• You need to be a registered member of Barbel Fishing World to post on these forums. Some of the forums are hidden from non-members. Please refer to the instructions on the ‘Register’ page for details of how to join the new incarnation of BFW...

SAD REALISATION

Roger Cramer

Roger Cramer

Senior Member & Supporter
I don't know if anyone else has given this issue some thought, but as I only now pursue my favourite species on just the one watercourse namely The Trent (Middle and Tidal) I became curious about how other rivers had been performing.

As I looked at River Reports this morning, I only just realised that I hadn't had a look at one of the rivers that I had first fished (and totally fell in love with) when moving to my current abode back in 2004 i.e. The (Derbys) Derwent. It was then that I noticed it wasn't featured currently, and worse still, it didn't really appear much at all until I went back on archived reports where it wasn't really reported significantly until back in 2011-2012!!😧 Bear in mind that 14/15 years ago I would be regularly visiting The Soar, Dove, Warks Avon, Severn, Teme, Gt Ouse etc. as well (well, you get the picture!)

I then checked on another significant fact, i.e. that Reports for this season occupy just the 2 pages, whereas going ,say, 9/10 years ago or so, there was a need for up to 4/5 pages!!!

I accept that my advancing years means that longer, one-day car journeys are less attractive now, but to me, sadly, this demonstrates how pressured and somewhat barbel-barren our UK waterways are/have been becoming and why I now have less options to be able continue my favourite pasttime😥
 
Is it also possible, do you think, that less people are fishing these days after a 'heyday' 10 to 20 years ago?
I only recently returned to barbel fishing and this forum after a ten yearish absence.
 
I think there has been a general decline in the use of forums. The more youthful anglers tend to use social media, especially Facebook, whereas many of us river anglers are now more ‘mature’ and a signifivcant number don’t bother with Internet forums. Being Southampton based, I fish the HA and the Dorset Stour and activity on both these river reports is down significantly on days of yore. The Stour has been particularly slow with no activity since mid August yet I know that it is getting fished, as the Ringwood club forum has regular reports on the club stretches. Are anglers being more secretive or is it that there are less barbel anglers than there were?


Dave
 
I am quite sure that were there more barbel around, the river reports on these boards would be busier than they are.
The Social Board is even quieter, but I guess with the rule that you ought not to discuss matters which you wouldn't in the pub, and the pubs being closed...
 
A good active forum is an absolute asset, and I like this one and the fact you have to spend a few pennies to gain access. Will deter a lot of the dross if I'm allowed to say that! The problem with Facebook groups is often that anyone can join, there's no structure to the debates, and most threads descend into a bun fight. Not my idea of enjoyment, although I do enjoy Facebook 'fishing' from time to time 😅

On the fishing front, the Yorkshire Rivers have fished very well this season, but to continually post about successes in the wrong places only serves to knacker your own fishing up as I've maybe learned a lesson about this year. I think there's a lot more people 'looking in' these days rather than contributing (certainly a negative trait of Facebook pages), but I refer back to my comment about knackering your own fishing up if you post. I try to post helpful posts and general details of catches as if a few do it, it motivates me personally to keep going out and trying.

In my opinion, I also think there are now more anglers across all disciplines than there's ever been. Local clubs having to have printed record numbers of club books in some of my local clubs!
 
I don’t have a social media thing Facebook instagram or Twitter, but for my sons all in there late 20s-early 30s
Its a way of life. one son doesn’t fish but the other two do, if they want to find out anything regarding how a venue is fishing baits used etc it’s Facebook there on for the latest update.
social media although a fantastic resource it can cause added pressure on a venue
It looks like most of the reports are on social media these day
I used to like reading the reports and round ups in the anglers mail, or I’d walk the banks and ask fellow anglers
With regards to the river reports on this forum I’ll try and update for the rivers I fish mainly the Hampshire Avon and the stour 👍
 
I would love to report some of my fish but the areas of River Trent that I have been fishing have a publicity ban. I can't even report and leave out the venue.

I've just started going back to where I fished last season so hopefully I'll put something in the river reports. Still won't say exactly where as, like for Rob, I've had my fishing ruined by telling the wrong people in the past.

