Gents, Have copied in all the valuable (IMVHO) posts from the old board below - not perfect but took me a while to sort the wheat fromt he chaff already! Apologies for taking a while to get round to it too.
Cheers
Andy
timwalden Calling all Multi-Species Specimen Groups
Hello one and all
I've just been reading a thread on another forum and it has prompted me to start this topic.
First of all, an introduction. My Name is Tim Walden and I'm a member of the Milton Keynes Specialist Group.
On a recent group trip, we took a break from the fishing to gather round a BBQ. As the evening wore on, conversation turned (possibly with the aid of sloe gin) to discuss the plight of the multi species specimen group. We all agreed that there is potential for these like minded groups to keep in touch. Whilst the 'political' work is being carried out by the Angling Trust, we all feel there could a lot of enjoyment in building social ties between groups. In a moment of weakness, myself and fellow MKSG member Adam King have agreed to try and bring this about.
However, before we can begin we need to know about all the specimen groups out there! So, if you know a group, and ideally their contact, please get in touch. Please feel free to post the names of groups in this thread, but for privacy please send any email addresses, phone numbers etc by PM.
Cheers,
Tim
P.S. I hope the moderators do not mind this topic, and are happy with it in the 'Barbel Talk' area.
RollingPinBoyGood Work
#1 [-]
Hi Tim...Might be best to contact the Angling Trust and have a chat about your ideas. It did used to happen in the past with National Association of Specialist Anglers (NASA), before they became the Specialist Anglers Alliiance (SAA),
http://www.saauk.org/ who are now dissolved and encompassed within the works of the Angling Trust.
Regards...Ray
Paul Boote#2 [-]
NASA Bashes in the early to late-ish 1980s... Great annual comings-together, tribal gatherings, a huge amount of fishy-talk talked followed by much evening drinking and even more talking (though a lot of it by this time incomprehensible and the worst of it forgotten / forgiven by morning). Everybody was there - Peter Drennan, Rod Hutchinson, Terry Eustace, Eddie T and Vic Gibson, Phil Smith, The Two Ts (Miles & West), John Etherington, Vic (local to me, the man who died far too young and who much influenced Welchie), the multi-rodded Wrathall Brothers and numerous other characters, all of The Carp Boys (North and South), The BCC, Fred's Association of Barbel Enthusiasts, the innumerable Species Study and Specimen Groups and Socs and non-associated, all-rounder, friends-with-anyone-half-civilized sorts like Nigel Haywood, myself and a handful of others.... All talking, all accessible to anyone - at the bar, in the bog between talks, on their own or on someone else's meeting-point stand, encountered in an aisle long after a first bankside meeting many miles / months / even years away - all not trying to put anyone down or quietly take another out afterwards...
Long ago and far way.
Ho hum.
Titus Aducas#3 [-]
Someone mentioned cycles, perhaps a bit of fresh blood re-inventing some of this stuff is whats required, lets face it, they could hardly do a worse job than the older generation.
beany#4 [-]
Good idea...it will be hard work just to get some of these oldies together..... just to enjoy themselves !
At the moment in my region me and a few other lads have been actively encouraging better communication and get togethers between local fishing clubs and it's good too see anglers come together that have not seen each other for years....alot of clubs and groups are getting smaller simply because anglers are getting older in the future smaller clubs will have to amalgamate and alot of hatchets will have to be buried just keep things going and waters available for future generations.
Don't be detracted from what your doing by those who say it wont work, we used to do that years ago and all that negative stuff...just focus on the positives and speak to people who are postive about sharing your ideas.
I did hear a rumour the BSG and BS were looking to bring such a shared role in for them.....something along the lines of "Director of Communications, Harmony and Common Sense"
All the best
Jason
His miserableness#5 [-]
Paul Boote wrote: NASA Bashes in the early to late-ish 1980s... Great annual comings-together, tribal gatherings, a huge amount of fishy-talk talked followed by much evening drinking and even more talking (though a lot of it by this time incomprehensible and the worst of it forgotten / forgiven by morning). Everybody was there - Peter Drennan, Rod Hutchinson, Terry Eustace, Eddie T and Vic Gibson, Phil Smith, The Two Ts (Miles & West), John Etherington, Vic (local to me, the man who died far too young and who much influenced Welchie), the multi-rodded Wrathall Brothers and numerous other characters, all of The Carp Boys (North and South), The BCC, Fred's Association of Barbel Enthusiasts, the innumerable Species Study and Specimen Groups and Socs and non-associated, all-rounder, friends-with-anyone-half-civilized sorts like Nigel Haywood, myself and a handful of others.... All talking, all accessible to anyone - at the bar, in the bog between talks, on their own or on someone else's meeting-point stand, encountered in an aisle long after a first bankside meeting many miles / months / even years away - all not trying to put anyone down or quietly take another out afterwards...
