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Is it still ok to just use pellets?

Wilson and I caught lots of Barbel on The Thames a couple of years ago after a baiting campaign using Cooked Maple Peas.

Used them purely because they are cheap (would have to be to get Mike to throw any in, he did not get to build up the estate around Wilson Towers by chucking in expensive bait) and we did not have to throw in too many (Mike could get the bucket to fit in the boot of the Aston) and Barbel love them!!

I have had a few Barbel this year on Maggots Caster Hemp and Tares so there is life after Pellets!
 
Adrian Williams said:
Are you suggesting raw tigers are a problem? If so what are you basing this suggestion on and do you have any evidence to support this assumption?

You talk of fatalities due to tiger nuts, how were the fish killed? Were the fish autopsied by an expert to determine the cause of death or was it just fishermans gossip round the lake?


Yeah right:eek:, as if any post-mortem has ever been seriously undertaken to investigate a one off fish death:rolleyes:.
There was Benson last year, died as a direct result of ingesting peanuts and I know that's a fact cos I was told so on the Ten Oclock news:p.
Wasn't the angler sat in a swim near to where Benson was found dead had been eating them himself, oh no they killed the fish, end of:(!

When someone actually shows me scientific based evidence on such fish deaths then and only then will I believe.
What causes the fish to pop its clogs?
Toxins removed by soaking and boiling of the said nut, hmm very doubtful seeing as many advocate soaking, boiling and then leaving the nuts to ferment in the same water.

The nuts swelling in the fishes digestive system, plausible but take a look at a set of carp pharyngeal teeth and you'll see not much gets past them without being well and truly ground up.
And if this was the case wheat, barley and maize should feature far higher up the list of must ban baits:eek:!

And for the record I soak, boil and ferment ALL my particle baits in the same water and am yet to see any floating upside down in the water as a result:rolleyes:.

To much myth mongering, too little facts!!
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Interesting read Richard & Ian - not sure whether I should say this, but these barbel are very carpy! One thing tho - for all my hours barbelling on the Trent I have only ever caught one carp - a 12lb Koi! Upon reflection, this always surprises me. Keith - I like the idea of maples - cannot get a cheaper particle & have not used these since 1986!

Adrian, John comments were not really a knee jerk reaction. At the very least isn't it best to err on the safe side?

My understanding is that a minority of anglers have bought them dried & not given them enough time to swell to their maximum size. These take more preparation than any other particle - I soak for 24 hrs, rinse, soak another 24hrs & inspect for complete turgidity - then boil in pressure cooker 30mins (an absolute must) & then leave to soak again.

Tigers, despite not being nuts, can swell up taking on water and may bloat to over twice their original size. If the carp eats them un-soaked this swelling could take place inside the fish leading to death. Note that poorly prepared tigers are rock hard. Despite cooking, its only becomes less hard rather than soft. Not all food is macerated by the pharyngeal teeth - I for one don't chew all my food. Even if it was macerated it still has the capacity to swell.

Buy quality particles from a reputable supplier ensuring the likes of peanuts, are human grade.

Yes, there is a lot of conjecture in the fishing fraternity & even tho I read peoples repeated warnings, I don't mind if it saves a few fish going through that fate. So be it regardless of conjecture or not.

I see where your coming from Adrian, but I'd say its best to be aware at the very least.

Cheers, Jon
 
Please lets not kill this thread by something thats been covered a number of times. Conrad opened this yesterday & now we are on the 44th reply. Its been pretty good hearted so far.

Cheers Jon

PS About the time of maple use a lot of anglers were using the chick pea. Did many people flavour the chick pea or use this straight
 
Thanks Graham - sorry to repeat your wise words ;)

It seems that anything thrown their way could be consumed on the right day. Nothing been said about the use of beans. Mung beans I think are in some pigeon conditioners - any takers?

Cheers, Jon
 
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Jon Whelan said:
Adrian, John comments were not really a knee jerk reaction. At the very least isn't it best to err on the safe side?


Tigers, despite not being nuts, can swell up taking on water and may bloat to over twice their original size. If the carp eats them un-soaked this swelling could take place inside the fish leading to death. Note that poorly prepared tigers are rock hard. Despite cooking, its only becomes less hard rather than soft. Not all food is macerated by the pharyngeal teeth - I for one don't chew all my food. Even if it was macerated it still has the capacity to swell.

Cheers, Jon
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This worry over swelling is one which is often quoted and is misguided.

The fact is cyprinids don't have an acid stomach where food is digested; instead they have a gut.
This is in effect a long tube linking the mouth and the vent. It has got the capacity to swell to accommodate a glut of food and when dissected is typically twice the length of the fish. This alone allows for quite allot of swelling to take place but if you factor in the fact that the gut is an open ended tube controlled by a sphincter muscle it is quite simple to see that should the fish fill up on tigers which consequently swell in the gut the worst that will happen is a few undigested lumps of tiger will pop out of the vent which is easily capable of opening wide enough to accommodate it.

So that's myth number one busted...:p
 
Wish I hadn't mentioned it now !
For what it's worth, I was going to use the ready prepared ones ! Expensive I know, but I am not prepared to take the risk !
I was thinking of using as either a single hookbait or as a hookbait amongst 1/2 a dozen or so freebies, common sense tells me not to overfeed with a bait like Tigers.
I will be giving them a go this coming season on a water where I can easily observe the fishes reaction.
Funny, we are quite happy to feed Barbel a bait which is designed for Salmonoids (Trout Pellets), but the use of Tigers causes such a fuss !?
If we were to think about the impact of pellets, would we be so keen to use them ?
People who use Milk Protein (HNV) Baits are often ostracised, but like any bait, used thoughtfully and in moderation, they have a place !
I am probably going to give the old Tutti Frutti/Scpoex/Pineapple type baits a go as well ! Who knows, the change from pellets may just be the answer to the lean times we have all experienced recently !

Paul M.
 
Paul,

I mentioned the pellet problem in the last sentence of my post #40. As for using tigers my advice is go for it and don't worry about overfeeding, as can be seen from my post above it's virtually impossible.;)
 
Thats far too much info there Tony.... The secrets out now..... great bait.
 
Great bait - caught some quality roach on trotted cheese....great for a number of other species.
So say Cheese and smile.
 
I know someone who claims, and I have no reason not to believe him, that he had a few barbel on strawberries. He used to cut them in half and impale them straight on the hook.
He also claims that blackberries work almost as well.

Paul
 
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They eat elderberries (one of my first Thames and float-caught barbel came from a once-famous, bankside elder, roach swim not far from Windsor back in the mid 1960s), so why not other reddish fruit?
 
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I remember watching a Matt Hayes programme where he was carp fishing on an Italian river. He had some right clonkers on strawberries.
 
Well, it would appear that more than one or two are suggesting that it's not OK to use pellets.
I'm not convinced just yet but I'll not use some of the quantities talked about in weeks, months or even whole seasons.

The ones that I despair of are those that superglue those ponsey little elliptical pellets to hairs. Far too much like hard work, and they cost more too!;););):D:eek:

Here fishy fishy!
 
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