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Global Warming

My take on this is that we are certainly going through a period of climate change, the evidence of the receding icecaps is indisputable.

We are also going through a global population explosion which if it were happening to any other species we would be describing as a plague.

I'm not qualified to even speculate if these two things are related but I do think nature has a way of evening things out and a population explosion in any species is usually followed by a population crash as food and other resources (oil, clean water, shelter, healthcare etc)become scarce.
I think most of us alive today will probably survive into old age but I would not like to offer odds for the grandchildren of the younger members of the forum collecting their old age pensions.

The survivors will be facing a very different world with less emphasis on global growth and more on sustainability. If they think of us at all they will remember this period in history as the most wasteful decadent time there has ever been.
 
Adrian Williams said:
My take on this is that we are certainly going through a period of climate change, the evidence of the receding icecaps is indisputable.

Yes,...well probaly Adrian,..I have never denied climate change, but remain sceptical as to what causes it. When lectured and patronised by those, whose zealotry seems on course to bring this country to it's knees, I tend to wonder if it is they, and not me who has lost the plot. [not you Adrian!]
Just a point about the artic sea ice,..I typed in 'artic sea ice mapping errors' and found an interesting piece within the NSIDC [ National Snow & Ice Data Center]...In 2009 over a 6 week period between early Jan. and mid Feb. due to 'Sensor Drift' they made an underestimation of artic sea ice of 500,000sq kilometers [193,000 sq. miles] !! At least they were big enough to own up to it I guess,...but you had to try hard to find it !
Right,..enough tit for tat,..I totally agree that it is an all-consuming fast expanding human population that is the real threat., but unless the Pope has a change of tac, and politicians decide to commit political suicide whats going to change in the western world,..let alone the developing world?

Closer to home,..and bringing this back to a piscitorial level,..almost forgot we're on Barbel Talk! The south east is set to become one of the most densely populated pieces of real estate in the world, when there is already too many drinking from the same well,..it is going to be one hell of a struggle to protect the integrity of our rivers from over-abstraction and STW's in the not to distant future.
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Joe Fletcher said:
Perhaps we will end up like Kevin Costner and taking to out boats :(
I know it will buggar up the Barbel fishing :rolleyes:
Perhaps when he made this movie , He knew that one day it might be for real :rolleyes:


Waterworld (1/10) Movie CLIP - Revenge at Sea (1995) HD - YouTube
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Blimey Joe, there's food for thought,...Don't want to buy any rods and VERY expensive waders I suppose?
No, I reckon it will be like 'Soyant Green'...Where we get euthanased and become tommorrows dish of the day!
 
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David Gauntlett said:
Absolutely right Lee. It's identifying exactly what that something is that is the problem. If we knew for sure, we may (or may not) be able to take effective measures to mitigate it. Most of the ineffective nonsense we have been paying through the nose for thus far, such as wind and river turbines, are purely money making (for those involved) stop gaps that virtually everyone involved knows will never make an ha'porth of difference. They are a 'jobs for the boys' stunt in an effort to be seen to be doing something, while the government/s fiddle and faff about doing not a lot of any real use. Again :rolleyes:

What is certain is that deforestation is the major problem we face at the moment. The global rain/tropical forests are the lungs and CO2 sinks that we rely upon for our existence, certainly in the way we recognise at this moment. Despite that, they are disappearing at an ever escalating rate, in large part to satisfy the insatiable greed of international companies, and the huge 'other world' of obscenely rich executives and shareholders those companies revolve around. Deforestation is ongoing and seemingly unstoppable, basically because the companies involved will use any trick available, usually in the form of kick backs, and the third world countries where the last remaining vestiges of these vital forests exist...are ruled by corrupt governments all too willing to take those bribes. As a result, deforestation is apparently shaping climate and geography, and is responsible for approximately 20% of world greenhouse gas emissions (slash and burn etc.). So...the forests that once were the major natural means of mitigating other sources of those damaging emissions....are now major contributors to those same emissions in their death throws. And all in the name of the big buck...senseless greed.

It seems nodody is quite sure as to the exact extent of deforestation, but scientists estimate that one fifth of the world's tropical rainforest was destroyed between 1960 and 1990. Apparently rainforests 50 years ago covered 14% of the world's land surface, whereas now that figure is down to only 5–7%, and that those last outposts of tropical forests will be gone by the middle of the 21st century.

So next time you or I eat a 'Big Mac' (The need for ever more Beef range is one of the major contributors) or fail to notice the palm oil content in next to everything we eat (vast palm plantations for oil is another massive problem), or follow the latest trend of seemingly acres of 'decking' in our back gardens, we are tacitly agreeing to allow this outrage to continue. So very, very sad.