Long ago and far way.
Ho hum.
I agree entirely, the old NASG NASA week ends were brilliant, its a real shame they fizzled out because they were one of the highlights of the year, many firm friendships were forged and many a good evening out in Loughboro/Nottigham Reading Etc was had, The talks were great, many from people you'd never heard of and some of the group photo displays were simply jaw dropping ! However i do sadly think they were of an age where much was new and exciting, many like minded people doing their own thing and exploring new venues, finding fish that few would have believed existed at the time, unlike the present day when really we are mostly trolling over the old tired big fish scene, nothing really wrong with that,its just different, some of us 'oldies ' do still gather now and again, and yes we are still capable of enjoying ourselves but ultimately the old rose tinted specks come out
trentburboter#6 [-]
Ah if only as many of us here who are old enough remember the days of the NASA. Back then it was nearly all about fishing, going fishing, more fishing, then when we got bored with fishing, going out fishing again! I personally feel things went pair shaped as the single species groups grew coupled with the formation of the SACG which was supposed to be the "political" arm of the NASA but eventually went on to outgrow NASA then swallow it up in the unification of the two into SAA. Like a few others I was a founding member of the SAA and I'm still not sure if the move was a good or bad one? Personally, I feel that the time is right for a "union" of the single species groups and individual anglers but will probably get shot down in flames by those high in the ivory political towers for daring to suggest such a thing. And even if something like that were to get started how long would it be before the "politico's" started to make moves at getting such a union of anglers to join them? More damn politics I should imagine which might well put off tens of thousands of anglers from joining such a thing.
So if it were to be some type of org that stuck to pure fishing then count me in.
Regards,
Lee.
Steve Pope#7 [-]
Hi Colin and Happy New Year,
As we speak I'm busy typing out a new blog entry, my new toy gives me all the fun I need from the Internet. Rich is down on the river fifteen minutes away, he's a little more mad than me!
Lee,
You won't hear any objections from me, I personally believe it wa sone of the biggest mistakes the Specialist world made when the more social side of NASA just fizzled away. Sure it was something of its time but there could and should have been something new. I've always believed you have to win the people over before you sell them hard politics, it just doesn't work the other way around.
All the best for the new year and its really nice to see you participating once again.
Steve.
timwaldenYork Specimen Group?
#8 [-]
Many thanks to all of you who have taken the time out to add to this post. One of the groups that might exist is a York Specimen Group. If anyone has any info on these please could they PM it to me.
From the responses received it seems there might be something in this, but we're not going to get any big plans, just take things slowly and see how we go.
Thanks for the support,
Tim
mikevwilson#9 [-]
Lee
It was a year or so after the launch of 'Carp Fisher' [The Carp Society's mag] that I was approached by Phil Smith to upgrade, with Dave Watson, a magazine to replace 'Freeline', the NASG's mag.
It was discussed at length at the following AGM and to encourage new membership Tim Paisley and I suggested a name change to NASA [ National Association of Specialist Anglers].
Brian Crawford was then Chairman [later taken over by Phil Smith], Des was General Secretary and Bruno became the first Editor. You may remember the first issue of 'Specialist Angler' with a kingfisher on the cover. Membership grew fast and the Annual Conference run, I think, by Kevin Stephenson. They were great times. It would be nice if they returned.
Mike
Rich Frampton#10 [-]
Mike...is it not possible for that to happen??
Could another version of NASG exist without having to be linked to the AT???
Cheers
Rich.
mikevwilson#11 [-]
Rich
No reason at all why a similar group/organisation couldn't start up..................
Mike
Rich Frampton#12 [-]
What does everyone else think about that???
It would be interesting to see what people say.
