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Global Warming

I think that if you take the time to look at the scientific evidence and the views of respected climate scientists there can be little doubt that we are in a period of significant climate change. The correlation between the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and the combustion of fossil fuels associated with the industrialisation of society is stark to say the least. The earth's climate has fluctuated throughout its history and it might be impossible to prove that human activity is contributing to the changes in the last 100 years even thought the evidence points that way. The problem is if we stick our heads in the sand and we are wrong, the consequences will be calamitous.

Steve
 
What gets me is how we are led to believe that putting our rubbish in 10 different bins and recycling frozen burger packaging is somehow going to help or reverse mans negative effect on the planet. Utter BS.

How's about we stop coca cola from producing millions of plastic bottles EVERY day, or stop China from filling its cities with smog, stop cows from farting and generally stop conforming to the idea that 'growth' is best.

It's not going to happen is it?
 
Steve,... It will be 'calamitus' when our reliance on renewables means all the lights going out!

Whatever your beliefs regarding climate change, the undisputable fact is there are just to many of us on this planet and it will be left to Mother Nature to rectify...not unlike an overstocked pond.
 
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As the Daily Mail has been mentioned, I thought you might like a peek at a little survey they found that had almost managed to slip in unnoticed, despite it's stunning findings and implications.

Global warming stopped 16 years ago, reveals Met Office report quietly released... and here is the chart to prove it | Mail Online

From my point of view, it is equally likely that all....or none of these set's of statistics that pop up with boring frequency...are relevant. The old saying 'There are lies, damned lies and statistics' is very true. ANY scientist, technician, philosopher (and most certainly any politician) worth their salt can fairly rapidly come up with a set of statistics to 'prove' :rolleyes: that their theories are right...and is the ONLY ones to believe :D

That weather PATTERNS are changing is undeniable, that the pattern of oceanic currents has changed, and is causing the polar caps to shrink is also undeniable. However, what it is that has bought these changes about I have no idea....and as far as I can see, nor has anyone else! It has been suggested that the Gulf Stream (the warm oceanic current that skirts the south and west of the UK...and keeps our climate in the pleasant 'temperate' range)....may soon reverse, which apparently would cause U.K temperatures to plummet by a fair few degrees. What price 'global warming' for us lot then?

This little snippet rather amuses me.......

Global warming - Conservapedia

We really are stuck in the 'Choose the expert you wish to believe' spiral aren't we? We might do well to remember that we have listened to, and relied on, 'experts' for rather a long time. All of these top 'experts' are very highly paid individuals, diligently shoving nose to grindstone (and spending MILLIONS of pounds of taxpayers money in the process) to arrive at some startling facts, not least of which being the inspirational revelation that 'cows fart a lot'. The end product of all our reliance on these 'experts' is the emergence of a huge number of extremely rich 'experts', none of whom can agree with one another....and a similar number of millionaire politicians who commissioned them. The state the world is now in is perhaps a testament to how well that has worked :D

Cheers, Dave.
 
They tried calling it global warming then obviously its bloody freezing, so now they call it climate change!

Another government plan to try and con a few quid out of the public and put a few extra laws and procedures in place
 
From my point of view, it is equally likely that all....or none of these set's of statistics that pop up with boring frequency...are relevant. The old saying 'There are lies, damned lies and statistics' is very true. ANY scientist, technician, philosopher (and most certainly any politician) worth their salt can fairly rapidly come up with a set of statistics to 'prove' :rolleyes: that their theories are right...and is the ONLY ones to believe :D



Cheers, Dave.

Yep, you're not wrong Dave,
All those with a vested interest will manipulate facts and figures in order to further their cause, and therebye manipulate the rabble,.. seems to be the way of the world we live in.
 
Dear All,

There is actually so much stuff about this issue floating around its very hard to decipher the facts from fancy full fiction. Last year started off with a hose pipe ban for many, but 2012 turned out to be the second wettest year on record! Before the rain started falling the experts said it would take at least a year of rainfall to fill up the UK aquifers. It took four weeks.

