• You need to be a registered member of Barbel Fishing World to post on these forums. Some of the forums are hidden from non-members. Please refer to the instructions on the ‘Register’ page for details of how to join the new incarnation of BFW...

High Speed Rail Link

Dear oh dear, the same old arguments were wheeled out for HS1 and now we can see that people hardly notice it is there and it has given UK PLC a massive economic benefit, and I bet that half of you have used it! Mmm maybe you guys never use trains though....

The cost of this is irrelevant because you are buying infrastructure and without that the economy chokes. Its called investment. I do not see anybody proposing an alternative and longer trains with longer platforms on existing lines will come no where near it. Maybe another M40 then instead?

The moaners about this are by and large well off NIMBYS in the Chilterns, the Tory Im all right jack brigade that remain insular from the bigger picture. They are the ones backing Cameron and his big society as long as it does not arrive anywhere near their back gardens. Such hypocrisy stinks and it should not be at the detriment of everyone else.

Get it built the sooner the better, and also get runway 3 on the go. Runway 4 as well whilst we are at it. So what a couple of man made production fishing lakes will be lost, who really cares about that? There is plenty more about if that's what you like.
 
Thank goodness for that sensible reply which is clearly based on fact not on what was heard on some phone in and cleary not in the least bit stereotypical.:rolleyes:
 
John Glover said:
Dear oh dear, the same old arguments were wheeled out for HS1 and now we can see that people hardly notice it is there and it has given UK PLC a massive economic benefit, and I bet that half of you have used it! Mmm maybe you guys never use trains though....

The cost of this is irrelevant because you are buying infrastructure and without that the economy chokes. Its called investment. I do not see anybody proposing an alternative and longer trains with longer platforms on existing lines will come no where near it. Maybe another M40 then instead?

The moaners about this are by and large well off NIMBYS in the Chilterns, the Tory Im all right jack brigade that remain insular from the bigger picture. They are the ones backing Cameron and his big society as long as it does not arrive anywhere near their back gardens. Such hypocrisy stinks and it should not be at the detriment of everyone else.

Get it built the sooner the better, and also get runway 3 on the go. Runway 4 as well whilst we are at it. So what a couple of man made production fishing lakes will be lost, who really cares about that? There is plenty more about if that's what you like.
Click to expand...

so what benefit is that that john?
you believe the rubbish the government comes out with then...:rolleyes:
who will use it,
not normal folks that's for sure, by the time 2026 comes, it will be £500+ a ticket.
it's just a few man made lakes, it's peoples homes, it's noise, it's years of disruption, it's going to be a nightmare, but not for you, but your ok jack!
as for local jobs, it's the Olympic rubbish argument yet again, foreign labour, Chinese steel, Germain trains.
32bn, how many schools and hospitals could you improve and build for that.

all this for 20 minutes, sounds like it's worth every penny...:confused:
 
David Will said:
Thank goodness for that sensible reply which is clearly based on fact not on what was heard on some phone in and cleary not in the least bit stereotypical.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Phew for a minute there I thought it was a constructive remark.
 