Mike....would a new organisation have to be spawned by a club or society or something???
skin#13 [-]
hi Tim,
I'll put a link to this thread on our Osprey Specimen Group committee board. Will copy to Phil S as he's in our group and, of course, The Coventry Specimen Group. (No website for that one, far as I know).
Will "bat it around" and either I, or the Chairman, will be in touch.
Lee, is the Don Valley Group still going strong?
Si
timwalden#14 [-]
Skin (Si),
I've heard from the DVSG guys and all is going well there.
The responses are coming in well. I'll keep you up to date with progress.
Cheers,
Tim
mikevwilson#15 [-]
Rich
Not at all but a small umbrella group to hold all the groups together [or represent them from time to time] would be adviseable
Mike
Lord Daresbury#16 [-]
mikevwilson
Not at all but a small umbrella group to hold all the groups together [or represent them from time to time] would be adviseable
Mike
Agree totally Mike. No need for it to be led by any 'name', society or club, just guys (or girls) who work for the good of all.
dr barbus#17 [-]
I have stayed out of the Angling Trust (...err....) "discussions" on here, but am a member due to transference from ACA and SAA. My only real gripe with the SAA being assimilated into the Angling Trust is the loss of the NASA, NASG, SAA angling umbrella. I have to admit tho that NASA (and its follow-ons) did start to crumble as the carp guys moved into running the Carp Society and the predator peeps into PACGB, etc. etc.. And by that I dont mean to belittle what acheivements the SAA did in the political spectrum.
I have no axe to grind on this but wonder if some "new blood" could pick up from where NASA ended. If so what direction?
What are going to be the benefits of starting another umbrella group?
Most the single species groups are finding it hard to justify printed magazines or newsletters as the Carp Society found out about five years ago), tho' with the Internet that problem is overcome. But even on that score, as across-species forum, Waterlog suffered eventually and is now just an archived site (as is Pure Piscator). Or will it be a series of annual fish-ins (eg Barbel, Tench, Pike... whatever). Whichever direction it takes (if it does take) it will involve some serious commitment from at least a handful of people to keep it together.
Whatever else NASA did (fish-ins, conferences, publications, networking, angling politics which eventually did lead to the SAA), they also maintained with great credibility, the Specimen Record Lists. PACGB now maintain the Pike List, the Chub Study Group the Chub List, and both Dave Mason (since Brian Dowling's retirement from that) and the Barbel Society two separate river lists. And the latter list shows what the problem is as the last two (Barbel only) lists do not agree. Again it takes a handful of respected people to take this on if it is to work.
skin#18 [-]
timwalden wrote: As the evening wore on, conversation turned (possibly with the aid of sloe gin) to discuss the plight of the multi species specimen group. We all agreed that there is potential for these like minded groups to keep in touch. Whilst the 'political' work is being carried out by the Angling Trust, we all feel there could a lot of enjoyment in building social ties between groups. In a moment of weakness, myself and fellow MKSG member Adam King have agreed to try and bring this about.
Cheers,
Tim
Ummm, chaps, before "we" all get too carried away on who's running who and what under which umbrella..............................................................................
My reading of the above is a loose "Social" type deal, plain and simple.
No strings.
(political or otherwise).
Is that right, Tim?
His miserableness#19 [-]
skin wrote:
timwalden wrote: As the evening wore on, conversation turned (possibly with the aid of sloe gin) to discuss the plight of the multi species specimen group. We all agreed that there is potential for these like minded groups to keep in touch. Whilst the 'political' work is being carried out by the Angling Trust, we all feel there could a lot of enjoyment in building social ties between groups. In a moment of weakness, myself and fellow MKSG member Adam King have agreed to try and bring this about.
Cheers,
Tim
Ummm, chaps, before "we" all get too carried away on who's running who and what under which umbrella..............................................................................
My reading of the above is a loose "Social" type deal, plain and simple.
No strings.
(political or otherwise).
Is that right, Tim?
Spot on as i read it Skin, and a fine idea it is too.
Rich Frampton#20 [-]
Great post....I would have loved to help do something...but I'm not a "name"....not got a list as long as my arm of specimen fish....and don't have a retired or semi retired life style so time would be a big factor......but saying all of that....if it's a team then maybe..... but it would have to not include Ray...... that would do my head in!!!!!
