How longs your hook link ?

[Bob Watson]

After a bit of an issue with fluro recently I've been trying out different options. My new method is quite a long hooklink of coated braid with the last few inches stripped. Binned the feeder and now favour a lead with a PVA bag of dry pellet nicked on the hook.

When cast in there's enough air/buoyancy in the mesh bag to allow the (very slow in some swims) flow to straighten the hooklink whilst the lead touches down. If I use a feeder I'll still use a small bag of dry pellet on the hook to straighten the hooklink.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

If I use a feeder I'll still use a small bag of dry pellet on the hook to straighten the hooklink.

If you didn’t want to use a bag every cast the pva nuggets are very good at this job if needed.
However I use coated braid on every venue of lengths of over 4ft sometimes. A Feather down before impact always sees it perfectly straight. I don’t bother with pva to open it up there’s just no need. It’s so supple the feather down and rivers flow will sort it.

 

[Bob Watson]

If you didn’t want to use a bag every cast the pva nuggets are very good at this job if needed.
However I use coated braid on every venue of lengths of over 4ft sometimes. A Feather down before impact always sees it perfectly straight. I don’t bother with pva to open it up there’s just no need. It’s so supple the feather down and rivers flow will sort it.

I always feather the cast aswell but on a slow flowing water I've still had braid hooklinks come back tangled up around feeders and leads.

I have a carrier bag full of nuggets that I'd forgot about in an old net bag hung up in the shed

 

[Clive Kenyon]

I cannot get on with coated braid. For one thing the hooks thay I use haven't got big enough eyes for the braid to pass through twice. The other thing is I cannot for the life of me strip it without the floss bit becoming damaged.

I make tapered furled leaders of varying lengths which end with a small link swivel so the actual hook link is only 9". The length of the whole leader could be anything from 2 foot to 6 foot. Last week however, because of trees and vegetation I went down to a 12" hooklength and still caught.

I also believe that when a lead or feeder goes down it takes the bait straight down, vertically. No amount of current will straighten a 3 foot leader with a pellet or boilie bait. The bait and leader will pile up on or very near to the feeder. Try dropping your rig in from a bridge and you will see what I mean. A PVA nugget or bag will help to straighten it out if there is a significant flow. What I do is feather the line after the weight hits the water until it settles on the bottom then lift the rod to move the lead od feeder towards me. That straightens the leader.

 

[Dan Whitelock]

I use about 4' of Pro Logic fluorocarbon with an inch combo of soft braid by the hook. It's rare I cast as most of my fishing is lowering it off the edge of the marginal reeds and hiding out of the way.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

I cannot get on with coated braid. For one thing the hooks thay I use haven't got big enough eyes for the braid to pass through twice.

You strip the first few inches, not pass the coating through.

The other thing is I cannot for the life of me strip it without the floss bit becoming damaged.

Good quality soft coatings don’t suffer this. I strip it easy between my fingers.

No amount of current will straighten a 3 foot leader with a pellet or boilie bait.

Yes it does very easily and it doesn’t need to be powerful either. I’ve sat and watched my rigs go down hundreds of times. The current has no problem aiding the rig straight if you feather down before impact and get that bait out infront

What I do is feather the line after the weight hits the water until it settles on the bottom then lift the rod to move the lead od feeder towards me. That straightens the leader.

it will work yes but unnecessary imo. Used long coated braid links for years on some very slow and very fast rivers and never had a problem getting them to lay correctly.

 

[Clive Kenyon]

1st point: for a uni knot the whole length has to go back through the hook eye. I used Kryston coated braid. It needed to be removed with finger nails or similar.

Regards the current straightening the hook length: only with fairly buoyant baits like sweetcorn or luncheon meat. Even then the bait goes straight down behind the feeder or lead and only begjns to drift when the weight has hit the bottom. It doesn't go down at the same distance from the weight. With heavy baits like pellets or boilies the bait doesn't get chance to straighten the leader.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

1st point: for a uni knot the whole length has to go back through the hook eye. I used Kryston coated braid. It needed to be removed with finger nails or similar.

Regards the current straightening the hook length: only with fairly buoyant baits like sweetcorn or luncheon meat. Even then the bait goes straight down behind the feeder or lead and only begjns to drift when the weight has hit the bottom. It doesn't go down at the same distance from the weight. With heavy baits like pellets or boilies the bait doesn't get chance to straighten the leader.