In real terms, based on records kept not through a gaggle of experts throwing paper darts at each other across a table, the UK has been getting steadily wetter since 1960. Overall, the Met Office says the UK's been getting wetter in recent decades, with a five per cent increase in rainfall from 1961-1980 to 1981-2010. And extreme rainfall has also been increasing. The Met Office has also recorded an increase in the frequency of days of extreme rainfall in the UK since 1960. More intense days of rainfall that occur on average about once in every one hundred days over the late twentieth century have been becoming gradually more frequent, nudging closer to once in every 70 days over the past decade or so.

Actually, this extra rain is causing problems.

A bit of blurb first, well,.. not really blurb but research carried out by the DARA Group. (these are independent and refuse to accept funding from any institution or government that might jeopardise their independence) Type in their name to look at them. You can look at everything to do with DARA their funding and all the details. A very transparent organisation, a breath of fresh air in fact.

"Climate change is already contributing to the deaths of nearly 400,000 people a year and costing the world more than $1.2 trillion, wiping 1.6% annually from global GDP, according to a new study.

The impacts are being felt most keenly in developing countries, according to the research, where damage to agricultural production from extreme weather linked to climate change is contributing to deaths from malnutrition, poverty and their associated diseases.

Air pollution caused by the use of fossil fuels is also separately contributing to the deaths of at least 4.5m people a year, the report found.

The 331-page study, entitled Climate Vulnerability Monitor: A Guide to the Cold Calculus of A Hot Planet and published on Wednesday, was carried out by the DARA group, a non-governmental organisation based in Europe, and the Climate Vulnerable Forum. It was written by more than 50 scientists, economists and policy experts, and commissioned by 20 governments.

By 2030, the researchers estimate, the cost of climate change and air pollution combined will rise to 3.2% of global GDP, with the world's least developed countries forecast to bear the brunt, suffering losses of up to 11% of their GDP."


All this rain has an impact on our river systems. But what about those living near rivers?

James Meadway of the Gaurdian said;

"Flood defence expenditure has been cut by 25% since 2010, while 294 schemes that should have received funding since then have yet to be started. The costs apparently saved in cuts to flood defences are more than outweighed by the costs of repairing damage afterwards. One estimate already puts the costs of flooding at £1bn a year – four times the Environment Agency's budget. The coalition's slash-and-burn austerity measures do nothing to help the economy today – and are shoring up huge problems for the future. Every £1 spent on flood defences has been estimated to save £8 in future.

If government has been recklessly short-sighted, the insurance companies are little better. The five biggest firms account for half the domestic market between them. The largest, Aviva, had revenues of £50bn last year. Floods are expensive for insurers. But these huge corporations are more than big enough to take the cost. Guarantees on government flood defence spending are, for them, little more than a means to protect profits – a public subsidy for their shareholders. Householders in high-risk areas still lose out, with reports of those attempting to renew their insurance in recent months being quoted hugely inflated prices."

Then there are the direct effects from siltation through increase rain like reduced rate of egg survival at spawning sites together with spawning gravels becoming compacted. Invertebrate types and numbers reduced whilst extra silt acts as a vehicle for certain pesticides and phosphates.

All this without a single melting glacier in sight.

Regards,

Lee
 
Dear All,



In real terms, based on records kept not through a gaggle of experts throwing paper darts at each other across a table, the UK has been getting steadily wetter since 1960. Overall, the Met Office says the UK's been getting wetter in recent decades, with a five per cent increase in rainfall from 1961-1980 to 1981-2010. And extreme rainfall has also been increasing. The Met Office has also recorded an increase in the frequency of days of extreme rainfall in the UK since 1960.


All this rain has an impact on our river systems. But what about those living near rivers?

James Meadway of the Gaurdian said;

"Flood defence expenditure has been cut by 25% since 2010, while 294 schemes that should have received funding since then have yet to be started. The costs apparently saved in cuts to flood defences are more than outweighed by the costs of repairing damage afterwards. One estimate already puts the costs of flooding at £1bn a year – four times the Environment Agency's budget. The coalition's slash-and-burn austerity measures do nothing to help the economy today – and are shoring up huge problems for the future. Every £1 spent on flood defences has been estimated to save £8 in future.

If government has been recklessly short-sighted, the insurance companies are little better. The five biggest firms account for half the domestic market between them. The largest, Aviva, had revenues of £50bn last year. Floods are expensive for insurers. But these huge corporations are more than big enough to take the cost. Guarantees on government flood defence spending are, for them, little more than a means to protect profits – a public subsidy for their shareholders. Householders in high-risk areas still lose out, with reports of those attempting to renew their insurance in recent months being quoted hugely inflated prices."

