• You need to be a registered member of Barbel Fishing World to post on these forums. Some of the forums are hidden from non-members. Please refer to the instructions on the ‘Register’ page for details of how to join the new incarnation of BFW...

Predation

The goosander issue confuses me somewhat as these are native birds if I'm not mistaken, what with cormorant numbers increasing massively inland how is that goosanders have as well? You'd think they would be in direct competition.
 
I know where you're coming from Mike, but I just don't see that happening. The population of Britain is going to continue increasing as more immigrants pour in, which is going to lead to greater water abstraction from our rivers. With our water supply now being in the hands of foreign companies with shareholders, the chances of more reservoirs being built to alleviate this is virtually nil. Reduced flows lead to the silting up of spawning beds, and thus poor juvenile recruitment. Reduced flows also make predation much easier as the fish in summer are just picked off in the pools. Signal crayfish are also virtually impossible to eradicate. In short I think river fishing on the smaller rivers is completely stuffed and the only way they can survive is if riparian owners or clubs control predators themselves illegally. All the other bodies (EA, Natural England, the RSPB etc) seem oblivious to the ecological disaster in our rivers that we are on the brink of. In ten years time I can see myself moving to France, a country where common sense seems to prevail more than it does in this increasingly ridiculous society we live in. Very sad.

Nick C
 
how long

rivers will be barren of fish and all natural waters at this rate ,the only waters left will be the commercials where the owners look after there stock,with the aid of good eyesight and a up and over:D
 
All this doom and gloom is going a bit far now, lets not forget it wasn't that long ago most rivers were devoid of life, the Thames and Trent condemned as dead. It can't be all that bad, if the predators have supposedly wiped so many fish out what the hell are they still feeding on?
 
Nick Coulthurst said:
I know where you're coming from Mike, but I just don't see that happening. The population of Britain is going to continue increasing as more immigrants pour in, which is going to lead to greater water abstraction from our rivers. With our water supply now being in the hands of foreign companies with shareholders, the chances of more reservoirs being built to alleviate this is virtually nil. Reduced flows lead to the silting up of spawning beds, and thus poor juvenile recruitment. Reduced flows also make predation much easier as the fish in summer are just picked off in the pools. Signal crayfish are also virtually impossible to eradicate. In short I think river fishing on the smaller rivers is completely stuffed and the only way they can survive is if riparian owners or clubs control predators themselves illegally. All the other bodies (EA, Natural England, the RSPB etc) seem oblivious to the ecological disaster in our rivers that we are on the brink of. In ten years time I can see myself moving to France, a country where common sense seems to prevail more than it does in this increasingly ridiculous society we live in. Very sad.

Nick C
Click to expand...
All this water it could of filled up 10 new reservoirs:eek:
 
Hugh Miles said'

"'There's a toxic concoction of threats out there.......the reality in the world of wildlife is alarming. We live at a time of unprecedented declines in many species of freshwater wildlife and unless we all work together to reverse the declines, it aint going to get better any time soon. The list makes depressing reading.'"

Of course Hugh is right but more importantly Hugh sees the bigger picture and believe me, the constant threat to the rivers environment is VERY big.

Otter predation is only a small part but a part that effects specialist angling admittedly. Indeed, if one was to concentrate on the whole of the predation issue it would only make up a small proportion of the threats posed to our rivers and streams.

There is no doubt that a lot of our rivers have got a lot cleaner. Someone mentioned the river Trent as a prime example of a river making a comeback from the edge of a pollution abyss which is perfectly true. It is also perfectly true that this particular river is not suffering in terms of fish populations and fish recruitment. But many other rivers are not so fortunate and some small rivers and streams have disappeared altogether.

If you list all the threats to our rivers the list is very long and seriously real. The EA and the NRA before them have actually done a remarkable job in helping to clean up our rivers and many water companies have also, contrary to certain popular held belief, invested huge sums of money in river restoration and sewerage improvements. Yes there have been some major polluters from the water industry itself but even here these companies have made significant investment.

The threats to rivers come from a wide and diverse range of culprits, far too many for the EA to deal with effectively. And when you consider that this present government is going to cut the EA budget further, something that successive governments have been doing since the Thatcher days, it should come as no surprise that the EA is in between a rock and a hard place when it comes to using their ever shrinking budget. Politicians constantly talk up the need for environmental protection but consistently do very little so one can't expect a lot in the way of environmental innovative protection from them.

To make matters even worse, this country is now experiencing some alarming changing weather patterns as is now daily depicted in national news reports. Water water everywhere flooding towns and villages with whole swaths of rural England under water with rivers raging through them. Have you noticed that not one single news report mentions what is happening to the rivers themselves in terms of their fish, animal, bird, invertebrate and plant life as everything gets washed away? In times of national emergency people and property come first which is generally the way it is but what about when the water subsides and the rivers return within their banks again? Who among the new reporters will ask, "What's happened to our river flora and fauna during the floods?"