Like I say..it would have to be "independant" in it's running from the AT...in my view.Otherwise what's already there in the AT,if anything,would have to do.
skin#21 [-]
Rich,
I think the Specimen Groups of today are more diverse in their membership's make-up than perhaps in days of yore. With, perhaps, the exception of the long-standing likes of Coventry, most have anglers of mixed ability.
Some "names" (maybe), some very good, some good, some mediocre, some who want to do better in their all-round angling. The only requirement is the willingness to participate, share and enjoy. Very much a case of getting out in proportion to what you put in.
Again, some will get to fish rarely (family and work committments), others will be, as you say, semi-retired and able to go at leisure. As long as each can offer some information or help to all of the others, the criteria for being in the Group is met. By no means all have specimen lists to die for, but some may and be able to pass on their experience affording others some hope and confidence towards their aspirations of catching Big Fish of many different species.
There is little in the way of politics or pressures.
This is how it works in our Group.
cg74#22 [-]
skin wrote: Rich,
I think the Specimen Groups of today are more diverse in their membership's make-up than perhaps in days of yore. With, perhaps, the exception of the long-standing likes of Coventry, most have anglers of mixed ability.
Some "names" (maybe), some very good, some good, some mediocre, some who want to do better in their all-round angling. The only requirement is the willingness to participate, share and enjoy. Very much a case of getting out in proportion to what you put in.
Again, some will get to fish rarely (family and work committments), others will be, as you say, semi-retired and able to go at leisure. As long as each can offer some information or help to all of the others, the criteria for being in the Group is met. By no means all have specimen lists to die for, but some may and be able to pass on their experience affording others some hope and confidence towards their aspirations of catching Big Fish of many different species.
There is little in the way of politics or pressures.
This is how it works in our Group.
Excellent well balanced post skin and reading Tim's original thread starting post and after pm'ing him I believe this is 'HIS' aim!
timwalden#23 [-]
Skin, His mis, cg74,
You are all correct with what our intentions are - for purely social reasons. We have no aims to 'step on the toes' of the AT, who are carrying out the essential work that was previously done by SAA etc.
As mentioned above by skin, our specimen group is very similar, and it is this same attitude we'd like to continue and extend.
I'm amazed and really pleased at the response on here, and will do all i can to make things happen quickly, but these things take time. So please feel free to PM me if you have any queries.
Cheers,
Tim
trentburboterNot an easy task, but "very" interesting and actually workable.
#24 [-]
Good morning all,
This is my opinion on Tim's idea given various comments so far.
Firstly, Tim's basic idea is workable but all concerned should appreciate from the get go that this project needs structuring properly. But before one can start that task Tim is wholly right to gather in opinions from all interested parties. There will of course be pitfalls from the outset. Many of the groups for instance abide by their various constitutions resulting in complications arising from such groups wanting to affiliate to a new group or umbrella? In many cases such a move could only be agreed at their AGM's plus grass roots group members will be asking the important question, "Why should we join?" So any team dedicated to setting up this new group needs to have all the answers "BEFORE" going out to the groups or indeed any prospective individual members because trust me, is the "individual" members that will drive this idea forward. Why? Because those already working for their various groups simply don't have the time for anything like this as most people are already stretched working for the groups they belong to. Having said that, we have a vast wealth of experience out there amongst the committees of the UK angling groups so Tim is off to a sterling start by approaching these people for their opinions AND future use as sounding boards. Personally, I feel it would be counter productive to structure Tim's idea around the groups alone as that would bring about, sooner or later, all the historic reasons why such unions failed in the past. The groups "with" individuals is the way to go I feel but structure the new group away from previous "proportional representation" set ups to one based around "all for one and one for all" type of thing. Something new, something fresh.
Angling Politics as in the AT type? The very mention of angling politics to the vast majority of anglers out there will be enough to completely destroy Tim's idea. Grass roots anglers, not to mention many in existing group membership plus many committee members of the same, don't go a bundle on angling politics and that's a FACT. (Sorry no pun intended) But the one thing that "DOES" bind all these anglers together for all time is their love of fishing. PURE FISHING and everything connected to fishing and going fishing. Its also a FACT that the various angling political quango's formed over previous years and right up to this day failed miserably in connecting with grass roots anglers or the pure fishing side of angling. There is a massive army of anglers out there just waiting for something like this to be formed. Tap into this "correctly", and something really special would be born. Individuals as well as the groups could all have a platform within any new group created but a lot of the old ideas need to be binned. This idea needs to be innovative and fresh; it also needs to embrace modern thinking, modern technology, and what the angler of today "really" wants.