Then there are the direct effects from siltation through increase rain like reduced rate of egg survival at spawning sites together with spawning gravels becoming compacted. Invertebrate types and numbers reduced whilst extra silt acts as a vehicle for certain pesticides and phosphates.

All this without a single melting glacier in sight.

Regards,

Lee

Interesting and informative post Lee

So much of the data is subjective when it comes to climate change,..you mention the Met. Office stating that it has been getting wetter in the UK in recent decades. Is this the same Met Office who were, only 3 years ago, advising gardeners to rip out all their moisture loving plants and replace them with sun loving drought resistant mediterranean varieties? [Which tend to hate prolonged wet conditions!]

Many find it convenient to blame riverside flooding on climate, but surely some of the blame must fall on those who have sanctioned the concreting over of our flood plains. Rivers are managed as flood relief channels nowadays, with the emphasis on getting the water out to sea as quickly as possible instead of allowing it to lay on the old water meadows.

The last nine or ten months have seen exceptionly high water tables,..making it difficult to fish my beloved Hampshire Avon, but in general, abstraction and low flows are the bane of many of our rivers and streams.
Low flows are often the cause of gravel siltation when the riverbed is not scoured.
Compacted gravels were rectified by a horse and special plough/rake 100 years ago on the Avon, prior to the salmon run.

The EA were encouraging the incorporation of 'buffer strips' along riverbanks to help prevent soil and pollutant run-off from agricultural land.

As I say, its all subjective.
 
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As the Daily Mail has been mentioned, I thought you might like a peek at a little survey they found that had almost managed to slip in unnoticed, despite it's stunning findings and implications. Dave Gauntlett
Global warming stopped 16 years ago, reveals Met Office report quietly released.......

Cheers Dave

A very interesting link for all those who have implicit trust in the scientists! Profesor Phil Jones seems to be a great one for moving the goal posts when recent research suggests "man made" global warming may not be so obvious and predictable and there is a genuine possibilty that the "experts" are not so expert after all!
So while there is a huge difference between facts and opinions, two facts do seem irrefutable. The climate temperature has not increased for 16 years, but we are shafted by ever more fanatical green taxes and obligations!
 
Hi Dave,

You are right of course and there is much much more to conditions that affect our rivers other than global warming or heavy rainfall. Conservation minded anglers do what they can where they can but in reality it remains a tiny percentage of what needs to be done.

I often think that global warming is a money spinning industry all of its own seeing as the topic is a major source of funding for all types of experts. Walk into the European Parliament and shout "GLOBAL WARMING!!" from the top of the staircase and you'll get a suitcase stuffed full of Euro's thrust into your hands to walk back out with. I would not be surprised if a lot of the global warming issue were kept alive purely for funding purposes?

Regards,

Lee.
 
Hi Alex,

It was laughable when government imposed different levels of tax banding for vehicles depending on their emissions.

So their theory is, if I pay lots of cash or my 4x4 along with everyone else all of a sudden the higher emissions will disappear!!??

I'd laugh like a drain if it were not so annoying when dullard politicians merely assume we are all thick and stupid!!!

Regards,

Lee.
 
Lee, I think their alleged reasoning behind it was to put people off using 4 x 4 vehicles, while at the same time hoping they wouldn't of course! A bit like fags. They keep putting them up allegedly for the smokers health but would be horrified at the reduction in tax if everyone packed up!
 
I'd laugh like a drain if it were not so annoying when dullard politicians merely assume we are all thick and stupid!!!

Regards,

Lee.

And the dullard politicians would be correct in thinking we are stupid because every 4 years we all turn out and vote for them......................
 
Hi Alex,

It was laughable when government imposed different levels of tax banding for vehicles depending on their emissions.

So their theory is, if I pay lots of cash or my 4x4 along with everyone else all of a sudden the higher emissions will disappear!!??

Interesting you bring up the increased tax on vehicles that emit more C02.

It is for precisely that reason that Low tax free market economists are the the principal group of climate change deniers.

