didn’t have any cheese or onion in there but cleverly made up flavours that just want me to eat the whole packet in seconds !
There’s a massive industry making foods with ingredients that want us to eat more and more , that’s what Taste F2 is based on . Also making us all fat and unhealthy.
Flavours emit a food signal and create a better tasting food with better palatably at the same time .
A good flavour can still be smelled in a bait even after it’s been out in the water for hours , even one buried in silt .
In your case the flavour is probably the label and as Rich as proved isn’t needed when the base mix gets accepted and they know it’s a better food source than anything out there .

I used to put strawberry flavoured Angel Delight in base mixes , now I realise it worked because the strawberry flavour in there was soluble and designed to be mixed with milk , I didn’t realise this at the time but the bait boffins knew this and capitalised on it .

Scopex was another flavour that was designed on fruit turning in the autumn , Rod realised the birds would know when an apple was just turning from sugar to alcohol and based the flavour on this , it turned out to be one of the greatest flavours of all time and this was over 40 years ago ! And still used today . He was using flavours like Monster Crab Chocolate Malt in 50/50 mixes in the Colne valley as living in Lincolnshire made it impossible to prebait thus relying on the flavour to do all the work.

So I don’t think we can say flavours are just a label , they play a massive part in bait formulation and sending out the right food signal at the right levels .

 

[Richard Isaacs]

All flavours emit a food signal that’s the whole point of them , wether alcohol or glycol based , that packet of cheese an onion crisps I ate yesterday didn’t have any cheese or onion in there but cleverly made up flavours that just want me to eat the whole packet in seconds !
There’s a massive industry making foods with ingredients that want us to eat more and more , that’s what Taste F2 is based on . Also making us all fat and unhealthy.
Flavours emit a food signal and create a better tasting food with better palatably at the same time .
A good flavour can still be smelled in a bait even after it’s been out in the water for hours , even one buried in silt .
In your case the flavour is probably the label and as Rich as proved isn’t needed when the base mix gets accepted and they know it’s a better food source than anything out there .

I used to put strawberry flavoured Angel Delight in base mixes , now I realise it worked because the strawberry flavour in there was soluble and designed to be mixed with milk , I didn’t realise this at the time but the bait boffins knew this and capitalised on it .

Scopex was another flavour that was designed on fruit turning in the autumn , Rod realised the birds would know when an apple was just turning from sugar to alcohol and based the flavour on this , it turned out to be one of the greatest flavours of all time and this was over 40 years ago ! And still used today . He was using flavours like Monster Crab Chocolate Malt in 50/50 mixes in the Colne valley as living in Lincolnshire made it impossible to prebait thus relying on the flavour to do all the work.

So I don’t think we can say flavours are just a label , they play a massive part in bait formulation and sending out the right food signal at the right levels .

I don’t disagree, you can use a flavour to enhance or change the “taste” of your bait but it’s very rare people actually do this and to do this you only need tiny tiny amounts in order to keep your bait palatable. In these rare cases you have to ask yourself…. Is the flavour even necessary at all?

90% of anglers use a flavour to draw fish onto a bait through scent.
taste isn’t even considered. They make it quite pungent and strong. This is a short term bait designed to get a quick bite.
It will work but I doubt it tastes very nice and if you read what John says about these baits, you catch them on bait rejection rather than acceptance.

After a while the fish learn this scent leads to baits that are overpowered and not particularly nice to eat. That’s the point at which your bait has blown and of very little use going forward.

You need a decent stock of fish and a water that you visit not too frequently for these short term over powered baits to be a winner. Collingham weir would be a perfect example and we’ve seen it tear the place up using things like pandemic.

A good thing to take note of is your hook hold. If majority of your captures are hooked right in the front of the lip or you tend to get afew hook pulls, it’s a good indication that your flavour might be a little on the stronger side and your hooking them as they blow it back out.
just a simple reduction to make it more palatable, could see them take it further into the mouth cavity before being hooked by the rig and it could very well reduce your losses too simply because it’s a tasty bait and not a high attraction over powered one.

 

[Kevin Brown]

I don’t disagree, you can use a flavour to enhance or change the “taste” of your bait but it’s very rare people actually do this and to do this you only need tiny tiny amounts in order to keep your bait palatable. In these rare cases you have to ask yourself…. Is the flavour even necessary at all?

90% of anglers use a flavour to draw fish onto a bait through scent.
taste isn’t even considered. They make it quite pungent and strong. This is a short term bait designed to get a quick bite.
It will work but I doubt it tastes very nice and if you read what John says about these baits, you catch them on bait rejection rather than acceptance.

After a while the fish learn this scent leads to baits that are overpowered and not particularly nice to eat. That’s the point at which your bait has blown and of very little use going forward.

You need a decent stock of fish and a water that you visit not too frequently for these short term over powered baits to be a winner. Collingham weir would be a perfect example and we’ve seen it tear the place up using things like pandemic.

A good thing to take note of is your hook hold. If majority of your captures are hooked right in the front of the lip or you tend to get afew hook pulls, it’s a good indication that your flavour might be a little on the stronger side and your hooking them as they blow it back out.
just a simple reduction to make it more palatable, could see them take it further into the mouth cavity before being hooked by the rig and it could very well reduce your losses too simply because it’s a tasty bait and not a high attraction over powered one.

I actually did say this in an earlier post about getting an happy medium with flavour levels , hopefully the bait company have done enough field testing to give you the correct level .

In an HNV bait with a good food signal a flavour may not be necessary , but may take longer to get established , I’ve read a few who make their own bait and use no flavour .

It’s in a lower value bait where a good flavour comes in to its own and you’re almost tricking the fish into thinking here’s something nice to eat .

I also think it’s were glugs , goo , smart liquids , smoke etc and such have become fashionable, the off the shelf stuff isn’t good enough to get a bite and we have drown baits in all sorts of concoctions to get a bite .

 

[Richard Isaacs]

I actually did say this in an earlier post about getting an happy medium with flavour levels , hopefully the bait company have done enough field testing to give you the correct level .

See I don’t believe a happy medium is of much benefit. It’s probably too high for a long term “taste” approach and probably too low for a short term “ scent attraction ” approach. It will catch but I think it would be better flavored according to the venue.

I think the most successful baits (depending 100% on the water your fishing and the frequency you fish it) either need to be very very low or very very high

By going down the middle your not really playing the bait to it’s strength on the day.

 

[Chris Thomson]

Establishing a bait can be difficult as its dependant on how often you can fish or bait and how busy a stretch is

 

[Julian Griffiths]

Same here. If I could id have all mine made in cubes, I roll my own in dumbbells due to time but all my hookbaits are made by hand into little square and brick shapes. Surely this helps them not roll around on the river bed. Also, how many people are using square baits? Maybe being a little different and the barbel seeing hundreds of round balls of food, they might now associate these with danger. The key words there are 'might' and 'maybe' because we could all be giving them a bit more credit and over thinking it.

Small 1 or 2 egg mixs allows me to make all kind of shapes by hand, doesn't take long at all.
Whereas 6 egg mix is torture!
Brought some plastic molds last year to allow another shape to be created