Well as a person who makes a living out of building and maintaining railways I have a interest in this project mainly to see if it will commence before I retire in 15 years (subject to moving goalposts and lest not forget general elections).
The fact is that we are a growing country and population and unless we invest in new infrastructure we and our economy will grind to a halt.
On Network rails website in the public domain there are numerous documents which outline the strategy for the next generation of the railway.
Most lines are expected to reach full capacity in the next ten years and anyone who does travel by train will tell you that standing is not a long term option.
Longer trains are being introduced and platforms extended to allow increases in capacity but because of signalling capacity and the way this interfaces with trains there will be a point very soon when you we not be able to fit any more trains onto the network.It will become log jammed just as we are seeing on the motorways.
The new line will enable an increase in passenger traffic but also importantly open the other routes to accommodate the ever increasing goods traffic which is now moving across to the railways.
Normal folks do need to work to feed their family's and the fact is most people now travel a good way to their place of work or in the course of it.Maybe that should change but that will need some doing so the need to travel will need to be dealt with.
The current plans for enhancement on the existing railway over the next ten years will spend a lot of money and only just keep pace with progress.The railway was built along time ago and lets be honest is not really fit for purpose and we should be looking at more new routes with the closure of the inefficient routes.This will enable more people and goods to travel by train and leave the car at home.We must as a nation change our habits and use transport which is more efficient than one person in a car.
As for the grief and hassle brought about by the construction process.Yes its a big job and there will be some,but the industry has moved forward and the current design will enclose the majority of the new line in either tunnels and cuttings with a large amount of the tunnel materials recycled for use.
Has any one been effected by the recent Evergreen projects which enhanced the Chilton lines through the midlands ,I doubt if many noticed it even happen.Same thing with eurotunnel and now cross rail.
We as an industry are pretty good at what we do, look at the Olympics on budget and on time with the vast majority of the steel work fabricated in Yorkshire and 80% of the work done by British labour.
The investment in this line will have far reaching effects and its not about saving 20 mins to get to London its a lot bigger than that.
Move on I am afraid or face an even bleaker prospect.

Ken
 
David Hall said:
so what benefit is that that john?
you believe the rubbish the government comes out with then...:rolleyes:
who will use it,
not normal folks that's for sure, by the time 2026 comes, it will be £500+ a ticket.
it's just a few man made lakes, it's peoples homes, it's noise, it's years of disruption, it's going to be a nightmare, but not for you, but your ok jack!
as for local jobs, it's the Olympic rubbish argument yet again, foreign labour, Chinese steel, Germain trains.
32bn, how many schools and hospitals could you improve and build for that.

all this for 20 minutes, sounds like it's worth every penny...:confused:
Click to expand...

Do you really not know? Most countries around the world who connected their major cities by rail many years ago grew their economies considerably.

No I do not believe everything the government tells me but I am not so naive to assume everything they tell me is a pack of lies.

Really ...what people cant afford to use HS1? I must have been dreaming it when I saw it packed with normal holiday makers off to France.

Yes it is noise and some homes will go, that is what happens when construction takes place. Someone was probably affected when your house was built but your OK Jack??

Oh dear we cannot make steel or trains competitively. Whose fault is that then? Lets not do anything ever again.

Do you use trains? Do you use roads? They are called infrastructure just like the hospitals and schools you mention. That investment comes back in later years.
 
John Glover said:
That investment comes back in later years.
Click to expand...
just the same argument the labour lot used about the dome and it was given away in the end, just the same thing that is used about the Olympic village,
i can see most of that falling into disrepair or given away.
the railways are private but millions in subsidy from the tax payer is the only reason they run, the argument in the 90's by the major government was that subsidy's would be fazed out in the next 20 years.
in 1991, when The Queen Elizabeth II Bridge was opened, a scheme allowed DRC Ltd a 20 year concession to collect revenue, although this could be ended early once debts were repaid,again, another lie, that charges would be removed after the cost of building it was reached.
HS2 is the elephant in the room, and it's a big white one.
 
David Hall said:
just the same argument the labour lot used about the dome and it was given away in the end, just the same thing that is used about the Olympic village,
i can see most of that falling into disrepair or given away.
the railways are private but millions in subsidy from the tax payer is the only reason they run, the argument in the 90's by the major government was that subsidy's would be fazed out in the next 20 years.
in 1991, when The Queen Elizabeth II Bridge was opened, a scheme allowed DRC Ltd a 20 year concession to collect revenue, although this could be ended early once debts were repaid,again, another lie, that charges would be removed after the cost of building it was reached.
HS2 is the elephant in the room, and it's a big white one.
Click to expand...

You see David this is where your argument completely falls apart. It moves into shaming and blaming tactics from perceived misdemeanour's past and attempts to link them with the present. The Dome nor the Olympic village were or are vital transport infrastructure. They are simply not related regardless of how they are financed.

How railways are financed and subsidized is a separate issue in any case. I do not smoke so should my taxes be spent on NHS patients that do? Neither has anything to do with HS2.