I don't go on Facebook and absolutely love this forum! 🙂
 
I certainly agree with the "social media" comments. I have only just (grudgingly!) accepted (this season) the notion if I didn't set up a Facebook account, then I would really miss out on two reasonable sources of more currently, 'in-depth' info. i.e. the Ashfield Angling bailiff reports (which have virtually become all but out of date or non-existent on their regular web-site, and that of the Sutton-on-Trent fishery.

Aside from this, I totally abhor and refuse to consider any other, utterly pointless on-line, media outlets (for the sake of my remaining sanity, if nothing else!!)
 
Roger Cramer said:
I certainly agree with the "social media" comments. I have only just (grudgingly!) accepted (this season) the notion if I didn't set up a Facebook account, then I would really miss out on two reasonable sources of more currently, 'in-depth' info. i.e. the Ashfield Angling bailiff reports (which have virtually become all but out of date or non-existent on their regular web-site, and that of the Sutton-on-Trent fishery.

Aside from this, I totally abhor and refuse to consider any other, utterly pointless on-line, media outlets (for the sake of my remaining sanity, if nothing else!!)
Click to expand...
I agree. I've been 'forced' to set up a FB account this season, as for some clubs, their news is expected to be disseminated through the social media platform. It is quite handy though and useful for seeing what is going on. I try and keep any comments to an absolute minimum. Two in total up to now. I can see the FB platform being quite 'frustrating' for some of the more secretive anglers though.
 
If we are all going to be 100% honest the acceptance that fishing rivers in general is in decline has to be agreed. It has to be with abstraction, chemical pesticides and more important fishing pressure. Many will not accept that many places on rivers like the Trent, the fish are being caught over and over again. I fished one two mile beat of the middle Trent for five years, and caught the same double figure fish several times, albeit at slightly differing weights. One eleven pound fish every year, the pressure on barbel now is horrendous. Its why I've switched species, yes there maybe one big fish I did not catch, but its ok, I simply don't want recaptures to add to my tally of barbel. I'm pessimistic about the future and can see a barbel record coming from a still-water in my lifetime, what hope for that water after then?

Preservation can partly preserve the inevitable, like banning night fishing on the very popular places. but I do hate restrictions in truth. Maybe a rise in the fishing licence with all the money going to the rivers. Habit renewal, fish stocking, cormorant control, farmers re-educated in chemical distribution being paid to keep the river banks feee from pesticides. It's all about money, we are happy to buy a new rod for £200 but bulk at paying another £50 a year for river preservation? It's a good opening by Roger Cramer and I hope someone takes the thread further with their views. All I've said is based on 60 years of mostly river fishing, experience and getting older in general, but all are just my own thoughts. Fishing was better back in my day I really do believe that. www.rivertrentangler.com Please keep well and safe all.
 
My response......Otters.
I predicted this scenario 10 years ago and re-emphasised it 5 years ago, I will also state now, hand on heart, that there are less big barbel today (as I type) than there were yesterday, our big barbel, especially the lesser in number breeding females are being killed 24/7 on a national scale, which results in a collapse of a rivers barbel population.
Ask the EA or Angling Trust why barbel numbers are falling and they will tell you the rivers are dirty and polluted, ask the EA why otters numbers are increasing and the will say its because they have worked hard and got the rivers cleaned up so much...there isnt one barbel river in the UK that isnt in decline, this includes the Trent and the Wye...
 
D
Lawrence Breakspear said:
My response......Otters.
I predicted this scenario 10 years ago and re-emphasised it 5 years ago, I will also state now, hand on heart, that there are less big barbel today (as I type) than there were yesterday, our big barbel, especially the lesser in number breeding females are being killed 24/7 on a national scale, which results in a collapse of a rivers barbel population.
Ask the EA or Angling Trust why barbel numbers are falling and they will tell you the rivers are dirty and polluted, ask the EA why otters numbers are increasing and the will say its because they have worked hard and got the rivers cleaned up so much...there isnt one barbel river in the UK that isnt in decline, this includes the Trent and the Wye...
Click to expand...
The EA won't tell you it's because the rivers are dirty!
Do they not eat anything else then? Other species that are doing well?
 
