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Heron vs Predator!

Nigel Gray said:
That footage wasn't shot at some secret otter farm, it was taken at the Tamar Otter & Wildlife Centre in North Petherwin, near Launceston. The clue is in the name of the poster 'tamarotterwildlife' which suggests that it was someone from that organisation who actually posted it on YouTube. (if youre still not convinced, the video names the two adult otters as william and hilda, both of whom are mentioned by name on their website. Interestingly their website states:-

"The British Otters are usually held in pairs or as family groups. They are Carmen, Coady, William, Hilda, Pluto, Harriet, Tamarisk, Lottie, Tor and Ellie. We rehabilitate and release orphaned otters"

Although it doesn't mention what they do with the cubs they themselves breed...

They can be contacted at info@tamarotters.co.uk if you want. ;)
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Surely not Nigel? Why, that's almost unbelievable isn't it? Those of us who have voiced concern on this forum over the otter situation in the past, who have been talking about these frequent and ongoing, unauthorised and unregistered releases into the wild....have been shouted down by the the louder and 'better informed' members. They tell us it doesn't happen, that it's all lies and smear campaigns spread by the hate mongers, that the last otter release was back in the nineteen nineties, and that the numbers of released otters is actually very small. Well well well....strange old world, isn't it :rolleyes:

Cheers, Dave.
 
Not really Dave, they're orphaned wild otters being re-released, not captively bred to re-populate areas, such as what many like yourself suggest still goes on.
Nothing unauthorized or unregistered about it, and certainly not happening in 'secret farms':cool:
 
Any idea what happens to the otters they breed from their pairs of captive otters?
 
The word "secret" perhaps was wrong, but the fact Otters are stil being bred for release is not..Very good question Nigel..The fact that orphaned Otters are turning up at these places to be cared for and then RELEASED again proves the point that most areas are already populated by Otters so where do they get re-released?..I have made this point before so i will say it again,..The RSPCA voiced concerns regarding the amount of near to death young Otters that were being brought to the RSPCA's attention. They also said their hands were tied and they basically were getting them back to health only to re-release them almost certainly into another area ALREADY populated by other Otters..They then die anyway either from being attacked by resident Dog Otters or through starvation...But hey they are still endangered..Its places like what has been mentioned that these orphaned Otters turn up, so like Nigel has asked, where do these Orphaned Otters go once brought back to full health?..:mad:
 
Tim you mean this:
The Otter Trust is the world's leading Otter conservation organisation, the only place in the West Country breeding the British Otter regularly and reintroducing young otters into the wild to save the otter from extinction
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I think you've just answered your own question there Craig, they go back into areas already populated by otters and end up dying anyway! They may think they're doing the right thing by 'saving' these orphans, but in fact are doing nothing of the sort. Bear in mind that the repopulation of otters in Britain is considered a resounding success, Kent aside (maybe they're all being released here!), I'd say any more being bred for release is a futile exercise, hence my reluctance to believe this is still going on, that and no one has any proof of it anyway.
So in short I'd say the otter problem is unlikely to get any worse, and is most definitely not going to get any better, as no one is ever going to sanction a cull. If we actually look after our natural waterways in other areas, the natural balance of otters and fish will return, otters and fish being natural to this country! Bear in mind also that they're not a problem in an awful lot of places, so in places that they are a problem, we need to be looking at the bigger picture, not simply KILL THE VERMIN!!
Yes, maybe they were released in certain areas at a time they couldn't realistically be sustained, but its to late for that now, and if anything positive can be gained from that, it highlights just how much needs to be done in these areas in order to sustain fish and their natural predators.
Anyway, we've been over this a million times and to be frank:
rhys-perry-albums-pics-picture3486-4315682b-16fe-4439-a86c-37f37691143d.jpg
 
anyway the eels are well gone in most parts of this fair land, so the otters normal nocturnal diet is history. They only come out at night, as the once great Edgar Winter said.

DM4076.jpg
 
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I was reading that earlier, its about time we as a community stood up to this scum! I blame that infernal rap music.
 
Tim Lennon said:
New Forest Wildlife Park

and read the mission statement and conservation here. of course they're breeding the things and slinging em into "our" rivers!
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It is becoming apparent from the last page and some investigation work from the members on here, it contradicts a number of statements from the EA.

Surely if the EA deny any underhand introductions (well meaning or not) this would amount to cruelty if the otter populas on that particular stretch is already high and a detriment to all species within that area.