Another aspect so vitally important ,would be the "in house" communications any such likey group would employ. Traditionally this has taken the form of magazines and newsletters sent out by post to memberships. This method is both expensive and time consuming but crucially, does not lend itself to any cutting edge technology where information can be "instant" within the group. In my opinion, any such groups "hub" should be website based. Obviously a dedicated team needs to be formed to make that possible but this is a fairly easy task. The advantages of a website based hub are massive and the list of possible content is endless. One could have all the usual stuff associated with snail mail magazines and news letters but also bang up to date news items and on going angling features. With increasing band width created by hits from a growing membership the tackle trades could be encouraged to advertise within the site which would provide revenue for the group giving it added funds for other group projects. For the "politically" minded, links to say the AT could be slotted in so as to give the members "a choice". The AT should not be dismissed but neither should it be rammed down angler's throats either. Another way to encourage "quality" articles within the website would be to offer links and web space to say angling guides in return for a couple of articles a year from them? This type of ploy kills three birds with one stone in that the group membership get to read ongoing interesting articles, they get a full choice of the services guiding offers, and the guides themselves get some very useful advertising to help out their businesses? Everyone wins. And let's not forget the likes of Andy Frances who each in turn give us platforms for various angling related stuff. A link to his shop might come in handy as it would for the new groups members. Of course all this merely scratches the surface of what a really good web based hub could contain but you get my drift?
Group run events? Crikey the list is endless. A summer ball for instance. A big bash for members, spouses, indeed whole families. A summer barbeque for instance with ball in the evening? Fish ins. Group teach ins, angling competitions. Photographic competitions. Angling Fairs. Angling fairs? Yes indeedie and why not? Tap into that massive army of anglers out there with pure fishing content and a web based members hub and you would become big enough to hold a "good" angling fair in association with the tackle trades. Food for thought?
Righty o then. I'm off down the river now amid frost and snow for a couple of hours to see if I can tempt a fat chub or sleepy barbel out from beneath its lie.
Regards,
Lee.
His miserableness#25 [-]
There you go Tim, get yer teeth into that lot
TOP POST.
skin#26 [-]
mikevwilson wrote: What a shame that Tim's initial post has now been hijacked with what appears to me as personal bickering. I'm not interested in such issues or the history behind them. Time to go sadly as its not for me.
Goodbye
Mike
I concur, Mike.So much for "real names" making a difference.
Pity, since I had a chat today with one of the MK Group members who's a friend, he was telling me about his 3 season quest for a particular monster fish on a large (100+-acres) pit, he's had no bites, seen one (average-sized) fish roll at distance and doesn't even know if his "Moby Dick" is even still there or alive, yet he still persists in chasing the dream.
I've had the same myself on a similar size pit, except after
any fish
It being more the allure of the place, lack of pressure, but the chance of an unknown Monster, possibly as yet uncaught. Any indication on the rods quickening the heartbeat. Took me 5 seasons to catch my first two fish, both PB's. The first season I lost a big fish of unknown species, 3 times in two weeks from the same spot. Stepped up the tackle each time, and lost it each time. It became
my "Moby Dick" and my guess is it was either a very big eel, or a large catfish. (Which is not supposed to be there.....)
It's a different world of fishing.
Specimen Groups, in some ways, represent an extreme of angling, if you take Lee's "grass roots" anglers (plenty of bites, quantity over quality?) as the standard and the majority. Single Species Groups are perhaps nearer the latter, overall, but with some Specimen hunters in their ranks?
Never mind, maybe another day.
Simon
dr barbus#27 [-]
Tim
May I make a suggestion.
Why not simply set up a Yuku Forum to discuss this?
You can sign post it from here and anywhere else and as administrator you have edit rights so that the meaningless posts simply disappear!
It would be a start and enable the idea to progress. A small seed (or even acorn!)
(If you need a forum dictator I could even do it for you!
)
Bait Boat#28 [-]
----------------
Good Idea Tim,
It would be good to meet up with some old friends and make some New ones in the Specimen ranks.
Lets try and keep internal politic's out of this discussion and concentrate on on REAL Specimen Hunters !
Bob