When the lead hits the deck the bait will sink slower and the current will move it before it also hits the deck. The key is the bait infront of the lead on water impact, the lot then sinks vertically and when the lead impacts the bed the bait will go down slower and in an arc unless your fishing a ridiculously slow river with practically no flow at all

 

[Clive Kenyon]

When the lead hits the deck the bait will sink slower and the current will move it before it also hits the deck. The key is the bait infront of the lead on water impact, the lot then sinks vertically and when the lead impacts the bed the bait will go down slower and in an arc unless your fishing a ridiculously slow river with practically no flow at all

You must be a magician Richard. Because what you say defies the laws of physics. If the swim is deeper than the length of the leader then the bait will be drawn very close to the path of the weight's descent, and there is no way that a dense bait such as a pellet would straighten out a 3 foot leader once the lead hits bottom. Having the bait land in front of the lead will not change a thing.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

You must be a magician Richard. Because what you say defies the laws of physics. If the swim is deeper than the length of the leader then the bait will be drawn very close to the path of the weight's descent, and there is no way that a dense bait such as a pellet would straighten out a 3 foot leader once the lead hits bottom. Having the bait land in front of the lead will not change a thing.

Ok Clive well rather than go round in circles I can tell you I have no problems getting long leaders to lay flat like many barbel anglers.
How we do it is as you say magic

 

[Joe Winstanley]

I sometimes use hooklengths as long as 6' (gin clear water, bright sunny daytime conditions) and I don't think there is a great need to over think things and start worrying about them lying flat or going to extremes to avoid tangles.

Using an angled run-rig set up such as the ones produced by Fox and Korum which allows the lead to hang straight on the cast, added to that a decent length boom an the top of the hooklength (I like the 54mm Bank Tackle ones) and employing nice smooth underarm lob which is feathered down and 19/20 it's job done. PVA bags help, but I think its best to have the PVA bag tied to the lead as often the bag can roll downstream for a second or two before fully opening up, so by tying it to the lead if your using a longer hooklength the contents can end up closer to the hookbait rather than a yard downstream of it. A PVA nugget is a better option imo and it may also help to protect the hookpoint as it settles, perhaps more so when using a straight point hook.

 

[Terry Simner]

You must be a magician Richard. Because what you say defies the laws of physics. If the swim is deeper than the length of the leader then the bait will be drawn very close to the path of the weight's descent, and there is no way that a dense bait such as a pellet would straighten out a 3 foot leader once the lead hits bottom. Having the bait land in front of the lead will not change a thing.

What you propose Clive is fairly indisputable in a certain situation, but that situation would be : casting into still water with zero drag exerted on the line above the lead/feeder (i.e. both lines : that above, and that below, the ledger/feeder, would sink to the bottom ~vertically). But if there is any flow then that force will have a greater sideways effect on the bait than it will on the lead. But you have variables here. That is, the effect of flow (sideways force) on the bait compared/relative to its effect on the lead would be dependant on the size/buoyancy of the bait compared to the lead. E.g... the effect of the flow on 1/4 tin of spam cast out below a 1/4oz lead would be much greater than the effect of the flow on a single Elips below a 2oz lead. And that's not taking into account any drag on the line above the lead/feeder, drag that will take that line off its trajectory towards the river bed. That is, a lead/feeder cast out on un-feathered line will fall to the bottom almost vertically ("almost" as any current will result in it having a resting place on the riverbed at a distance slightly downstream of where it hit the surface, that distance being dependant on the flow, the weight cast, the weight's resistance to the current [feeders obviously exhibiting more resistance], and the depth of water). But if the line is even slightly feathered then the course of plummeting line above the lead/feeder will not be parallel to the line below the lead/feeder. In fact, the line above the lead/feeder will be at an angle away from vertical towards the rod tip, and the lead/feeder will fall in somewhat of a arc if the cast is feathered hard (i.e. on a virtually tight line). Then you've got the slight drag on the line above the lead/feeder by the river water itself.
But all that, and much much more, is by the by, and of little or no import. What is important is, if drag is applied to a cast line (via feathering) then the line below the lead/feeder should be in a straight line, so that line should not tangle with itself. Yes, if the water is shallow, if the hooklength is long, if the current is slow, if the bait is light/buoyant, then the hooklink could possibly come into brief contact with the line above the lead/feeder. But you'd have to be unlucky for them to actually tangle together.
Basically, given a certain situation then I'd agree with you Clive ... but what Rich says is easier to agree with. That is, feather down and you'll get a lot less (or no) tangles.... and the rest is theoretical bo**ocks

 

[Graham Elliott]

If you use a tulip bead, the one with the point, it kicks out the line when used in conjunction with a ring ( such as the snag free system) that sits over the pointed end.
Very very few tangles above the lead/feeder.