Maybe we should all adopt an otter and find out and track what happens to them with the latest newsletters we will receive.

Imagine the plaque at the New Forest Wildlife Park sponsored by BFW it's a win win.

Adopt an Animal!
... and become a real part of our Conservation Programme!

A large number of visitors wishing to do more to help us with our ongoing conservation programme have elected to join our adoption scheme for many of our animals.
 
Various misguided and silly wild life groups are active in nursing orphaned and injured wildlife back to health and then releasing them. The do this with foxes, badgers, otters and no doubt any other cuddly animal they come across in the wild. This is a pointless exercise as these released animals will in the main get killed and eaten pretty quickly.

Releasing animals captive bred or orphaned is in the main a complete waste of time and energy. As some one who wanted to see otters return to their natural habitat I was opposed to the captive breeding and release programme when it happened and argued about it at the time with many in the conservationist movement. I argued that reinstating habitat and removal of the pollutants that caused the decline should always be the priority over re stocking. Much the same as I argue now over fish stocking .....

In my view those who were pro release are over stating their contribution to the success of otters. I don't believe the re introduction programmes had anything near the impact these groups claim and am always surprised that anglers seem to constantly give credence to these groups, like the Otter Trusts, claims.

Otters were not re introduced anywhere on the Severn catchment (at least not legally) thanks to those who argued strongly at the time that otters would naturally re colonise from their existing colonies once habitat improvements and the pesticides that prevented them breeding (and harmed insect life to the detriment of fish) were removed. This has been the case.

The Otter Trust's re introduction program wasted time, money and effort that would have been better spent dealing with the environment. The same applies to the animal rights types now involved in nursing "little baby foxes" et. al. back to health and then feeding them to their wild cousins.
 
Pete Marshall said:
Various misguided and silly wild life groups are active in nursing orphaned and injured wildlife back to health and then releasing them. The do this with foxes, badgers, otters and no doubt any other cuddly animal they come across in the wild. This is a pointless exercise as these released animals will in the main get killed and eaten pretty quickly.

Releasing animals captive bred or orphaned is in the main a complete waste of time and energy. As some one who wanted to see otters return to their natural habitat I was opposed to the captive breeding and release programme when it happened and argued about it at the time with many in the conservationist movement. I argued that reinstating habitat and removal of the pollutants that caused the decline should always be the priority over re stocking. Much the same as I argue now over fish stocking .....

In my view those who were pro release are over stating their contribution to the success of otters. I don't believe the re introduction programmes had anything near the impact these groups claim and am always surprised that anglers seem to constantly give credence to these groups, like the Otter Trusts, claims.

Otters were not re introduced anywhere on the Severn catchment (at least not legally) thanks to those who argued strongly at the time that otters would naturally re colonise from their existing colonies once habitat improvements and the pesticides that prevented them breeding (and harmed insect life to the detriment of fish) were removed. This has been the case.

The Otter Trust's re introduction program wasted time, money and effort that would have been better spent dealing with the environment. The same applies to the animal rights types now involved in nursing "little baby foxes" et. al. back to health and then feeding them to their wild cousins.
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Couldn't agree more with most of that Pete, though your '(at least not legally)' quip could conceivably be more significant than you are probably happy to admit? Whatever, I suppose the fact is that we will never now for sure how many otters were released, nor how many of those releases were successful. We certainly wont be able to prove one way or the other how big a part those releases played in the current levels of otters on our waters....or whether releasing captive bred otters who have been raised in artificially close quarters has effected the density that nature would otherwise have allowed. Apart from that last part, I don't suppose any of it matters much either...what is done, is done.

There is no disputing your main point though. The money and effort spent on those projects would have been immeasurably more helpful had it been used to help improve the environment, thereby allowing nature to handle things in it's own magnificent way.

Cheers, Dave.
 
Tim Lennon said:
The Tamar Otter Sanctuary, Launceston @ Cornwall Connect

Read what it says underneath the picture of the lovely family of otters (can't seem to copy and paste it)....
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There ya go........ The Otter Trust is the world's leading Otter conservation organisation, the only place in the West Country breeding the British Otter regularly and reintroducing young otters into the wild to save the otter from extinction.
 
maybe the rivers will dry up and the otters will migrate to the nearest carp puddle..lol
 
I did like on thr home page "two lakes with waterfowl" nothing else but waterfowl??
 
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