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Knotless knot and scalded pellets

Jon Kennard

Jon Kennard

Senior Member
So managed last weekend on the wye was so nice to be back on there. Did some reflecting on the 3 hour drive home.
1st up knotless knot. Never had an issue with them tied to size 12 hooks albeit smaller guru commercial hooks. I used these as thought i might get a few more bites not bruv the usual korum carp style hooks i use. Anyway waited the 2 days for my first babel bite 45 mins from the end. Barbel on for 5-8 seconds before it comes off! Line was snapped just above the hook obviously gutted to loose the fish and leave a hook in it. Anyone else experience this it was a brand new 9.4lb powerline and have thoughts? I wondered if the hook was to small for the line being it passes through the eye twice (not easy to get through) then pulled too much on the line there rather than on the hook?
2nd thought Scalded pellets first time ive used them. Worked well good idea like the idea of a glug to boost the pellets. What glugs do people think are best? Same in winter and summer? Depend on the pellets used? Appreciate your thoughts thanks Jon
P.s anyone for a medium size baitrunner for sale?
 
An observation I've just made watching some tutorials on the knot is that i brought the line back the eye the incorrect way! For example not the hook point side but the shank side would this cause the weakness?
 
It's the acute angle of the line on the bend of the hook under strain. Time IME that is the weak point. Fluoro too. You might want to choose a more robust line too. Hope this helps.

Jon
 
I always use a 'Combi link" as hook length on the Wye comprising of at least 12lb mono with minimum of 10lb braid (max 2 inches) attached to hook with said knot.
Nothing wrong with the Guru hooks, I personally prefer the MWGB micro barbed and have landed Barbel to 14.9 on a size 16, although I wouldn't recommend trying that on purpose (fishing for Chub on feeder at the time) but in size 12, 10 they are capable of landing big fish.
 
"9.4lb powerline" ... is that a mono or a braid? If mono, or fluoro, esp a pre-stretched version, then going twice through the eye could easily cause crimping, and reduce b.s. by 50% or more. ....IMO
 
Thanks chaps i believe its a mono. The reason i used it was ironically its never let me down on still waters landed big powerful fish on it. However tired straight to the hook not knotless knot. I think the answer was the hook and its eye was to small probably not helped by me pitting their line back through the other direction. Keith totally agree the hooks themselves are solid why i went for them but the eyes were to small putting to much pressure on the line.
 
I had similar problems with the Korum Xpert hooks when they came out, tracked it to the inside of the eye not being properly finished and having sharp edges. I also use Powerline in various strengths for my hook length and since switching to Guru hooks I've had no further problems, they are excellent considering how little they cost.
 
Preston powerline is very thin for the diameter great for tying direct to the hook. Over the years on BFW and on the riverbank anglers have mentioned getting broken on knotless knots and mono line. Its something that can cause an issue and should be avoided and removed form our arsenal.It might be ok for a while but will eventually cause a snapped line. Its a great knot for braid but as John said mono makes for too acute an angle through the hook eye on that knot. The contact area on that knot is too small for heavy pressure and mono especially thinner mono
 
Thanks gents ive never read about that mono and power line before. Only started river fishing last year's again after many years away. I ever thought about gong old school and tying a fine separate hair to the eye of the hook. The day ticket i was fishing doesn't allow braid else i would of used it. Lesson learnt in think I'll leave powerline for the still waters and use other for hook lengths. Going to look to tie some old school hairs to.
 
Jon, maybe you will find out they do not allow braided mainline, lots do not but most allow braid hooklengths.
 
On the issue of knotless knots : Years ago, when I fished the Teme a lot, I used to colour my braid hook-link red/brown with a marker pen and use a knotless knot. One day I stuck into a barbel and within seconds all went slack ... my braid had broken, right at the knot. On examining the 'break-point' I noticed the braid at the extreme end was almost white in colour. Didn't quite understand immediately what was going on so re-rigged and carried on fishing as normal. At the end of the day I re-examined my hooklink, and there it was again ... the colour from the marker pen was totally gone from the point where it went over/through the eye. This showed me that there was greatly increased friction/wear at the point where the line ran over the eye of the hook. After that I used a spot of Superglue on the eye, and checked it for wear every cast. It's definitely a weak point.
N.b.. I asked if the "powerline" used was a mono, fluoro, or braid as there's been a lot of lines called 'power'. If it's Preston Reflo Power (line) then yeah it's thin (presumably pre-stretched), as Mark said :
Mark Swaby said:
Preston powerline is very thin for the diameter
Click to expand...
I've found that too Mark :p:p:p
Twice through the eye with that line with any knot would be risky IMO. I had a similar massive problem with Grand Max Soft+ fluoro. Gorgeous line, but snaps like cotton if used incorrectly.
 
