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tut tut

Was he actually fishing, ie, using a baited hook, or were he and the photographer just taking establishing shots for the proposed article. Maybe the weather was right, and there'd be no other anglers around so it was a good opportunity to get some shots for the article. If he wasn't using a baited hook, he aint breaking the law.

Maybe the plan was to take a load of pics, then use a stock photo of him with a barbel for the feature.

Or maybe he was breaking the law.
 
I have used worm for Trout in April and May in a local stream that only really holds Trout.

Each region has seperate rules Environment Agency - Rod Fishing Byelaws

From the North West document:

During the period from and including the 15th day of March to and including the 15th day of June in any year in rivers, streams and those parts of rivers canalised for navigation:
(a) fishing will only be allowed with minnow, worm, shrimp, prawn or artificial flies or lures; and
(b) the use of any lure or bait not on or attached to a hook is prohibited.

then

Byelaw 16 Worm fishing
No person shall, excepting as hereinafter provided, use in fishing for salmon or trout a worm baited on more than a single hook and such hook shall not exceed 40 millimetres in length overall nor 15 millimetres in width of gape and the weight or weights used to sink the hook shall not in any case exceed 30 grams in the aggregate; provided that a tackle of two or three hooks may be so used if tied one above the other upon a single strand of gut or other artificial substitute material and if each of such hooks does not exceed 15 millimetres in length and is not more than 8 millimetres in width of gape.

Can someone please point out any part of the legislation that says I'm not allowed to worm for Trout?
 
Carl McGuire said:
I have used worm for Trout in April and May in a local stream that only really holds Trout.

Each region has seperate rules Environment Agency - Rod Fishing Byelaws

From the North West document:

During the period from and including the 15th day of March to and including the 15th day of June in any year in rivers, streams and those parts of rivers canalised for navigation:
(a) fishing will only be allowed with minnow, worm, shrimp, prawn or artificial flies or lures; and
(b) the use of any lure or bait not on or attached to a hook is prohibited.

then

Byelaw 16 Worm fishing
No person shall, excepting as hereinafter provided, use in fishing for salmon or trout a worm baited on more than a single hook and such hook shall not exceed 40 millimetres in length overall nor 15 millimetres in width of gape and the weight or weights used to sink the hook shall not in any case exceed 30 grams in the aggregate; provided that a tackle of two or three hooks may be so used if tied one above the other upon a single strand of gut or other artificial substitute material and if each of such hooks does not exceed 15 millimetres in length and is not more than 8 millimetres in width of gape.

Can someone please point out any part of the legislation that says I'm not allowed to worm for Trout?
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why cannot they just make it simple, i can see why so many plead ignorance when they get caught.:confused:
 
JE wrote:
Still i find it very hard to belive that a barbel photo shoot/fishing session would have the photograper fishing rather than the well know angler who writes all these magazine articles i mean surely the professional photographer would be busy taking pic as they aint cheap to hire for the day or perhaps i'm just being a bit cynical eh.
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The more baits you have in the water, the more chance of hooking a fish. If the photographer had one on, he could just hand it over to 'Uncle Bob' and then take the necessary shots. Shoot over and cost of photographer reduced by 'n' hours.

Anyone know where bailiffs sell-off confiscated goods?;)
 
David Hall said:
why cannot they just make it simple, i can see why so many plead ignorance when they get caught.:confused:
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I entirely agree, a decent defence lawyer would have a field day.

There is no excuse for targeting course fish but fishing for Trout and/or Salmon with the appropriate rod license using allowed baits is entirely legal from my understanding of the regulations.
 
Carl McGuire said:
I entirely agree, a decent defence lawyer would have a field day.

There is no excuse for targeting course fish but fishing for Trout and/or Salmon with the appropriate rod license using allowed baits is entirely legal from my understanding of the regulations.
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Ah now theres the thing , we had some anglers fly fishing for coarse fish on a weir last year knowing there was salmon running but only got coarse licence and accidently caught a salmon , how much cheaper is a coarse licence ? be interesting to hear the full story , as regards bait or not I would suggest that by saying he was fishing then my guess a bait of some kind was involved
 
I am told he was free- lining Pellets something he dose like to do and something out of the norm but we will have to wait and see what happens ???. I know what would happen if it was you or me in that situation .
 
To make matters even more confusing hows about this - last year i was told by an Environment Agency Bailiff that you only need a Salmon and Sea Trout licence if you intend to take them to eat.
 
James Farrer said:
I am told he was free- lining Pellets something he dose like to do and something out of the norm but we will have to wait and see what happens ???. I know what would happen if it was you or me in that situation .
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You could legally freeline a pellet fly i.e. not a real pellet but an artificial one. You could also use compressed worm and prawn as nowhere does it say that the worm or prawn need to be whole.
 