Cheers, Dave.
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although i agree with all your sentiments ,and your right deforestation is bad ,but has little effect on weather systems .i'd be more worried if they decided to eliminate marine algae (marine algae produces 70+% of the worlds oxygen) .because deforestation of rain forrests has little effect on weather (its another global warming myth/misinformation) as they only produce about 20% of the worlds oxygen .but what deforestation does is destroy the eco system and habitat of unknown number of species and native peoples who live in the rain forrests .plus it undermines the land structure and when the tropical rains fall theres nothing there to bind the earth or hold the water .so landsides become a risk and excess water becomes run off and swells the rivers causing floods.deforestation is poor land management ,poor commodities management ,poor govermental practice and theres bound too be big bucks in it for someone.

its shocking to think its been pushed by enviomentists and global warming theorists /"scientists" alike that rain forests produce the worlds oxygen ,but the truth is they dont at best they're the suplimentry supply .marine algae produces 70-80% it flucturates (thats why nature provided trees as reserve back up) . and trees only absorb a small amount of carbon dioxides ,grass as a whole absorbs more and other plants etc absorb plenty.

deforestation of rain forrests is yet another govermental exploitation of nateral resorces /land and even enviomentist who you'd think would be more honest in their opposition use propaganda and misinformation to suite their own agenda of global warming theory
 
Steven Devereux said:
although i agree with all your sentiments ,and your right deforestation is bad ,but has little effect on weather systems .i'd be more worried if they decided to eliminate marine algae (marine algae produces 70+% of the worlds oxygen) .because deforestation of rain forrests has little effect on weather (its another global warming myth/misinformation) as they only produce about 20% of the worlds oxygen .but what deforestation does is destroy the eco system and habitat of unknown number of species and native peoples who live in the rain forrests .plus it undermines the land structure and when the tropical rains fall theres nothing there to bind the earth or hold the water .so landsides become a risk and excess water becomes run off and swells the rivers causing floods.deforestation is poor land management ,poor commodities management ,poor govermental practice and theres bound too be big bucks in it for someone.

its shocking to think its been pushed by enviomentists and global warming theorists /"scientists" alike that rain forests produce the worlds oxygen ,but the truth is they dont at best they're the suplimentry supply .marine algae produces 70-80% it flucturates (thats why nature provided trees as reserve back up) . and trees only absorb a small amount of carbon dioxides ,grass as a whole absorbs more and other plants etc absorb plenty.

deforestation of rain forrests is yet another govermental exploitation of nateral resorces /land and even enviomentist who you'd think would be more honest in their opposition use propaganda and misinformation to suite their own agenda of global warming theory
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Britain was once largely forrest, then we cut the majority of the trees down. If todays scientists were around in those days they would have predicted doom and gloom as a result of this action. As it turned out the living world adapted as it always does and life goes on, admittedly without bears and wolves and beavers and goodness knows what else, but the process of natural selection means that as one environmental door closes for one species then another opens............
 
Cut the lot down and we loose what?


More than 20% of Earth's oxygen is produced in this area, thus the name "Lungs of the Planet".

With 2,5 million square miles, the Amazon rainforest represents 54% of the total rainforests left of the planet.

Amazon rainforest birds account for for at least one third of the world's bird species, being toucan the most popular icon.

More than half of the world's estimated ten million species of plants, animals and insects live in the tropical forest. Read more at Amazon rainforest animals.

70% of plants found to have anticancer properites are found only in the rainfores.t

The number of edible fruits found in the rainforest is estimated in 3,000. Amazon natives consume more than 1,500, but only 200 are cultivated for use today.

An estimated 90% of Amazon rainforest plants used by Amazon natives have not been studied by modern science.

In 1500 there were an estimated 6 to 9 million Amazon natives. By 1900 the number has gone down to one million lelf in Brazil.

Today, the number is believed to be of around 250,000 Amazon natives, comprising 215 ethnic groups with 170 different languages.

There may also be fifty or so Amazon tribes living in the depths of the Amazon rainforest that have never had contact with the outside world.

An estimated number of 2,700 million acres of the rainforest are burned each year.

And there more;

1. Plant Diversity: In every 2.47 acres of Amazonia, there are 1500 plant species, 750 tree species, and 900 tons of living plants. According to Rain Tree, 438,000 species of plants have been registered as having economic or social interest.

2. Animal Diversity: There are 300 non-lizard reptile species, 175 lizard species, 500 mammalian species, and 1/3 of the world’s birds in the Amazon Rainforest. There are also 30 million insect species.

3. Human Destruction: It is estimated that in rainforests around the world, 150 acres of rainforest are burned every minute and 130 animal, plant, and insect species are lost every day. The destruction is due to logging, slash-and-burn agricultural techniques, cattle ranches, mining, and subsistence agriculture among other things.

