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Karen Twine research

Or bloody well apologise
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I apologise for any offence taken as none was intended. Perhaps I'll do a PHD on Cormorant predation...a better ananlogy and another protected species.

Nick PM me with your concerns and I'll try to answer them rather than string it out across this thread. My inital comments relating to predation are more relevant (or not) depending on which area of the country you come from. I'll pm you specific details from my perspective so that you understand where I'm coming from.
 
Anthony Pearson said:
Neil, the cold hard facts regarding predation have yet to be researched properly. As anglers we all have our anecdotal evidence, but this is as far as it goes (none of this hasn't been collated as far as I'm aware).

PS Regarding the length of barbel, it certainly threw up a surprise in my neck of the woods!
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That's true Anthony, however the data as submitted only goes to 2009, and we all know what sort of decline there has been since then, and I guess we know where the fingers are pointed at.

But whatever the true numbers are now, and assuming the Otter is the main culprit as Karen points out because Otter are a protected species then Barbel are merely fodder food. (Not her words).

It is frustrating, and the decline in numbers is alarming, but the fact that still big barbel are coming out, (although not to me) and also there does seem to be a good number of juvenile barbel. But every cloud...and the high Roach population, to me, is a real delight.

Her Winter/ lower temperatures analysis is interesting as she states that the foraging for food in colder stronger flows result in Barbel seeking out lower river systems where foraging is less energy draining.

I live in hope :)
 
True Neil, but what about rivers that are in effect sectioned by a series of weirs? Surely the barbel don't just drop down? Having said that, the wharfe may be a prime example of downstream movement which has become almost permanent!
 
I can see no problem with Anthony's comment.
Perhaps you may have a personal issue with Anthony from previous posts?
 
Anthony Pearson said:
True Neil, but what about rivers that are in effect sectioned by a series of weirs? Surely the barbel don't just drop down? Having said that, the wharfe may be a prime example of downstream movement which has become almost permanent!
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I think what is key here the Barbel have the 'will' to seek waters lower down the system, the fact that they may not be able to is an issue, agreed.
 
Anthony Pearson said:
True Neil, but what about rivers that are in effect sectioned by a series of weirs? Surely the barbel don't just drop down? Having said that, the wharfe may be a prime example of downstream movement which has become almost permanent!
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Also the Severn, which is a good example, where last season the River was mostly in flood condition for long periods there were a large number of Barbel caught, this season has been the direct opposite, some anglers thought that they 'were there', but I had my doubts, this comment in the report might support what I think. Although the low temperatures would not be a factor, but the stronger upstream flow could be.
 
It does take all sorts Lee. And yeah Tony I do miss PB and Pete Marshall they would have expressed themselves better; been either more entertaining or informative in the process. Immigration in the uk is irrelevant to the survey and it's not a given that we are all in the same ideological boat. I felt it had to said however awkward it makes me look saying it. And to be honest if that offends anyone then tough. I like fishing for barbel that doesn't mean I want to join the BNP.
 
Meanwhile back at the ranch.....

I was already aware of Karen's thesis, which is a splendid piece of work. My thanks to her and BFW for allowing others to share it.

Regards,
Hugo

 
barbel moving upstream downstream, yes it happens, i have witnessed barbel trying to jump weirs, landing on the apron then again jumping from there
and seen barbel travelling d/stream over weirs they do:)
 
Four pages already, has anyone actually read it yet.

And Nick, there was absolutely nothing racist about Anthony's analogy. It was a comment about immigration control, no race or culture was mentioned!!
 
Karen also makes it clear what her study is about in the abstract and it does not focus on predation - she is more interested in what she terms as 'environmental factors'. So we should not be surprised that there is not that much on otters and/or crayfish. A study of the impact of these on their own is least one Ph.D.

Being stuck at home i read all this yesterday and it has some interesting findings - a number of which are not new eg need for backwaters, protection of spawning areas, along with some more contentious ones such as sedimentation by cattle, tree planting (given years were spent removing them).

Overall we need to bear in mind this is a PH.D and, having done one myself, i know the author has to follow a certain structure and there is a limit to what can be covered. So we should bear this in mind when commenting

What would would be interesting a number of years on is to see how many of 20 tagged barbel are around now. Maybe that is post-doc work in progress?

BTW i have never fished the Great Ouse and am not likely to - but watching Matt Hayes on the upper section fishing for chub is very appealing.

For those of you interested in the Thames and river management general - a project near me is just starting,

River of Life

it will be interesting to see what impact it has on the quality of fishing on this stretch, above and below upstream and down stream.
 
Agreed, the issues of immigration do not make you racist; certainly not in this context.
 
Yes Ian, Lee, regarding my rant last night, wrong use of the word ‘racist’ and my apologies I stand corrected.

I found it hard to read Anthony’s analogy that concluded “immigrants are protected under an EEC directive there are no options for controlling numbers to reduce societal pressures.†without seeing red and thinking of more sinister interpretations. I doubt Anthony meant it in the context I read it so again apologies to Anthony.

Not trying to be clever or have the last word, nor wish to divert people away from reading Karen’s report and the subject of this thread. I read the initial report she made a few months ago and it made for very interesting reading and like others here thank her for letting us see the full work.
 
That's an apology from both of us, which should put the matter to bed. As Nick says, thanks to Karen for the work she's done and for sharing it with us. Let's now see if we can put it to good use.
 
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