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The state of our rivers

Damian Kimmins said:
Does anyone understand the idea that our environment might be in a better place if we have that little bit less!
I am rather looking forward to not having everything whenever it is needed and doing a bit of retuning myself and perhaps ourselves into the natural way of things!
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I couldn't agree more, I'm going to start by cutting out middle men like the water companies, and have a dump in the river everytime I go fishing...😁
 
Ben Marr said:
I couldn't agree more, I'm going to start by cutting out middle men like the water companies, and have a dump in the river everytime I go fishing...😁
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Aye, just make sure you don't go downstream to get your drinking water!
 
I was helping to film a small bit about removing Floating Pennywort on a mates stretch of the Colne today with Countryfile. I pulled my first rake full of Pennywort out to find it was saturated with raw sewage and stunk to high heaven. Needless to say the filming was done from a distance without a presenter . One of the areas I riverfly test is on his stretch too it was crystal clear gravel a month ago. Now its covered in a filthy grey sludge about 2 inches deep. With the high river levels the local sewage works Maple Lodge took full advantage to dump as much filth as possible. A mate was fishing the canal today watching Condoms floating past from one of its outflows. But they will still charge for sewage treatment.
 
Having a good old moan myself last night with a fishing mate of mine.

For our relatively small country I find it deplorable how our successive government's haven't managed and cared for our rivers environment's and ecosystems. I feel absolutely devastated at whats going on, and know others feel the same, but what can we do to change this?

An ever expanding populations in our towns city's running on old victorian quite literally 'shitty' sewage network's, that haven't been fit for purpose for a good number of decades.

I just cannot beleive that we're not being represented by any decent organisation that can put pressures on these water companies /government departments to sort these very sad state of affairs.

Does the environment agency or angler's trust actually do anything for us, seriously do they?
There's god knows how many million anglers out there, and for one reason or another we don't come together to do anything about this. Probably due ti being lazy, or happy to leave it to someone else to sort out... Guilty of some of this myself if I'm being truthful, but would join and even pay a decent subscription if something was ever set up, but unfortunately I have absolutely no clue in doing anything like this.
Wonder how bad things have to really become before something, if snything will ever be done. I can't see it with the way things have been?
 
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Yes, it's a really grim situation, Julian. Groups do get set up, which suggests people do care, however unless one has friends in high places not much happens. The current political maxim seems to be "rather than ask what I can do for you. What can you do for me?".
 
'Does the environment agency or angler's trust actually do anything for us, seriously do they?'

The EA no. Not on a meaningful scale, but then it has always been set up to fail by every single Govt since its formation in 1995.

I don't believe the Angling Trust is perfect, they have some ideas and policies I disagree with, but ultimately they do a decent job on the scant resources they have. Fish Legal in particular have an admirable record in tackling polluters - they just need more money to it. And they will only get that if more anglers support them.

The new(ish) CEO Jamie Cook comes across well imo, and looks like a man able to get things done. I just wish more anglers would join, £29/year is nothing really. If just 50% of all anglers were members the AT would be the most influential NGO in the land.
 
Richard Parsons said:
Yes, it's a really grim situation, Julian. Groups do get set up, which suggests people do care, however unless one has friends in high places not much happens. The current political maxim seems to be "rather than ask what I can do for you. What can you do for me?".
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Joe Winstanley said:
'Does the environment agency or angler's trust actually do anything for us, seriously do they?'

The EA no. Not on a meaningful scale, but then it has always been set up to fail by every single Govt since its formation in 1995.

I don't believe the Angling Trust is perfect, they have some ideas and policies I disagree with, but ultimately they do a decent job on the scant resources they have. Fish Legal in particular have an admirable record in tackling polluters - they just need more money to it. And they will only get that if more anglers support them.

The new(ish) CEO Jamie Cook comes across well imo, and looks like a man able to get things done. I just wish more anglers would join, £29/year is nothing really. If just 50% of all anglers were members the AT would be the most influential NGO in the land.
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You know what... I'll visit their website and look into it! Ive got no problem in supporting people like fish legal if the monies are directed through the channels thats crying out to be addressed. I knos they need to fund wages, but detest people being paid hefty wages for doing sweet f a. Thanks for bringing them to my attention, I'll visit their site after work this evening.

Couldn't agree more about anglers paying more to have a properly represented body fighting hard for our rivers. I'd love to have the balls to boycott the fishing licence fee, as thats just giving money for absolute no return whatsoever in my eyes... A few bailiffs here and there the odd restocking program thats set to fail becsuse the environment that the fish are put into is 'f up' and polluted. Its crazy to know our money is being abused and not used in a wsy its needed!
 
I took the dog for a walk alongside the Lugg today, was dismayed to see it looking so awful. It has a grey tinge to it, is certainly not clear and gravel that is usually visible in the margins has a horrible green/grey sludge covering it. It looks like effluent although there aren't any treatment works on the river so I can only assume it is down to agricultural run off.
The wye although clear has similar covering on most gravel beds just above Hereford even in the faster water.
 