And therein lies the problem. People with a real vested interest in rivers genuinely care about them, people with no vested interest, and that's the majority of the UK population, simply don't. Yes they are concerned if the floods stop their trains running or block the roads to work or flood their propertyt but by and large the majority don't care about whats actually going off beneath the rivers surface flooded or not. Politicians react to the majority opinion because its the majority that will get them re elected so if the majority don't care they won't either. In any case, what the majority want soon gets forgotten by all governments once either elected or re elected.

The AT hasn't a hope in hell of addressing the problems facing our rivers. Nor does it have the money, expertise, man power or mandate to be everything and all for our rivers. The job is just too big. The AT does however realise the importance of the Rivers Trusts.

I support my local angling trusts and I would urge all anglers who fish for rivers to do the same. The river trusts are a rapidly growing set of river based organisations working for rivers under the umbrella of the Association Of Rivers Trusts. My website gives full information on the rivers trusts. If you go to their main body the Association Of Rivers Trusts look at their funding and how it is obtained. Its impressive as is the whole organisation. They are very professional and do some amazing work for rivers along with all their localised trusts.

I believe that the Rivers Trusts will eventually form the political backbone representing our rivers whilst continuing to be the greatest conservation organisation for rivers that there has ever been in the UK. You can either make a support donation of anything you like or be a full member for 50 pounds a year.

Regards,

Lee.
 
Last edited:
Barry Who
 
Andrew Boyne said:
Well said Lee. May I direct the OP to this place - Ribble Rivers Trust
Click to expand...

This website is very interesting and heartening . Clearly the RRT is not a single interest group and as a result has a much more rounded view on all the challenges that face our rivers . This , in my view is the way ahead in terms of raising awareness and educating a wider audience to the challenges that face our waterways and their associated Flora and Fauna, including the fish . Single interest groups tend to polarise viewpoints and as a result struggle to gain widespread support with regard to their concerns . Campaigns to cull / kill will never gain widespread public or political support and therefore are doomed to failure . Looking at the longer view and working collabaritively with ALL concerned parties is the only way ahead . As I said in an earlier post , if Jo Public was made aware that fish stocks were declining and as a result many animals and birds would suffer / die then more interest may well be garnered
 
I think I've said this before, not that I'm the person to set it up, but some sort of national (or royal patronage!?) of a society that was for the preservation of all UK river environments. Not the EA and not the AT (and this in no way is to undermine the AT of which I am a member). The 'RSPR' 'SPAR' 'SPRE' or whatever... One legitimate problem is the bad PR surrounding the very nature of going fishing. The truth is we fishing is more than going out to catch fish and we have the interest of the river well fare deeply to heart. Such a society would perhaps have a more palatable media profile and wouldn't be seen as solely in the interests and dealing purely with the concerns of the (often maligned) angler.
 
Anglers, clubs and associations do a good deal of conservation and protection work to river environments and are also the first eyes, ears and voice in challenging potential threat and damage to river environments. That's one unsung role we do up and down the country already.

Just an idea. A National Society for the Protection of River Environments.
 
I haven't seen much bad PR surrounding angling other than the usual hogwash that comes up on the BBC (fervently anti angling) and groups such as p**a, perhaps the Angling Trust should be doing more than they do to improve our reputation (if that's needed), truth is the none angling public couldn't care less whats going on under the water or in what anglers do.
 
Rather than moan about it, there's two prime examples of things that might be addressed with a better awareness of the good environmental work anglers do. A more sympathetic public ear and an appreciation of the fact that protection and balance of what is below the water has a direct significance on the wellbeing of the habitat it supports above. (cormorants, crayfish, over otterfication, Himilayan balsam, water voles, invertebrates...'once the fish go the habitat balance will go' is surely a more compelling argument than stating that our 'sport' is spoiled.
 
Look at the current Home Page picture of a river Nene barbel - the top of its tail is missing, yet more evidence of otter predation. I've got over 20 photos of similarly (and worse) damaged barbel caught during this season alone. As I've previously posted, these are the lucky ones that have managed to escape - who knows how many have gone to the big river in the sky! Big chub are not as strong as barbel so every time they are grabbed by the tail it's certain death. This sort of thing is happening on a daily basis, all over the country - it's no wonder that I worry for the future of our rivers!
 
Nick Clark said:
Rather than moan about it, there's two prime examples of things that might be addressed with a better awareness of the good environmental work anglers do. A more sympathetic public ear and an appreciation of the fact that protection and balance of what is below the water has a direct significance on the wellbeing of the habitat it supports above. (cormorants, crayfish, over otterfication, Himilayan balsam, water voles, invertebrates...'once the fish go the habitat balance will go' is surely a more compelling argument than stating that our 'sport' is spoiled.
Click to expand...

Bang on!!
 
Nick Clark said:
Rather than moan about it, there's two prime examples of things that might be addressed with a better awareness of the good environmental work anglers do. A more sympathetic public ear and an appreciation of the fact that protection and balance of what is below the water has a direct significance on the wellbeing of the habitat it supports above. (cormorants, crayfish, over otterfication, Himilayan balsam, water voles, invertebrates...'once the fish go the habitat balance will go' is surely a more compelling argument than stating that our 'sport' is spoiled.
Click to expand...




While entirely agreeing with your post I do wonder how this can be done.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top