If it only happened once could it not just of been a case that the line had been nicked on a snag. I always run my fingers up and down my hooklink and bottom end of my mainline in between casts to feel for any nicks
 
Hi Jon . I use Drennan Supplex in .23 and .26 ( 10lb and 12lb) when I feel I need a littte subtlety and on pegs I feel are free of snags using my softer rods. I always check and more often than not change my hooklength after a fish capture.Not as often as I’d like unfortunately. As Jon F suggested you might need a more robust line. As an aside if it’s preston power line you are using I use it for my canal pole rigs. It’s brill but the diameter is overstated so I buy 0.01 less than I need.
Cheers Simon
 
Jon Young said:
If it only happened once could it not just of been a case that the line had been nicked on a snag. I always run my fingers up and down my hooklink and bottom end of my mainline in between casts to feel for any nicks
Click to expand...
Good bit of advice that thanks. I was literally first cast with that new hook length. Equally it could of hit something whilst in the water.
 
Terry Simner said:
On the issue of knotless knots : Years ago, when I fished the Teme a lot, I used to colour my braid hook-link red/brown with a marker pen and use a knotless knot. One day I stuck into a barbel and within seconds all went slack ... my braid had broken, right at the knot. On examining the 'break-point' I noticed the braid at the extreme end was almost white in colour. Didn't quite understand immediately what was going on so re-rigged and carried on fishing as normal. At the end of the day I re-examined my hooklink, and there it was again ... the colour from the marker pen was totally gone from the point where it went over/through the eye. This showed me that there was greatly increased friction/wear at the point where the line ran over the eye of the hook. After that I used a spot of Superglue on the eye, and checked it for wear every cast. It's definitely a weak point.
N.b.. I asked if the "powerline" used was a mono, fluoro, or braid as there's been a lot of lines called 'power'. If it's Preston Reflo Power (line) then yeah it's thin (presumably pre-stretched), as Mark said : I've found that too Mark :p:p:p
Twice through the eye with that line with any knot would be risky IMO. I had a similar massive problem with Grand Max Soft+ fluoro. Gorgeous line, but snaps like cotton if used incorrectly.
Click to expand...
My only response must be that the great Keith Speer used Preston Reflo Power for almost all of his trotting landing Barbel far larger than most of us dream of, I have used it ever since and find it to be superb specifically because it has 'stretch' unlike other low diameter lines.
 
Keith Humphreys said:
My only response must be that the great Keith Speer used Preston Reflo Power for almost all of his trotting landing Barbel far larger than most of us dream of, I have used it ever since and find it to be superb specifically because it has 'stretch' unlike other low diameter lines.
Click to expand...
But did he tie twice through the eye Keith?
 
Keith Humphreys said:
My only response must be that the great Keith Speer used Preston Reflo Power for almost all of his trotting landing Barbel far larger than most of us dream of, I have used it ever since and find it to be superb specifically because it has 'stretch' unlike other low diameter lines.
Click to expand...

I had a day fishing with Keith and he put me onto this line and it’s one I load up my pins for trotting too. It’s very strong for its diameter and pretty supple too. Saying that, I’ve not tied a knotless knot with it. I predominantly use braid (coated with the last section stripped) for hair rigging because it’s one of those occasions where floppy outscores stiff.
 
Keith would not have tied a knotless knot whilst trotting and this is the issue that Jon is talking about. Keith did change his line last winter from powerline to preston Xceed he told me it had a more accurate diameter. Normal knots that wrap the hook eye are not a problem with preston or any other line,i use it myself. The problem is with a knotless knot only one tiny area of the line touches the hook eye, other knots wrap the eye so the stress is spread over a larger area. Try using your thumb and forefinger as a hook eye then use your other fingers or thumb to represent different knots. On a knotless knot you only have to use one finger and it only touches the top of the eye opposite the angle of pull On most other knots you have to use both thumb and forefinger to represent the knot so a larger contact area
 
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