4. Oxygen: An entire 20% of Earth’s oxygen is derived from the Amazon Rainforest alone.

5. Extreme Rainfall: The Amazon Rainforest receives an entire nine feet of rain every year.

6. The Amazon River: Most of the Amazon River’s water is from the glacial melt in the Peruvian Andes.The river has 16% of all of the world’s river water and empties 28 billion gallons into the Atlantic everyminute. It has 1100 tributaries and its drainage basin is 2,722,000 square miles.

7. It’s Huge: The rainforest covers 1.2 billion acres and is 2.5 million square miles. It covers more thanhalf of Brazil and 2/5ths of South America. If the rainforest was a country, it would be the 9th largest inthe world and be larger than the continental United States.

8. Unique and Specialized Ecosystem: The plants and animals in the Amazon have evolved in such a waythat they create a tight-knit ecosystem. Each plant and animal relies on another greatly for its survival,which means that the Amazon Rainforest’s ecosystem is very delicate.

9. Temperature: The rainforest is very humid and has a larger temperature difference between day and night than between seasons. Its temperature is an average of 79˚F.

10. Changing River Flow: The Amazon River once poured into the Pacific Ocean. When the Andes Mountains were formed 15 million years ago, the Amazon River’s flow was slowly blocked until freshwater lakes were forced to be formed. Approximately 10 million years ago, the river wound its wayback to pour into the Atlantic instead.

11. Forest Floor: The bottommost layer of the Amazon Rainforest. 2% of sunlight makes it to this layer which is filled with decomposing plants and tree roots. Large animals eat on this layer and decomposers are everywhere.

12. Understory: The layer of the rainforest that is second to the bottom. It receives 2-5% of sunlight and is packed with dense leaf cover.

13. Canopy: The layer that is second to the top. It has smooth, oval leaves that aren’t nearly as big as those in the understory, as these are closer to the sun.

14. Emergent Layer: The topmost layer of the Amazon Rainforest. It is made up of the tops of trees thatcan grow to be 200 feet tall. The leaves are very small at this level and are covered in wax so they canhold water.

15. Tribes: According to Rain Tree, there are approximately 200,000 natives living in Amazonia today. This is in stark contrast to the 10 million that are estimated to have lived there 500 years ago.

16. Money in the Rainforest: Harvesting an acre of timber from the rainforest nets $400/year. Ranching cattle on an acre gives $60/year. However, sustainably harvesting resources from an acre of rainforest nets $2400/year and employs local natives.

17. Countries: The rainforest stretches throughout Ecuador, Venezuela, Brazil, Bolivia, Suriname, French Guiyana, Guyana, Peru, and Colombia.

18. The World’s Pharmacy: About 25% of all drugs are derived from rainforest ingredients. However, it is estimated that scientists have only tested 1% of tropical plants for medicinal uses. Plant species are becoming extinct every day due to deforestation, and with them, our ability to cure new diseases.

19. Forest Energy: Out of all the energy that goes into the Amazon, 9/10ths of it are stored in tree leaves and tissues.

20. Amazonian Soil: 99% of the soil’s nutrients are in the topsoil. The forest floor is porous and traps nutrients easily. The roots of trees and plants keep the nutrient-rich topsoil fromwashing away.

21. Amazon River Floods: The rainforest floods from June to October, as the snowmelt from thePeruvian Andes makes the water in the Amazon River rise 30-45 ft.

And if we can't learn to protect that lot, we may as well move to the moon at least there's nothing there we can screw up!

Regards,

Lee.
 
Yes but everybody knows that 82% of statistics are made up, 34 % of people know this !
 
That leaves 66% that don't and anyway, the above stats on the Amazonian Rain Forest are correct. Unless of course you want to refute every single known authority on the Rain Forest who says exactly the same thing regarding the statistics?

Rome burns but the crazy people still dance around the fires anyway.

Regards,

Lee.
 
I have been outside a few times in the last week and can report that global warming hasn't reached the south of England :D.
 
Very interesting post Lee. I don't think many who question the man made global warming theory would dispute the necessity of the rain forests for the many and varied reasons you mention.
I have yet to be convinced by the likes of Al Gore & co. and once some theories start costing us money in the form of taxes presented as being for our own good, or the good of the planet, then I am even less likely to believe it.
 
Hi Alex,

Personally, I'd laugh like a drain when politicians come up with tax incentives to help save the planet if it were not all so ridiculous.