To control carbon emissions the common mechanism Goverments use is to to tax and regulate emissions, now this flies in the face of the their political theories as they want the opposite, low tax and low regulation, an economic free for all where companies are free to do what they please with profit being the guiding factor. Beggar thy neighbour

This group have therefore identified Climate change as a major obstacle to their doctrines, scientifically they can't oppose it so instead choose to throw mud.
To do this they have followed a tried and tested route. When the first research linking Tobacco and cancer came out the big companies and individuals with interests in the money from it found they couldn't scientifically challenge the research, so instead they threw mud, disinformation and essentially put tobacco restrictions (and yes taxes) back decades. Many Thousands of people died earlier as a result

The Daily Mail article has also been mentioned.

Response from Myles Allen the scientist who David Rose misrepresented in his Mail argument My response to the Mail on Sunday's 'great green con' article | Myles Allen | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Skepticalscience also did a good piece trashing David Rose's article David Rose Hides the Rise in Global Warming

Daily Mail, Right wing friend of the rich and powerful, deliberately misrepresents science, disinformation tactics similar to the tobacco lobby's oops have i mentioned that before

I take it that those on here that get their climate change views from free market economists rather than climate scientists apply the same rules to other areas of their lives. Prehaps getting a local Hairdresser to service the car, the butchers good to go to for medical problems
 
Stewart, the Daily Mail is reporting the news, not making it. Prof Phil Jones stated that he would only be "worried" about his theories if a 15 year period showed no further increase in global warming. It is now 16 years since the world average temp increased. Guess what? The learned scientist, of the kind you clearly hold in such esteem, has now changed his mind from 15 years to twenty years! What will happen when we reach twenty years? Will it then be twenty five years?
Or are you going to blame market economies or the Daily Mail for his change of tune?
 
the Daily Mail is reporting the news, not making it

Alex if you really believe the Daily Mail only reports the news and has no political axe to grind then you are terminally deluded

Read the links i posted debunking the Mail's usual misrepresentation of the facts, if you can't be bothered to read another side of an argument whats the point in having a debate
 
Hi Alex,

It's an interesting thought, people giving up their 4x4's because they cost more to tax. I keep mine simply because I use it for my business and what these vehicles were originally made for, reaching places one simply can't in a saloon car. Plus it can have advantages whilst out in the countryside taking part in rural pursuits as well.

Also, I live in what's regarded as a "posh" village in the Vale of Belvoir. Here and in all the surrounding villages its 4x4 land for a host of reasons. One of them being the rich like to own at least one even if they don't use them for traditional rural usage. These people could not give a hoot how much road tax they pay simply because the cost of taxing their cars does not even amount to small change to them. Of course you are right about the reasoning, and the fact that governments really want more 4x4 owners so more money comes through their letter box.

Do you know, a group of us were on about smoking only the other night whilst we were all trying our hardest to damage our liver's down the pub. In Grantham for instance, my nearest metropolis, its quite rare that you either smell tobacco or see a lot of people smoking in the street? Then again, one particular pub in Grantham, the No Body Inn, has hoards of smokers outside in the better weather chuffing their heads off. Thing is though, all their friends that "don't" smoke also congregate outside with them as well in a guess what is a 50-50 mix of smokers and none smokers. So bang goes the theory behind the ban for smoking in pubs for that particular pub because they have simply taken the problem outside!!

Hi Stewart,

Loved your post.

I am constantly amazed by the doctrines that a lot of these quango's trot out which of course are merely smoke screens generated for their own hidden agenda's. This is nothing new in this of course just that there are more of them around now a days desperate to get their sticky little fingers in the short term quick profit pies.

The question is, how to sort out the wheat from the chaff?

Hi Richard,

Only 60% of those eligible to vote did so in the last general election. I did not vote myself so was in the 40% group. I didn't vote simply because I could not find any party worth voting for. The last government made an appalling mess whilst this coalition of fools are doing little better.

A domestic politician walks up onto a podium or in front of a TV camera and trots out a speech carefully written by trusted aids without having the foggiest idea what he/she is talking about. They bumble through a political career with some stumbling into a seat in the cabinet if they have the right mates. There they carry on waffling about lots of stuff they know now't about until either their government gets chucked out or they get caught fiddling or breaking the law. Only to pop up once again spouting more absolute nonsense in the European Parliament but getting paid a hell of a lot more to do it.

Frankly, I'd be a lot better off if I voted for our coal man. At least he does an honest days work.

Regards,

Lee.
 
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