• You need to be a registered member of Barbel Fishing World to post on these forums. Some of the forums are hidden from non-members. Please refer to the instructions on the ‘Register’ page for details of how to join the new incarnation of BFW...

tentative bites:what's going on-help!

Howard Cooke

Senior Member
Having been away from fishing for 10 odd years it has been great to return and resume my focus on the Kennet. Have had a great 2012 with my first ever double followed by 9 more in the past couple of months-all in the dark on spicy meat. But recently my rig confidence has evaporated as its been a real struggle to catch (everything else being equal-location/temp/bait/darkness etc) as bites have changed from the usual confident pull to taps and knocks and half hearted pulls. Some I have hit (by holding the rod and feeling the bites) and they have been barbel. I have tried smaller hooks/baits/different baits/in-line running leads and longer hooklengths (up to 2.5ft)/just burying the hook rather than using a hair, but it has still been difficult. I have not tried a fixed rig as I am not yet confident setting it up safely. The real question is just how important is it to pin down the line behind the lead? I struggle with a backlead casting towards the opposite bank (I will need to practice) and dont want to use leadcore. I also worry about fish feeling the extra weight of anything on the line (rig putty etc). Is weighted rig tube the answer if it is vital for more tricky fish to pin the line down and where the main line can be passed through the rig tube? Advice and thoughts gratefully received.
 
Howard. Have you changed your hook size down? or your bait size up?

One of the commonest problems, especially with hair rigs is a change to a hook smaller than the bait so it does not have the point of the hook a bit proud of the bait. If a fish picks up the bait it should nearly always be pricked and bolt....

Also have you gone to a longer hair, Ideally IMO the hook bend should be just about touching the bait.

Graham
 
Graham-many thanks. I haven't given that sufficient thought. I do generally have a longish hair, mainly through fear of the fish feeling the hook and then instantly ejecting the bait/hook. But what you say makes sense. Most grateful, thanks again.
 
Having been away from fishing for 10 odd years it has been great to return and resume my focus on the Kennet. Have had a great 2012 with my first ever double followed by 9 more in the past couple of months-all in the dark on spicy meat. But recently my rig confidence has evaporated as its been a real struggle to catch (everything else being equal-location/temp/bait/darkness etc) as bites have changed from the usual confident pull to taps and knocks and half hearted pulls. Some I have hit (by holding the rod and feeling the bites) and they have been barbel. I have tried smaller hooks/baits/different baits/in-line running leads and longer hooklengths (up to 2.5ft)/just burying the hook rather than using a hair, but it has still been difficult. I have not tried a fixed rig as I am not yet confident setting it up safely. The real question is just how important is it to pin down the line behind the lead? I struggle with a backlead casting towards the opposite bank (I will need to practice) and dont want to use leadcore. I also worry about fish feeling the extra weight of anything on the line (rig putty etc). Is weighted rig tube the answer if it is vital for more tricky fish to pin the line down and where the main line can be passed through the rig tube? Advice and thoughts gratefully received.

Howard, if you prefer a running rig, keep it simple. Use a normal lead (not inline) 2 to 3oz, don't backlead or use rig-tube, keep as direct a line as you can from the lead to the rod tip and tighten up to the lead. If you use a hair-rig, it will work better if you use an avon top and position it at an angle to the bait.

This way, when the hook pr1cks the fish, the tension is created by the rod tip causing the fish to bolt and giving you the "3 foot twitch". Use a baitrunner or centre-pin (ratchet on) or you'll lose the rod!
If you're upstreaming, add a drop-off indicator for drop-back indication and use a heavier lead, at least 3oz. You should get a pull anyway, but just in case of weed build-up "jamming" the line.

A long-ish hooklink (3-6ft) will work instead of a backlead and stop the fish from spooking when they brush against the line. You can pin it down with some evenly spaced small shot or rig putty. Leave tentative bitees to develop, they could be liners where the fish are grubbing around, especially if you've put particles down as well as your hook-bait.
 
Thanks Simon-great advice and its always a relief when key to trying to solve a problem is the art of keeping things. Note to self-stop reading carp fishing magazines.
 
Howard. Just to add to Si's excellent advice. Don't try and tighten up too much to upstreaming rig. The weight of the line will add to the bolt effect and a normal bite will be a bounce of the tip and then a slackening line. Lift the rod and fish on.
 