Center for Biological Diversity's says this;

"Polar bears are dying. As global warming accelerates, the sea ice they depend on for survival is literally melting away. Bears are starving and drowning as they have to swim farther and farther to reach solid ice. Some are even turning to cannibalism in a desperate search for food. Those trapped on land hundreds of miles from the nearest ice often wander near villages in search of food and are shot.

As if that weren’t enough, oil and gas drilling is destroying and polluting their fast-dwindling Arctic habitat and unsustainable hunting continues unabated.

Two-thirds of all polar bears — including all bears in Alaska — will be extinct by 2050 if current trends continue. The rest of the species will be gone by the end of the century.

But it’s not too late to save the polar bear if we join together and take immediate action. The science is clear. We know what needs to be done — we just need to build the political support to do it.

Please sign the petition below to encourage President Barack Obama to rein in global warming and save the polar bear now."

Phew!! That's ok then. We can blame the President if things go pear shaped for the polar bear.

Just 3 pounds a month will save the polar bear according to the World Wild Life fund. Then again, the WWL want your money for an endless list of threatened species and 3 quid a month will save them all apparently.

Adopt a polar bear and the WWL will give you this;

Beautiful cuddly toy of your animal
Gift pack including a certificate and photo of your adopted animal, a fact book about your adopted species, bookmarks, stickers and a WWF 'What we do' leaflet.
Wild World magazine delivered 3 times a year plus regular updates on your chosen animal
Perfect as a Last minute gift Even if you order late you can get a certificate to print or email to give on the day!

I liked the bit where you get a photo of your adopted animal!!?? How does that work? "Adopt a wildebeest and get to choose one from the 1.4 million rumbling across the Serengeti for just three quid a month.

Updates on your chosen animal? Well,....we would.....if we can find the pure white bear amongst the millions of acres of snow in the Northern Hemisphere where they live.

Does three quid a month actually save anything? Or does it keep certain people in a style they have grown accustomed to?

Regards,

Lee.
 
Lee Fletcher said:
Does three quid a month actually save anything? Or does it keep certain people in a style they have grown accustomed to?
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My thoughts exactly. It's like that Dogs Trust advert - " sponser a dog and your new friend will even write to you " ! WTF! It's a dog! - what they're basically saying is give us some money and we'll employ people to write letters to you while pretending to be homeless dogs.
 
In the face of the overwhelming evidence presented to us, not only by scientists, but by most of our own experiences of recent intense weather patterns, I am struggling to understand why this is still being debated.
Is it indicative of the comfort in which we live and hence the detatchment from the world around us, or cynicism gone barking?
 
"When considering anything do not lose its opposite."

Not being spoonfed doesn't make you detached from the world, far from it.

There is enough conflicting evidence in this thread to highlight that no one can specifically say what actually is happening. So to say the debate should stop or to suggest there is one explanation that some just don't get is plain plumb wrong.
 
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Damian Kimmins said:
In the face of the overwhelming evidence presented to us, not only by scientists, but by most of our own experiences of recent intense weather patterns, I am struggling to understand why this is still being debated. Is it indicative of the comfort in which we live and hence the detatchment from the world around us, or cynicism gone barking?


The reason why it is still being debated Damian, is because the planet has a long history of changing climate and weather patterns long before we came along. It is because of the refusal of the "believers" to even consider they might not be right. It is because of the multi national industry that global warming has become. It is because of the arrogance of people like Al Gore. It is because of the downright refusal of many to consider alternative theories. Read a few of the other posts on here that offer alternative views, there are plenty from credible sources.
I think the main difference between the "believers" and the less than convinced is the refusal to accept they might be wrong. Of course they may well be right, but alternative explanations should not be ignored or ridiculed as they so often are
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Ash Gould said:
"When considering anything do not lose its opposite."

Not being spoonfed doesn't make you detached from the world, far from it.

There is enough conflicting evidence in this thread to highlight that no one can specifically say what actually is happening. So to say the debate should stop or to suggest there is one explanation that some just don't get is plain plumb wrong.
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Quite Ash, cynicism is healthy, in moderation. To an extreme however, it is to your detriment.
 
Damian Kimmins said:
In the face of the overwhelming evidence presented to us, not only by scientists, but by most of our own experiences of recent intense weather patterns, I am struggling to understand why this is still being debated.
Is it indicative of the comfort in which we live and hence the detatchment from the world around us, or cynicism gone barking?
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But it is not overwhelming and it should be debated about how much of it is factual. It is used as mentioned in this thread as a stick to beat people with and extract money from. 100 years of data for a planet that is 5 billion years old is the proverbial drop in the ocean. Yes we "may" be having an effect but as it stands no one can say for certain in what way. This planet has probably been through a lot more than anything our short term tenure can throw at it.

Either way and believe it or not guess whos paying?
 
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