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Otters again

David Clewer said:
All I want to know is what's so special about Kent and can it be replicated in other parts of the country such as Dorset where the Avon and Stour are 'benefiting' from the resurgence of the otter?

Any suggestions as to why the otters have not found their way back into Kent? Topography? No direct linkage to other watercourses?


Dave
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they were mugged, blind folded and dumped in the military canal...:D
 
An interesting farcical situation has now developed on the Dorset Stour to where the commercial eel trappers along with the environment agency are now ‘competing’ with the protected ‘otters’ to kill the remaining CITES red listed endangered eels as they try and migrate back to the sea to breed!
The otters here are being deprived of their natural preferred food supply when they are running down the weirs , in favour of supplying the EA licensed commercial Eel Trappers pocket linked with the EA‘s late in the day and untimely research programme!
You just know what is expected happen to the remaining coarse fish stocks.
 
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Nick Franklin said:
In Oxfordshire though especially, it's pretty heartbreaking for me as a younger angler, hearing about how my local rivers used to be compared to how they are now... And even more heartbreaking is the fact that I can't see them ever getting back to how they were.
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I had just typed the same post, said it for me nick bang on.
 
Thanks for that Ray, I thought it couldn't get any worse. The EA seem determined, not only to shoot them selves in the foot, but also us, in the heart.
 
But as they said, the rivers are so clean now and therefore support such a large head of fish that there is plenty of food for them ....ummmmmm!
 
Ok so Oxfordshire sounds bad along with the GT Ouse and Wensum (some say).

However, many rivers are doing really well, otters and all. So, would anyone care to offer an explaination that doesnt involve furry animals and things with black feathers.

Because to my mind those are not the cause of the decline.
 
Be an interesting time here and in the fishy press when the people who want to be shot of the otter continue to find big fishy bodies. What to do then? Hold a funeral? And blame what? Immos? Aliens? Psycho deer? The then non-existent EA's failure to keep the river clean and fit for fish...?
 
Lets not get hung up on the size thing, they are fish and old fat ones get caught.

A healthy ecosystem is what we should be wanting from all our rivers, good fishing follows.
 
Colin Gordon said:
The Thames, already a drainage channel which main purposes are clearly; abstraction, sewage discharge, a convenient means to run off flood water from the inland to sea and leisure boat craft.

The Cherwell; very similar to the Thames!

The Windrush, well in summer its levels are so pathetic, due in the main to evapouration of the water table, also a dumping ground for sewage.

The Evenlode, absolutely destroyed by the EA's flood prevention scheme; dredging and tree felling etc
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Tony,

I totally agree with you on this, I don't think predation is the cause. As Colin said what really worries me is abstraction, pollution, low flow levels etc etc but predation on top of these issues IS having an impact on already weak and struggling fish populations, fact.

And before I get shot down in flames, I count myself fortunate to have seen Otters in the wild, where they rightfully belong. But as someone who cares about freshwater ecosystems as a whole I don't like seeing them on river systems that CANNOT support them.

This is my last post on this subject, bye and have fun :D
 
It would be a very silly otter who stayed on a river that couldnt support him.

What do they do eat everything and bugger off?

Otters were once very common on all our lowland rivers were they not, before the big decline. Are they now in places where they never were before?
 
Spot on Paul.

Chris - no not the Wye, my local river is the Teme but then it does run in to the much bigger Severn. Though I have to say my daylight sighting was the first in 4 seasons fishing this lovely river.

Cheers

Les
 
Anyone remember the "Death of the Trent" headlines in the late 80's.

Look at it now. Things change.


Steady on Framps, you will be getting as moist as an otters pocket again at the thought.
.
 
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Tony Rocca said:
Crikey, must be grim down south Colin.

Its all fine and dandy oop norf.
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Tony, at the risk of being accused of scare mongering or romancing over former glory days.

As a teenager (20+ years ago), if I were to go on the Cherwell with half a pint of maggots and trot a float along any glide, I'd expect to catch roach and/or dace, once a few were caught move on and in a few hours have accumulated 10 - 15lb of fish.
Now the first big challenge would be to find a dace, any dace, Christ even the adjacent Oxford canal had huge shoals of roach and dace, albeit they were small fish, now all gone!

Barbel were never really that widespread or numerous even in their perceived hey day, now I doubt there are even 30 adults in the whole river.

Barbel nearly all gone, roach, dace, gudgeon, minnows in serious decline, on a plus (ecologically speaking, cos I detest the little buggers) perch seem as numerous as ever and chub though very much less abundant are bigger than they've probably ever been or ever will be.
Admittedly bream are in some areas making a bit of a boom, sadly other areas they're also in decline.

This picture is repeated on the Evenlode and Thames, if it wasn't for the carp I'd never go near the Thames and they shouldn't even be in the river, invasive alien species that somehow the EA now accept as being 'almost' indigenous, why, well stick a couple 20lb+ carp in a stretch of river and hey presto the bio-mass is sky high and probably for a sustained period due to the longevity of carp.

The thing I just continually fail to fathom out is why on earth do the EA year after year carry out bloody fish censuses, blatant waste of time money and effort, when clearly the info is unused.... No habitat improvements, no top-up stockings, no action what-so-ever and certainly the powers that decided upon the Thames valley's suitability for otter re-introductions never read through the census reports, either that or they are just simpletons!!


Oh well my preferred quarry is chub and I like em big, so......
Failing that catching tench and carp is enjoyable enough, I spose.
 
Tony Rocca said:
It would be a very silly otter who stayed on a river that couldnt support him.

What do they do eat everything and bugger off?

Otters were once very common on all our lowland rivers were they not, before the big decline. Are they now in places where they never were before?
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They eat everything, then move on in search of food to gravel pits, farm ponds etc., until they range so far and wide they get run over crossing the road.

It's certainly true that they were once common along our lowland rivers, but that was at a time when the rivers could support them, and didn't suffer the mass abstraction, chemical and sewage spillage, huge increase in the human population etc. etc.

Have you ever seen a 'tame' Otter on the river in broad daylight Tony? I have, quite a few times, and it just isn't natural..
 
Tony Rocca said:
1.It would be a very silly otter who stayed on a river that couldnt support him.

2.What do they do eat everything and bugger off?

3.Otters were once very common on all our lowland rivers were they not, before the big decline. Are they now in places where they never were before?
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1. Where are they supposed to go too??

2. Seems that way but we'll find out for sure over the next few years.
Seems a good time to tell all of a chance meeting I had.
Earlier this year I bumped into someone high up in the RSPB on the banks of the Windrush and he was asking what I though the bird population was doing along that valley, I replied clearly and honestly "in huge decline" to which he asked if I had any ideas as to why.
With a certain warming glow I replied, "well the only things that have made noticeable changes in the last decade are signal crayfish, less fish and otters, draw your own conclusions."
To which he stuttered and stammered, otters preferred prey is fish, my retort "but fish are getting scarce!"

3. I wasn't even born before the decline in otter numbers started but I do know that over the past three decades most southern rivers have changed immeasurably and yes these changes are reversable but what are the chances of that?
 
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