Howard. Have you changed your hook size down? or your bait size up?

One of the commonest problems, especially with hair rigs is a change to a hook smaller than the bait so it does not have the point of the hook a bit proud of the bait. If a fish picks up the bait it should nearly always be pricked and bolt....

Also have you gone to a longer hair, Ideally IMO the hook bend should be just about touching the bait.

Graham

If you were to use a longer hair, and there are different opinions on this, then I guess that you can get away with a smaller hook?
 
Howard, if you get the chance get a copy of Len Arbery's excellent new book. He discusses in depth the 'small bite' phenomenon and goes on to explain that they often do not result in a 3 foot twitch. Its a very informative read.
 
Howard, if you get the chance get a copy of Len Arbery's excellent new book. He discusses in depth the 'small bite' phenomenon and goes on to explain that they often do not result in a 3 foot twitch. Its a very informative read.

Hi nathan were can u get a copy of this book from?
 
That's partly true Jim. But wouldn't he be back to what's happening now.?

Natham. Absolutely true. More especially on smaller high pressured waters. Having watched them on on the loddon they often will simply mouth a bait then back off without a sign on the tip. The hook close to the bait often negates rejection potential.

Graham
 
That's partly true Jim. But wouldn't he be back to what's happening now.?

Natham. Absolutely true. More especially on smaller high pressured waters. Having watched them on on the loddon they often will simply mouth a bait then back off without a sign on the tip. The hook close to the bait often negates rejection potential.

Graham

Hi Graham, when you can actually see what is happening on the river bed then a lot of the various theories become much clearer. I've not had the good fortune in witnessing barbel taking a bait owing to the nature of the rivers that I fish. In the light of your posts, I'll certainly try your suggestions. It seems to be the fashion at the moment to go with smaller baits and smaller hooks. I may well have the ratio of hook size to bait wrong. I certainly seem to have caught more fish in years gone by and it might very well be down to something as straighforward as this. The posts on this topic have been great and all about fishing for barbel.
 
I fished the W/Avon last Saturday night , The rod tip I can best descibe started to bounce up and down , Not the usual 3ft twitch and in the words of Trefor West I wacked it . The end result a 11lb 12oz Barbel on the bank . Can any one explain the reason for the bounce instead of the usual 3ft twitch ???????? Bait was a small hair rigged pellet
 
Hi Jim

You might find this interesting, from a few years back.


I saw her again today

Graham

I enjoyed that, beautifully written. But, keep going, Graham, she must be 20lb by now. A very simple question, I wonder why the barbel were continually sucking in and spitting the bait out - I suspect it was because they couldn't physically swallow the bait because the line was tethered to the lead, bit like us having a hair in our throats; my first reaction would be to try and spit it out. Good job the hairs we experience aren't attached to hooks!

"A treble hook is the answer", said Mr Crabtree to Peter. "After all, if it's ok for for carp, then it must be ok for barbel". Peter nodded. Dad had some great ideas. After a while, Peter came up with a revolutionary idea of his own. It would take a bit of engineering, but Tom, the baitcatcher, had a small engineering workshop! In the middle of the bait would be a sphere with sprung loaded hooks folded into it. The slightest pull on the bait would trigger the barbs to fly out and lock in position. Unfortunately, Tom died before Peter's idea could be put into production. Peter lost interest when he found other pursuits, much to the chagrin of his father. Many years later, his grandaughter, who is a distant relative of mine, found his invention, together with detailed drawings, in one of Peter's diaries. I still have these drawings and am in the process of disscusing the possibility of putting these into production with a major tackle firm. By comparison to the "Spherook", the name coined by the tackle firm, the hair-rig will be a crude arrangement of the past.
 