So why are barbel numbers are falling Damian or at worse barbel numbers have collapsed on many rivers?

The EA have conducted their own studies that confirms pollution, i.e. heavy metal, chemical, un treated effluent and more alarmingly the feminisation of barbel via oestrogen in sewage are a contribution to the demise and collapse of barbel populations on many rivers, studies on the river Severn at Bridgnorth, show that barbe (mainly)l, chub and brown trout are the species most affected and do show signs of feminisation, I think this evidence confirms our rivers are "dirty", as I stated, and why does the EA, NE, AT and the various river trusts agree, so why don't you?

But like you, they all state (publically) the otters are not a problem and the reason for their decline is because of water quality and loss of habitat.

But, the teams responsible for the otters expansion will state its because of how they have cleaned the rivers up and bettered the riverine/otters environment.

It makes me laugh how its ok to say that cormorants are a problem, signal crays are a problem, mink are a problem, rats are a problem, ruddy ducks and gooseanders are a problem, but sssshhhhhh...we can't mention the O word.

However, sarcasm aside, I still believe and I stand by my flag, that the illegal, uncontrolled, undocumented, reintroduction of otters without any impact study being created, has been the main reason for the decline and collapse of barbel populations on a national scale on barbel colonised rivers, it doesn't matter if the barbel are indigenous or stocked, they are all in a state of decline or collapse, otters are an ferocious apex predator, whose presence on any river will be ultimately detrimental, as have been proven, be it a barbel, a carp, a pike big chub or ground nesting birds or the protected endangered Vole, they all decline once otters move in

I expect to be metaphorically smashed to pieces because of my views, but I stand by them...
 
Lawrence Breakspear said:
So why are barbel numbers are falling Damian or at worse barbel numbers have collapsed on many rivers?

The EA have conducted their own studies that confirms pollution, i.e. heavy metal, chemical, un treated effluent and more alarmingly the feminisation of barbel via oestrogen in sewage are a contribution to the demise and collapse of barbel populations on many rivers, studies on the river Severn at Bridgnorth, show that barbe (mainly)l, chub and brown trout are the species most affected and do show signs of feminisation, I think this evidence confirms our rivers are "dirty", as I stated, and why does the EA, NE, AT and the various river trusts agree, so why don't you?

But like you, they all state (publically) the otters are not a problem and the reason for their decline is because of water quality and loss of habitat.

But, the teams responsible for the otters expansion will state its because of how they have cleaned the rivers up and bettered the riverine/otters environment.

It makes me laugh how its ok to say that cormorants are a problem, signal crays are a problem, mink are a problem, rats are a problem, ruddy ducks and gooseanders are a problem, but sssshhhhhh...we can't mention the O word.

However, sarcasm aside, I still believe and I stand by my flag, that the illegal, uncontrolled, undocumented, reintroduction of otters without any impact study being created, has been the main reason for the decline and collapse of barbel populations on a national scale on barbel colonised rivers, it doesn't matter if the barbel are indigenous or stocked, they are all in a state of decline or collapse, otters are an ferocious apex predator, whose presence on any river will be ultimately detrimental, as have been proven, be it a barbel, a carp, a pike big chub or ground nesting birds or the protected endangered Vole, they all decline once otters move in

I expect to be metaphorically smashed to pieces because of my views, but I stand by them...
Click to expand...

I don’t think you’ll be smashed for it Lawerence but there’s a lot of truth to what your saying. Where it becomes subjective is the conclusion. Looking at the topic and we’ve all been down this road before there is a multitude of factors at play in the declining stocks of fish, I don’t believe (and I doubt you do either) that there is one single smoking gun. A healthy ecosystem should be able to support a healthy population of any native fauna, trouble is irrespective of what is said we don’t have the key part, healthy rivers. As we all know there’s far more to water quality that clarity...
If I had to pick a side of a hypothetical argument of for or against Otters, I’d say neither I’m pro River. As Anglers we really need to stop getting heated about this illusive singular cause of the situation and realise it’s a holistic problem that has to be addressed methodically rather than in a pot shot way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top