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Predation

Mark Gaskell

Mark Gaskell

Senior Member
What ? or is anything being done to curb the decline of our sport! ,ive not heard of anything being done to control the commorants and gooseanders,the decline on natural waters (not commercials) is dramatic in the area I fish,and the future looks bleak,do we need to take this into our own hands or will something be done?
 
I think its a case of people are burying their heads in the sand. I tried to join the predator action group but you can't and since John Wilson moved to Thailand they've gone quiet. I've joined the vbs (volunteer bailif scheme) that was in a angling trust magazine they sent me, which is basically having to walk rivers, lakes, canals and if there a anything dodgy report it to the ea and then once a week send a report to my ea officer. I have tried asking about predation highlighting a lake that was on the cemex forum which lost most of its stock of carp including a 40lb home grown common but didn't really get any answers. Unfortunately the sport is in a slippery slope and I can't see any way back for it. Between the otters, cormorants and signal crayfish, the fish are getting hunted from eggs right up to specimen fish.
 
The biggest issue is DEFRA which includes Natural England and the Environment Agency.

One of the clubs that I’m a member of has contacted the EA regarding dwindling stocks (Chub, Dace, Roach and Gudgeon) on a river that I fish. Initially they blamed Mink, which we challenged, we then asked if they would be willing to perform an electro fish survey? This request is currently being considered and they’ve since asked if Barbel are present, which they are not in any great number (suggesting that Barbel are eating all the fish eggs and preventing fry recruitment?)!

I personally find it infuriating, as having fished said length of river for 25 years, I’ve seen a gradual decline in fish stock stocks due to an increased level of predation by both Cormorants and Goosanders, and you don’t need to be an aquatic scientist to realise this! In addition bank erosion due to Himalayan Balsam is now getting to a stage that some of the gravel runs which are used for spawning are getting covered in silt and sand.

If I’m lucky the E.A will do the fish survey, find the length to be under stocked and they’ll chuck in a few hundred small Dace, Roach and Chub (Cormorant food), which will achieve nothing.

In summary DEFRA has failed our rivers miserably over the last 25 years as they’ve failed to deal with:

- Mink
- Signal Crayfish
- Himalayan Balsam and Giant Hogweed
- Avian predation from Goosanders and Cormorants.
- Pollution
- Storm drains
- Agricultural run off

The future is bleak and the firm stance that the RSPB is taking on Goosanders and Cormorants is not helping where any lobbying is concerned to relax shooting laws.
 
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Clubs can do something about some of those problems though Neil.

Clubs I know, get out and work on eradicating Himalayan Balsam and have done so for the last couple or three years.

Mink, if you have them you can trap them and there's bound to be someone local who can do this for you.

You mentioned the E.A restocking with juvenile fish and yes, they would certainly be a target for the black plague but, clubs can help avoid this by building refuge's for small fish, this also helps with bank erosion.

I totally agree that the E.A have to help do something about the other issues you mention. However, if anglers joined the Angling Trust, they would have more power to be able to force some of these issue's to try to counteract the RSPB. Lets not forget, RSPB have over a million paying members, what does angling have?
 
The problem with Himalayan Balsam pulling, is that if no one does it upstream of you/on the opposite bank, then you are fighting a losing battle and bank erosion upstream still smothers the gravel runs (I am aware that organisations such as the Welsh Dee trust have had some success but it takes a coordinated effort). Also last year I contacted the Countryside Council for Wales and the Welsh E.A re Giant Hogweed on the Upper Severn, as if it’s not dealt with soon, the whole river will be effected. Unfortunately I didn’t even get a reply from either body; however fortunately the Severn Rivers Trust is showing some interest in what is a major threat the river.

All recent governments claim to support bio diversity and green issues; however when it comes to walking the talk, there is no money or interest unless you are classed as a SSSI.

Totally agree re the Angling Trust and more anglers should join, rather than giving lame excuses!
 
Neil, if you want to know about SSSI,speak to ray walton because it means very little.
 
Neil Blood said:
we then asked if they would be willing to perform an electro fish survey? This request is currently being considered... If I’m lucky the E.A will do the fish survey, find the length to be under stocked and they’ll chuck in a few hundred small Dace, Roach and Chub (Cormorant food), which will achieve nothing..
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Good luck with the fish survey!

I suspect that if they agree to survey fish numbers, they will need to perform the surveys over an extended period of time in order to see if there's any decline taking place in the fish populations.

As the decline had already taken place before the surveys were started, at the end of the survey period they will say that there is no noticeable trend and therefore no action needs to be taken. Textbook "after the horse has bolted"...

Happy New Year, Tim
 
Any regular river angler will know that our fish populations have been declining for several years now. My river, the Severn at Shrewsbury, has seen massive avian predation and over the last couple of years I've collected photo evidence of ever increasing otter damage. There are almost certainly other issues relating to water quality and fry survival rates. Like many other like minded (and conservation-minded) anglers, I've posted on this and other sites, written to national and local newspapers, spoken to E.A. officials etc and as far as I am concerned, I feel as though I may as well be hitting my head against a brick wall, because it seems that nothing is being done to protect our fish. It has been said that 'anglers are the eyes and ears' of what happens on our rivers and lakes, and that's very true, so why does the E.A. treat us so dismissively. The general public are able to access many of the nation's waterways, they can swim, canoe etc. and it doesn't cost them a bean - but we anglers are expected to pay for a license, even if fishing on a lake that you've constructed on your own land. As licensees surely we have a right to complain if all is not well! We've all seen natural history programmes on TV which highlight ecological disasters in other parts of the world - well in my humble opinion we are witnessing an ecological disaster on our natural waterways but for some reason it's not receiving the publicity that it should be getting. The bottom line is that it's not in the interest of government bodies like the E.A. and DEFRA to make these issues public because it would also indicate that they are not doing their jobs properly. Remember, we live in an age when PR, spin, league tables and quotas are the name of the game - good service and common sense went out of fashion when I was a kid!