Last edited:
hi joe, just reading ure post, interesting, had bites like that, ending in small boot laces pumping down, lol, must admit , had the odd barbel on that type of bite,
 
Having been away from fishing for 10 odd years it has been great to return and resume my focus on the Kennet. Have had a great 2012 with my first ever double followed by 9 more in the past couple of months-all in the dark on spicy meat. But recently my rig confidence has evaporated as its been a real struggle to catch (everything else being equal-location/temp/bait/darkness etc) as bites have changed from the usual confident pull to taps and knocks and half hearted pulls. Some I have hit (by holding the rod and feeling the bites) and they have been barbel. I have tried smaller hooks/baits/different baits/in-line running leads and longer hooklengths (up to 2.5ft)/just burying the hook rather than using a hair, but it has still been difficult. I have not tried a fixed rig as I am not yet confident setting it up safely. The real question is just how important is it to pin down the line behind the lead? I struggle with a backlead casting towards the opposite bank (I will need to practice) and dont want to use leadcore. I also worry about fish feeling the extra weight of anything on the line (rig putty etc). Is weighted rig tube the answer if it is vital for more tricky fish to pin the line down and where the main line can be passed through the rig tube? Advice and thoughts gratefully received.

Howard,
I'd take a bet that you've got cute, and spooky Barbel in front of you who've been round the block a few times, the worst thing you can do is start messing with your rigs that have been catching for you, unless you are pretty sure your previous captures were lucky, and there is something such as along the lines Graham has suggested that is fundamentaly wrong.

Older Barbel -( not necessarily big ones - some are males which don't grow to prodigous weights, you could have 20 year old 8 or 9 pounders in front of you ) - are spooky all of the time, they'll test your bait, pull it, tug it, mouth it, waft it with their tails, i'm sure all of it to see if it takes off !
Whatever you do don't try and hit twitchers, whats the point of using a hair rig - ( which is what i assume you're using most of the time ) - and trying to hit twitchers - the thing you have to do is get the Barbel to take the hook fully in it's mouth, to do that you have to gain it's confidence, once you've achieved that 90% of the time unless it's very lucky it's game over, and i promise you give it a couple of seconds and that twitch twitch, maybe as it's trying to shake the hook out will turn into that 3 foot twitch, whilst you are getting twitches you can't be sure whats going on whether it has the hook in it's mouth or playing with it, if you try hitting it, and miss it's over for the evening with that fish.
I use a small amount of rig putty about an inch from the hook, if the Barbel lifts it's head even an inch the weight of the putty will pull the hook down, the point will catch the inside of its lip and jab it, if it's really really cute, it might try and shake it, i believe this is the rapid twitches you get sometimes the instant before a wrap round, this will only jab it more, and i'm pretty sure will be a complete fluke if it does manage to shake it out.
if you are making your own baits make them unusual shapes, very different from every one else's, if you can visit the river regularly or when you fish bait a swim with these in small amounts, at least 2 or three times, whilst fishing another, let them get used to them and confident they are safe, then fish with them over no more bait than you usually bait with, even less is good.
If you start messing with rigs, and bait and such like, you'll end up so far up your own rear end you wont be able to see where you start and where you end LOL !
If your bait caught for you before it will again, and so will your rig, the difference is you are probably encountering a few fish a bit wiser than the previous ones, or possibly seeing the others getting caught, have heightened their caution.
They will suss a fixed rig out double quick if they are mouthing the bait, so you are right to leave them out.
Reduce resistance as much as possible by fishing with your lines slack and back leaded if safe, and possible, attach the back lead after you cast, your cast will be far easier and more accurate.
If you are fishing the far bank, cast then keep your line tight as you pay it out, and manouver your rod until you can attach the lead, whilst all the time keeping your line tight, you can then swing out your line with back lead attached and lower it into the water, then raise the rod and reel in line if needed, walking forwards if need be until you are happy with the position of your back lead, i then even pay out a few feet of slack as well.
So ...
Take on board Grahams advice with hairs,hook, and bait size, attach some rig putty, make your bait unusual in shape, - and do keep your flavour levels low.
Keep resistance as low as is possible to make it.
When you get the twitches let them play with it for as long as they like, sooner or later their greed will get the better of them.

Hope that helps a bit Howard, good luck it's going to be a few months before you can try it out, but you'll have the advantage of Barbel that haven't been fished for for 3 months, it wont take them long to remember though :D

All the best
Ian.
 
Last edited:
personally i dont think longer hook lengths will make much difference,
what may however is a shorter h/length and a back lead stopped about 4ft from the swivel and a further flying b/lead above this, this will enable you to use a lot slacker line thus having the same effect as a long h/link, if the mainline is fairly pinned down then it should be able to be quite slack, thus little resistance until the fish hits the 4ft backstop, try it you may be surprised:)
 
Back
Top