Paul Thompson said:
I took the dog for a walk alongside the Lugg today, was dismayed to see it looking so awful. It has a grey tinge to it, is certainly not clear and gravel that is usually visible in the margins has a horrible green/grey sludge covering it. It looks like effluent although there aren't any treatment works on the river so I can only assume it is down to agricultural run off.
The wye although clear has similar covering on most gravel beds just above Hereford even in the faster water.
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Paul, you will find there are a number of storm drains and sewage outfalls feeding into the Lugg. Possibly one of them is at fault. Have a look at the website 'Is my river fit to play in' it shows all the outfalls into the Lugg and its tributaries. Lots are permits from places other than Water companies. You may find a septic tank with a permit that has a problem. If you then look at the river above and below these outfalls you might be able to nail where the problem comes from. Also you might find the River has Riverfly monitors if it does then they can pinpoint the area causing the problem. Report the issue to the EA ,well worth a phone call. Ask for them to give you feedback and chase if they do not. In my experience the EA are much more likely to do something about a non water company pollution than anything from an illegal Sewage Treatment Works dump of Sewage.
 
Mark Swaby said:
Paul, you will find there are a number of storm drains and sewage outfalls feeding into the Lugg. Possibly one of them is at fault. Have a look at the website 'Is my river fit to play in' it shows all the outfalls into the Lugg and its tributaries. Lots are permits from places other than Water companies. You may find a septic tank with a permit that has a problem. If you then look at the river above and below these outfalls you might be able to nail where the problem comes from. Also you might find the River has Riverfly monitors if it does then they can pinpoint the area causing the problem. Report the issue to the EA ,well worth a phone call. Ask for them to give you feedback and chase if they do not. In my experience the EA are much more likely to do something about a non water company pollution than anything from an illegal Sewage Treatment Works dump of Sewage.
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Thanks Mark. Hadn't considered that and will have a look.
I do however think this is not a new issue with the Lugg. There have been investigations into it previously and I'm sure I recall some small scale prosecutions taking place.
One thing is certain...itvis not the river it was 15 years ago, with a healthy stock of fish of all species. Over the last few years I haven't seen a single barbel spawning in the usual places and visibility has become worse steadily over time.
 
Peanuts of a fine compared to the damage caused . Probably limited by the fact the Farmer and worker was not making a large income. To me it reads like a 'Green' Biogas company gives its waste to a Farmer to dispose of and they did it irresponsibly. Why not go after the 'Green' biogas company that is involved too. Surely they should check how their waste is disposed of ,they must have some Duty of Care. They must have inspected the Farmer and seen there was a possibility the waste would run off the farm land into the river if it rained heavily.
 
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Mark Swaby said:
Peanuts of a fine compared to the damage caused . Probably limited by the fact the Farmer and worker was not making a large income. To me it reads like a 'Green' Biogas company gives its waste to a Farmer to dispose of and they did it irresponsibly. Why not go after the 'Green' biogas company that is involved too. Surely they should check how their waste is disposed of ,they must have some Duty of Care. They must have inspected the Farmer and seen there was a possibility the waste would run off the farm land into the river if it rained heavily.
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It seems like the farm involved is also an agricultural contracting business and they are advertising slurry spreading services! So you can maybe forgive the AD digestate plant for assuming the farm would have taken due care. AD digestate from maize/ grass is very similar to slurry in consistency. It’s far from green btw, and heavily subsidised by feed-in tariffs.

It sounds as though very little care was taken in during spreading and in the maintenance of the pipework. Especially when using a rainwater culvert to get the pipe work under a road. These are all basic things that competent farmers are very diligent about. Not checking the weather before spreading is basic stuff, and in any case if it’s being spread at sensible rates you wouldn’t expect it to subsequently run-off in anything other than a monsoon.

The fine is paltry, that’s about 10% of the cost of the typical tractor used by a contracting firm. It should be north of £100k at least, and if it means they have to sell land to pay it then so be it. It’s not a deterrent otherwise.
 
Ben Marr said:
That farm gets a total of £64 grand of our money in subsidies, including £14000 for " Greening and environmental benefits"...
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So it’s a bit over 700 acres then based on typical payments? And excluding the contracting side of the business it will have an annual turnover in excess of £250k if they are growing combinables, more if they have a dairy unit or intensive beef.

And if they own the farm, it will have a typical market value of over £7m, excluding buildings.

It’s a complete joke isn’t it?
 
Joe Winstanley said:
The fine is paltry, that’s about 10% of the cost of the typical tractor used by a contracting firm. It should be north of £100k at least, and if it means they have to sell land to pay it then so be it. It’s not a deterrent otherwise.
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Exactly, cheaper to risk a fine than do it properly.
The EA/Government must know this, so they have to complicit in these crimes.
 
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