Finally you still have not stated what the other options are to the rail capacity issue. If no HS2 then what would you do? ( See Kens detailed post on this ) Unless you truly believe that doing nothing is an option, and I do not believe even you are that naive. Feel free to prove me wrong though.
 
Forget the economic arguments, forget what any government said or didnt say, forget where or how it is to be built, just go abroad by train, to France, or Spain, or even Belgium...BLOODY BELGIUM...and look at the quality of their rail system. Why shouldnt Britian boast a similar standard of rail travel.

I went to Bruges recently, and we travelled from Brussles to Bruge ( a 1 hr, local to local journey) on a double decker, high speed, SPOTLESS train, with comfy seats and a clean servicable toilet.

Then we came home and we travelled from Paddington to Reading on a Gt Western train. Oh dear oh dear.

Invest in the infrastructure and build for the future. The only argument I would have with this plan is if the trains wern't built in the UK
 
Last edited:
Hmm let's see here, so they start the project rolling, all contracts will go out for tender and I suppose most of them will be won by other countries, Germany for there trains ect, ect, no doubt the uk ones will scrap for the crumbs.

Public services are designed to make private profit not provide a service. This one is no different.

A high speed rail link to get me to more Retail Parks with JJB sports shops, NEXT, Boots and McDonalds !! Now where was that Industrial Park, I'm sure it was there somewhere, are sh*ite not another JJB! What I mean is that the industrial and Manufacturing part of this country has long since gone, all you see is these pesky retail parks where once stood factories.

I have had many happy times at Harefield and Savay. I think these high speed trains need to have arrow straight rails to get to 200mph, there will be lot's of upset along the way until this is completed.

Progress I guess
 
Last edited:
The government reckons it will take 60 years to recoup the money they have spent on the railway!! In my opinion its gonna be a even more of a flop than Torres move to Chelsea. Lets be honest its only built for fat middle classed businessmen whose wobbily legs cant handle the normal journey down from Brum but their wallets probably can.
 
Also a little snippet out of a national paper

HERE IS NO BENEFIT TO LOCALS'
Caroline Owen-Thomas will lose her home and business when HS2 is built.
She runs the Weights & Measures Gym at South Heath near Great Missenden in Buckinghamshire.
The proposed route goes straight through her business.
The 50-year-old said: 'We knew it was going to happen and now we are in a state of limbo.
'I have put my life into this business and it is also my home.
'I have built up my customers from the local community and I don't know where I will re-locate. It won't be easy to find somewhere else. How will they value my business and my home?'
Ms Owen-Thomas's neighbours Geoffrey Sheraton and Phillipa Bevan have pinned a poem to their gate. It reads: 'In this area of beauty so natural and stunning The sad news for you is the train is coming."
Susan Allison, 83, has a model 'No to HS2' white elephant outside her home in the village of The Lee. She said: 'It is going through David Cameron's back garden at Chequers, but he is still supporting it.
'It will ruin the area. There is no benefit to local people. The trains won't stop here and there is a perfectly good station at Great Missenden.'


Read more: HS2 high-speed rail link gets green light but it won't be ready for 14 YEARS | Mail Online
 
Interesting points both for and against but while those against the HS2 have clear and understandable objections, those who approve don't. There is a lot of use of words such as "infrastructure" and " economic growth" but not much detail. This seems to be a generalisation to support the project but, much like the EU, nobody seem's able to spell out exactly how it's going to be of such great benefit and financially justifiable. Is it really that important to get from London to Birmingham X amount of times quicker than we can now? Does that really justify 17 billion pounds? Will it really be such a huge boost to our economy that it will pay for itself?

I'm not saying t won't satisfy any of these points; but the actual genuine benefits of such a huge outlay and it's overall impact need explaining in a bit more detail.
 
Go men ,

Dave , how's put 3 looking these days ?. I loved the place , but was gunho , running around the valley carping :D . What's the score with it these days ?. Pm if you want.

Hatter
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top