Sorry about the rant, but this is a subject that I and many other senior (over sixty) anglers are passionate about. It's even more annoying when we seem to become invisible when we shout up for what we believe in. John Wilson, a long-time angling champion has now left the country - we are in dire need of more high-profile supporters because if things carry on as they are, we won't be leaving much of a legacy for future generations of anglers.
 
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The licence has nothing to do with angling now, it's just another tax.
 
kill em all

we would be better sending our licence money to a local gun club with a few wanted pictures with dead not alive on em!:eek:
 
I see no way out of this. Even if we voice our feelings regarding predation (particularly the otter situation) on this or other forums too loudly, we are liable to be shot down in flames for our 'non PC views' or whatever. Just imagine then how such views are received by the non angling fraternity :eek:

I admit I don't know the answer, because the obvious one is never going to happen...which leaves us in a bit of a quandary, does it not? We could try sea fishing, but then cormorants are on our rivers because of lack of fish in our coastal waters...or so I am told. (To be honest, that's a bit of a red herring, if you will excuse the pun :D) Fly fishing would possibly be an option...but I see no reason why trout waters will not eventually be affected in just the same way.

Besides, I rather like fishing the way I do....I am a terribly selfish old fool like that. In fact, I would go as far as to say that I find the views often expressed in support of these 'natural predators' :rolleyes:, such as 'If you don't like it, you will have to lump it', or 'They have more right to be here than you do' et al....both tiresome and boring. But then that's just me, and we are all entitled to our own opinion. However, I do find it rather amusing how opinions can suddenly change when the person concerned finds to their horror that it is now their rivers turn to be the one being ravaged :D

Golf any one?

Cheers, Dave.
 
I think the damage that has/is being done will eventually even itself out, problem is for me that I don't think I will be around in 50 years time.
 
David Gauntlett said:
I see no way out of this. Even if we voice our feelings regarding predation (particularly the otter situation) on this or other forums too loudly, we are liable to be shot down in flames for our 'non PC views' or whatever. Just imagine then how such views are received by the non angling fraternity :eek:

I admit I don't know the answer, because the obvious one is never going to happen...which leaves us in a bit of a quandary, does it not? We could try sea fishing, but then cormorants are on our rivers because of lack of fish in our coastal waters...or so I am told. (To be honest, that's a bit of a red herring, if you will excuse the pun :D) Fly fishing would possibly be an option...but I see no reason why trout waters will not eventually be affected in just the same way.

Besides, I rather like fishing the way I do....I am a terribly selfish old fool like that. In fact, I would go as far as to say that I find the views often expressed in support of these 'natural predators' :rolleyes:, such as 'If you don't like it, you will have to lump it', or 'They have more right to be here than you do' et al....both tiresome and boring. But then that's just me, and we are all entitled to our own opinion. However, I do find it rather amusing how opinions can suddenly change when the person concerned finds to their horror that it is now their rivers turn to be the one being ravaged :D

Golf any one?

Cheers, Dave.
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Quite agree Dave, I find the implication that anglers are trespassing on the ground of otters etc, and we are the invaders, very irritating to say the least :mad:
 
There are a few more pressing matters that are far more worrying to the state of angling than 'predators', I don't think I really need to point that out. Deal with those first then worry about a few furred and feathered creatures. Its just hot air on the internet discussing otters.
 
Roman Vann said:
There are a few more pressing matters that are far more worrying to the state of angling than 'predators', I don't think I really need to point that out. Deal with those first then worry about a few furred and feathered creatures. Its just hot air on the internet discussing otters.
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That's your opinion mate, not everyone shares it
 
I wholly appreciate that, it was pointed out that agricultural run-off is an issue. That in itself has a broader ranging impact on our stocks than an otter, it affects all life stages of fish to a lesser or greater extent, in all parts of the country. The reward gained through changing legislation regarding dumping things in our rivers would be far greater, than a 'cull' of predators. This is of course just my opinion. However I would really recommend doing some research around the topic, just so you know I'm not lying to you ;)
 
Roman Vann said:
I wholly appreciate that, it was pointed out that agricultural run-off is an issue. That in itself has a broader ranging impact on our stocks than an otter, it affects all life stages of fish to a lesser or greater extent, in all parts of the country. The reward gained through changing legislation regarding dumping things in our rivers would be far greater, than a 'cull' of predators. This is of course just my opinion. However I would really recommend doing some research around the topic, just so you know I'm not lying to you ;)
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I didn't say you were lying and I am well aware of the points you raise. My point was your dismissal of the otter issue being merely hot air on the internet and that not everyone thinks that is the case.
 
Put your name to a petition then, Im sure if you use the search tool you can find other threads regarding otters and what people think of them on here already. Do you honestly think we are achieving anything by rehashing the topic here?
 
Roman Vann said:
Put your name to a petition then, Im sure if you use the search tool you can find other threads regarding otters and what people think of them on here already. Do you honestly think we are achieving anything by rehashing the topic here?
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Doesn't matter whether I am achieving anything or not does it? It is a forum where people put their opinions, just like you have done..
This forum is full of people knocking others for stating an opinion when they don't seem to realise that, by knocking those people, they are simply stating their own views too :)
 
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