A simple Power pro hooklink works well in the 20lb plus bs.

I have no doubt on my rivers that the bait sits below after the cast, feathered down or not.
Usually once the lead hits the bottom or before.

It's not rocket science just common sense.

 

[Richard Isaacs]

What you propose Clive is fairly indisputable in a certain situation, but that situation would be : casting into still water with zero drag exerted on the line above the lead/feeder (i.e. both lines : that above, and that below, the ledger/feeder, would sink to the bottom ~vertically). But if there is any flow then that force will have a greater sideways effect on the bait than it will on the lead. But you have variables here. That is, the effect of flow (sideways force) on the bait compared/relative to its effect on the lead would be dependant on the size/buoyancy of the bait compared to the lead. E.g... the effect of the flow on 1/4 tin of spam cast out below a 1/4oz lead would be much greater than the effect of the flow on a single Elips below a 2oz lead. And that's not taking into account any drag on the line above the lead/feeder, drag that will take that line off its trajectory towards the river bed. That is, a lead/feeder cast out on un-feathered line will fall to the bottom almost vertically ("almost" as any current will result in it having a resting place on the riverbed at a distance slightly downstream of where it hit the surface, that distance being dependant on the flow, the weight cast, the weight's resistance to the current [feeders obviously exhibiting more resistance], and the depth of water). But if the line is even slightly feathered then the course of plummeting line above the lead/feeder will not be parallel to the line below the lead/feeder. In fact, the line above the lead/feeder will be at an angle away from vertical towards the rod tip, and the lead/feeder will fall in somewhat of a arc if the cast is feathered hard (i.e. on a virtually tight line). Then you've got the slight drag on the line above the lead/feeder by the river water itself.
But all that, and much much more, is by the by, and of little or no import. What is important is, if drag is applied to a cast line (via feathering) then the line below the lead/feeder should be in a straight line, so that line should not tangle with itself. Yes, if the water is shallow, if the hooklength is long, if the current is slow, if the bait is light/buoyant, then the hooklink could possibly come into brief contact with the line above the lead/feeder. But you'd have to be unlucky for them to actually tangle together.
Basically, given a certain situation then I'd agree with you Clive ... but what Rich says is easier to agree with. That is, feather down and you'll get a lot less (or no) tangles.... and the rest is theoretical bo**ocks

I’m hopeless at explaining things like this and find it much easier to get things on paper. It’s very simple I don’t put a lot of thought into it as I know it works.

The exception is obviously an under arm plop where it’s difficult to feather from but so long as the bait is plopped out down stream of the lead I find it sorts it’ self out with the rivers current doing the rest.

 

[Terry Simner]

I’m hopeless at explaining things like this and find it much easier to get things on paper. It’s very simple I don’t put a lot of thought into it as I know it works. View attachment 16520View attachment 16521View attachment 16522View attachment 16523
View attachment 16524

The exception is obviously an under arm plop where it’s difficult to feather from but so long as the bait is plopped out down stream of the lead I find it sorts it’ self out with the rivers current doing the rest.

If I'd been as artistic as you Rich I could have saved myself a lot of words

 

[Richard Isaacs]

If I'd been as artistic as you Rich I could have saved myself a lot of words

Big black sharpie and several wavy lines…….. that’s the extent of my artistic side.

 

[Adam Wylie]

Use a helicopter rig

 

[Terry Simner]

Use a helicopter rig

C'mon .... that takes all the skill outa casting

 

[Simon Archer]

Worth a look.

 

[Tim Marks]

Worth a look.

That video is hilarious.

Specialist anglers worked out decades ago that short hook links work really well on stillwaters. I did in 1985 - when tench started biting my hooks off long hook Links.

Rob H has done numerous articles in the carp angling press looking at the theory and practice of what different rigs actually do under water. Similarly Paul Garner wrote a book on the subject - ‘underwater angling‘ Much of it filmed by a mate of mine. We test rigs underwater and they often don’t do what we think they do…..we once emptied a hard carp water with a particular rig and when we actually tested it; it was a total abortion. But the fish didn’t seem to mind !

Maybe somebody needs to make a modern version of ‘up close and personal’……