Andrew Boyne said:
To make matters even more confusing hows about this - last year i was told by an Environment Agency Bailiff that you only need a Salmon and Sea Trout licence if you intend to take them to eat.
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At least your saw an EA man, but he was wrong. To fish for salmon & seatrout you need a migratory fish licence, irrespective of whether the fish is taken or not, which is not allowed in England &Wales before June 16th on any river, nor is any form of bait fishing.
Many regional variations apply to trout fishing, best check out the rules in depth for were you are fishing, could save a hefty fine!
peter
 
As has been said, rules vary across regions and rivers. Bait fishing is usually banned before June 16 on any rivers with a run of salmon. There are exceptions, but in this case it was the Wye and it most certainly is.

Add to this that many owners? clubs also ban various methods. Breeching these may just get you kicked out of the club.

I fail to see what is so complicated, you are required to be aware of the bye laws relating to where you are fishing. Claiming "I wasn't aware of the laws" is actually an admission of your failure not the laws. Perhaps if you are not capable of reading it might just work.....

If an EA bailiff actually said what is reported above then he should be reported to his superior. His advice, if followed, could put somebody in trouble not just with the bye laws but also with the Salmon Act itself. Seriously negligent and a case for dismissal.
 
Peter Littleworth said:
At least your saw an EA man, but he was wrong. To fish for salmon & seatrout you need a migratory fish licence, irrespective of whether the fish is taken or not, which is not allowed in England &Wales before June 16th on any river, nor is any form of bait fishing.
Many regional variations apply to trout fishing, best check out the rules in depth for were you are fishing, could save a hefty fine!
peter
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Yes, unfortunately the conversation took place in a tackle shop not on the bank, and was regarding the use of worm baits during the coarse fish closed season which IS allowed in the North West region.

Pete Marshall said:
As has been said, rules vary across regions and rivers. Bait fishing is usually banned before June 16 on any rivers with a run of salmon. There are exceptions, but in this case it was the Wye and it most certainly is.


If an EA bailiff actually said what is reported above then he should be reported to his superior. His advice, if followed, could put somebody in trouble not just with the bye laws but also with the Salmon Act itself. Seriously negligent and a case for dismissal.
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Thing is Pete - and this was the point of my discussion with him - if someone is fishing worm, how can you define what species is being fished for? I realise it's not allowed on the Wye but it is on my local rivers which do have runs of salmon and sea trout. If i wanted to break the rules ( which i don't ) i could have purposefully fished for Salmon, Sea Trout or even Barbel for that matter using worm baits during the close season using my standard rod licence - but if questioned claim i am fishing for brown trout. How could an EA Officer proove otherwise? I'm guessing that's why he said what he did - because unless i had a dead salmon in my bag it would be impossible for them to proove i was salmon fishing and prosecute. The same could be applied to fly or lure fishing.
 
Always a difficult one. Anglers are often trying to get round various rules, hence the increasingly complicated wording in some regions.

Usually common sense would be applied. If you are fishing with a worm and 8lb + you are going to be after salmon or sea trout rather than brown trout for instance.
Where it can get even more difficulty is on the Teme or the Severn where float fishing for salmon or sea trout is banned and using the worm before 16 June. I fish using basically the same methods and the same tackle for salmon and barbel with a worm on the Teme. I have caught many kelts during the coarse season but before 16 June doing this.

I often float fish for barbel with a worm and have occasional had a summer grilse whilst doing this.
I do have a migratory fish license so I can legally fish for salmon. However I can't fish for them using a worm before 16 June or at any time with a float. As I use exactly the same methods in exactly the same waters I would certainly challenge any EA bailiff to show I was deliberately employing illegal methods.

But what I wouldn't do to defend myself is to use that staple of guilty "I didn't know it was against the law". My missus is a magistrate and has to listen to that particular line from lines of chavs every time she sits .:rolleyes:

By the way, the rules against worm and prawn fishing do have some basis in that if you use traditional worming tactics it is unlikely that the fish will live. Given that it is illegal to remove any salmon in England or Wales before 16 June it would be silly to allow a method that usually kills them any way. However by using circle hooks and coarse fishing tactics (basically sticking as soon as the fish takes the worm, rather than waiting until it has swallowed it) I firmly believe that worm fishing can be used as well as any other method for catch and release.

The ban on float fishing in the Severn catchment was brought about entirely by the posh salmon anglers to prevent working class anglers catching more salmon than them. :( It is the silliest bye law around, annoys me no end...but I still follow it.
 
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I think after all the jokes about Bob...this thread should come to an end..
I forgive Bob for all his sins ect ..ect..ect..

You really need Dave to find something else..he was ok in a passion for angling give him a chance for gods sake..

lets not find any excuse for the moaning about something so little..i think he has had enough,or do you think different ?

paul.
 
I think Dave was highlighting the fact they used a picture of Chris Yates to illustrate an article about poachers! Poor Chris! Was it a case of mistaken identity? I.e. - use a pic of that bloke from passion for angling or is it because Chris fits the general publics stereotypical view of what a fish poacher looks like!! Either way i'd be making a complaint if i was him!
 
Check out last weeks Angling Times , Bob James pours out his soul with regard to the close season business . It's a good article , In my book it's time to draw a veil over the whole sorry business , the chaps had his public kicking , leave him be ...
 
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