Petition for the abolition of the closed season on rivers

[Jason Bean]

and at a guess the majority of the random licence holders taking part in the survey don't even fish rivers and may have never done so?

 

[Steve Lewis]

I’m looking forward to the new season as always having gladly put the coarse rods away in mid March,... 9months is plenty for me and I’ve never wanted more so I certainly won’t be clicking on yet another petition to change it.
I sometimes wonder how many who ‘sign’ some of the abolition of close season petitions ever set foot on a riverbank or actually fish the rivers through winter.
Can’t blame some for being like the retail business and wanting Christmas every day I suppose.

As I've said previouslay in other close season related threads, even if the CS is removed, it doesn't mean that you will automatically be able to fish all river stretches immediately. Club leases/licences tend to be for the nine months of the current season and would have to be renegotiated, with an increase in rent to reflect the extra three months, and that is assuming that the landowner is happy for anglers to be on the bank all year round. You also have the issue of waters in SSSIs or other conservation areas where the close season may still apply.

It's not as simple as many people seem to think and would, if it happens, inevitably lead to increased club fees for many river anglers.
Dave

All that pretty much sums up my thoughts.

If, for the purposes of this thread, we completely ignore the protection of spawning and nature in general, the subsequent hassle and shake-up trashing the CS would cause would be absolutely mind-numbing and, potentially, ruin things elsewhere. I mean, christ, one of the main clubs here in the Bath/Bristol/Wiltshire area can barely function properly as it is now, let alone if they've got to re-negotiate and change prices in the case of the CS being abolished. You can't even join on-line!

I have no strong leanings either way - and have said many times I think there are valid arguements for both keeping and abolishing, as well as altering - but a big part of me thinks "keep it as it is" for simplicity if nothing else.

The trouble is, whichever decision is made at the end of this has some negative outcomes attached. There's no getting away from that.

 

[Phil Nixon]

Just to clarify for those using it as an argument, the close season is nothing to do with whether it is an SSSI or not. A lot of the Hampshire avon is SSSI but is salmon fished from Feb 1st until 31st August. A lot of our stretches (Ringwood DAA) are SSSI but our members can salmon and trout fish them during the close season.

Regarding it being at the clubs discretion as to whether to open their river stretches if it was allowed, this is correct and exactly the same was said when the lakes opened and very few of them now operate a close season.

Regarding the rivers being wild and the lakes not, quite right but a fish is a fish.

 

[Mike Hodgkiss]

Re EA survey .Well I have had a quick look . It's a survey which has gone out to 20,000 licence holders . The documentation / research seems balanced and not inherently biased . As for where the 20,000 anglers fish , does it matter ? They are all brothers and sisters of the angle and entitled to express an opinion should they wish . I think it's an honest attempt to establish anglers opinions and in my view is better than a petition

 

[Rhys Perry]

I'd imagine all game angler's would probably vote to keep it, if the EA were keen on not changing things they could easily single out game anglers for the majority of those 20,000.

 

[Joe Winstanley]

Just to clarify for those using it as an argument, the close season is nothing to do with whether it is an SSSI or not. A lot of the Hampshire avon is SSSI but is salmon fished from Feb 1st until 31st August. A lot of our stretches (Ringwood DAA) are SSSI but our members can salmon and trout fish them during the close season.

Regarding it being at the clubs discretion as to whether to open their river stretches if it was allowed, this is correct and exactly the same was said when the lakes opened and very few of them now operate a close season.

Regarding the rivers being wild and the lakes not, quite right but a fish is a fish.

It all depends on the SSSI and the management conditions and consents specific to that SSSI. Some SSSIs that will have a general requirement not to increase the intensity of angling, and therefore increasing the coarse angling season from 9 months to 12 months could require specific consent from Natural England.

In some cases, the SSSI issue might not relate to the river itself but rather to the adjacent land for example SSSI meadows which are notified for their importance to certain ground nesting birds. Any increase in access/disturbance during the breeding season could require consent from NE.

 

[Joe Winstanley]

and at a guess the majority of the random licence holders taking part in the survey don't even fish rivers and may have never done so?

I would like to think that the survey has been sufficiently well designed to be able to filter out the angling preferences of those completing it - e.g. a simple question asking the person completing the survey if they regularly coarse fish on rivers? Perhaps those who been sent forms could advise ?

 

[Joe Winstanley]

As I've said previouslay in other close season related threads, even if the CS is removed, it doesn't mean that you will automatically be able to fish all river stretches immediately. Club leases/licences tend to be for the nine months of the current season and would have to be renegotiated, with an increase in rent to reflect the extra three months, and that is assuming that the landowner is happy for anglers to be on the bank all year round. You also have the issue of waters in SSSIs or other conservation areas where the close season may still apply.

It's not as simple as many people seem to think and would, if it happens, inevitably lead to increased club fees for many river anglers.


Dave

Exactly. Even if the landowner was agreeable to allowing coarse angling all year round, and an affordable rent increase was agreed, there is a cost to having the leases redrafted by a qualified land agent who charge upwards of £500/day. For clubs that rent lots of small stretches from different land owners then the costs could really add-up, would club members and syndicates be prepared to foot the bill?

 

[Rhys Perry]

I can't think of any that don't allow game fishing during the close season. Personally I can't imagine why someone would only rent a stretch for 9 months and not the full year. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong!

 

[Joe Winstanley]

I can't think of any that don't allow game fishing during the close season. Personally I can't imagine why someone would only rent a stretch for 9 months and not the full year. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong!

The lease should specify the type of fishing ( e.g coarse or game) permitted at a given time of year - sometimes for a shorter period than the official seasons. The lease will also contain the ancillary rights such as access etc which may be all year round.

And don't some rivers have different clubs and syndicates leasing the rights for the different seasons?

I'm not arguing that these are good reasons not to change the current status quo, but I'm sceptical that simply abolishing the current close season is as straightforward as some perhaps imagine. I'm also doubtful that many smaller clubs and syndicates would be able to swallow a 25% increase in rent. The last club AGM I went to, a few back admittedly, saw someone propose a modest £20 a year hike in subs to cover the cost of some improvements, you would have thought he had suggested the members were required to fish in their birthday suits with the reaction it got in some quarters!!

 

[Phil Nixon]

and at a guess the majority of the random licence holders taking part in the survey don't even fish rivers and may have never done so?

You are probably correct Jason as there are a lot more lake anglers than

I can't think of any that don't allow game fishing during the close season. Personally I can't imagine why someone would only rent a stretch for 9 months and not the full year. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong!

Rhys, we at Ringwood have 2 stretches of the Hampshire Avon that don't allow all year round fishing, 1 is closed for the coarse fish close season and
we don't have game fishing rights and another is open for our coarse anglers from 1st September until 14th March.

 

[Rhys Perry]

Yes I didn't think about game and coarse being rented by different clubs, this in itself will cause some major problems if the close season was scrapped.

 

[Mark Anderson]

Hi men,

Wont cause any problems , as almost all the stretches i used to fish do not have any game fishing on them , in fact i would go as far as to say the majority of water rented would be of no interest to game anglers . Im coming from a different point , as iv almost given up river fishing , so no axe to grind with either point of view . Local water has just shut down a fishery where carp etc were spawning , sign put up , nobody fishing , easy really.

Hatter

 

[Joe Winstanley]

Many stretches won't have anyone doing any game fishing these days, but someone may still own the game fishing rights, especially on rivers which used to support migratory trout and salmon back in the day.

 

[Graham Young]

Many stretches won't have anyone doing any game fishing these days, but someone may still own the game fishing rights, especially on rivers which used to support migratory trout and salmon back in the day.

Wont those that rent the coarse fishing be aware of anyone renting game fishing on whichever river? if the CS is abolished an agreement will need to be made between the different clubs that's all as far as I see it, no coarse CS doesn't mean that all clubs/ rivers will automatically allow coarse fishing all year round, some stills still have a CS I see rivers as no different.

 

[Jason Bean]

Cherwell 2 days ago.....called at work as pollution incident at Thrupp water gone milky white, local quarry illegally pumping water into the river. Got there, canoeists(family and kids) in the river above a spawning riffle despite signs saying no public right of navigation no canoeing on the river. Walked down the river, 3 Romanians fishing....told them where to go..acted dumb. Driving home 3 English guys fishing another stretch of the Cherwell playing dumb as well.

Today linear fisheries, loads of anglers fishing legally, lots of wildlife, beautiful place and where fish spawn lakes closed.

Anyone one who thinks we should keep a close season needs there brains looking at

 

[Michael Foster]

Cherwell 2 days ago.....called at work as pollution incident at Thrupp water gone milky white, local quarry illegally pumping water into the river. Got there, canoeists(family and kids) in the river above a spawning riffle despite signs saying no public right of navigation no canoeing on the river. Walked down the river, 3 Romanians fishing....told them where to go..acted dumb. Driving home 3 English guys fishing another stretch of the Cherwell playing dumb as well.

Today linear fisheries, loads of anglers fishing legally, lots of wildlife, beautiful place and where fish spawn lakes closed.

Anyone one who thinks we should keep a close season needs there brains looking at

Where exactly was the pollution. I walked the river a couple of days ago, from the Bletchingdon Wides which is just downstream of the quarry, through Shipton and to the start of the Thrupp stretch, didn't notice any discolouration of the water. Which spawning ripple are we talking about?

 

[Terry Simner]

Hi men,

Wont cause any problems , as almost all the stretches i used to fish do not have any game fishing on them , in fact i would go as far as to say the majority of water rented would be of no interest to game anglers . Im coming from a different point , as iv almost given up river fishing , so no axe to grind with either point of view . Local water has just shut down a fishery where carp etc were spawning , sign put up , nobody fishing , easy really.

Hatter

That's the way to do it eh... just put a sign up, lock the gate (if there is one), end of.

 

[Jason Bean]

Where exactly was the pollution. I walked the river a couple of days ago, from the Bletchingdon Wides which is just downstream of the quarry, through Shipton and to the start of the Thrupp stretch, didn't notice any discolouration of the water. Which spawning ripple are we talking about?

It started Monday lunchtime, a walker reported it to the the ea and it was put up on the kidlington village Facebook page. I went down to Bransons about 5pm and the river was white. Then went up to thrupp the same, then went upto enslow and the river was clear walked down to the meadow and it was clear. Got down to bletch wides and just below the train bridge the colour started, the quarry pipe comes in above the bridge. Got down to shipton and it was white.

So almost certainly the quarry pumping in....whether the ea got there in time to prove anything I don't know. I spoke to the ea that day and they said they had strong suspicion where it came from and there guys were onto it.

The river down my way is slowly recovering and has been going through an amazing mayfly hatch lately, fortunately they were only pumping silt in.

Running good now ....I reckon this year will be the best for many on the Cherwell..

 

[Nick Coulthurst]

If the closed season is abolished, some people might have to speak to some other people, and an agreement might have to be reached, rents may have to be renegotiated. Really, what's the problem. If clubs can't afford the new rents, they don't have to extend the season, they can keep it as it is, or another club with members willing to pay will take it on. Simples.