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Fish Retention

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Richard Hamlyn

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Following loosly on from the 15lb Wye fiasco I thought I would seek advice from the experienced anglers on BFW regarding what to do if I am ever lucky enough to catch a large fish. I need to qualify that by saying where I fish there are a significant number of 10lb+ fish and to be honest I never bother that much with photo's of fish this size as I consider them to basicaly be just "man with fish" and rather pointless after a while.

However I live in hopes of catching a fish along the lines of the Wye 15 (only bigger) and to this end I require guideance. In order to get a decent photo of my hoped for capture I will need to leave my peg as the nearest angler is going to be at least 5 minutes walk away. Now I carry with me at all times a large carp sack which I intend to use for such an occasion. This would have to be deployed in slack water but it would be the same water that fish are rested in the landing net. So my question; is this acceptable for a period of no longer than 15 to 30 minutes?
 
You don't need to leave your peg at all. What you need is a camera screwed onto a bankstick and some form of remote release for the camera. I've been using a 2nd hand Canon G5, which comes with an infra-red remote, for several years now and never had a problem. That way the fish only needs to be retained long enough to set up the camera. If I'm feeling confident then I even set up the camera before I've caught a fish.
 
Taking Richard's point a step further: if one was to catch a possible river record, and therefore require a witness, how should one retain such a specimen until help arrives?
 
Thus ensues the edgy topic of barbel tubes, keepnet's and the every faithful onion sack.:eek: Is the solution just not to take your phone with you?

Along the lines of this topic:

Does anyone know where I can find one of the old fox specimen tubes - rectangular in design zip along the top, made out of carp sack like material? They don't do them anymore, and the nearest thing on the market is a wychwood pike tube which is not designed for putting anything other than pike in?
any ideas much appreciated.
 
I have caught an incredible number of enormous barbel (15lb-20lb) and I think talk of their welfare and how to treat them after capture is utter garbage. It's a fish, and a fatty. It's not a Nobel prize winner, or a nun. Laying out the red carpet for them and inviting them to meet your family is a bit over the top. Along time ago I dispensed with the weedy way in which a fish is traditionally returned to the river (all this gently holding them in the current and then allowing them to swim off when they are ready- ridiculous. What about me? I want to catch another, even bigger fish).

Now, I have found that it is far more efficient to return the fish by taking it by the tail and swinging it about my head, really building up some momentum. And then, release. It's vital to get the timing right. Early on many a specimen fish ended up in a tree and then it's a complete pain climbing up to untangle the thing from branches. It's easy to cut yourself too. I generally aim to land the fish towards the opposite bank, well away from where I am fishing. Again, timing and gauging distance is key as there is seldom time to walk round to the opposite bank to deal with the flappy, dazed fish. It can also be fun to do this when you have another angler opposite you and especially if they are under a brolly. They freak at the splashy commotion in front of them and when they emerge to try and make sense of the fuss I just shout Otter! Otter! They usually grumble, pack up and move on. Brilliant.

But practising this catch and release technique is important. You can do so at home of course. A cat or a Wellington work well, but its better to use something of broadly similar weight etc. A baby or young midget are an excellent choice when you hold them by the ankle. The parents only get anxious at the point of release and I have learnt through bitter experience that you do need something soft and cushioning in the place you think they may land (trial and error is the key here).

Richard, in terms of a sack- unlike something you may wear to a party or at a school sports day, yours must NOT be waterproof and must not contain potatoes.

Cheers
 
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Howard Cooke , comedy gold
that is all.
Do you recommend practicing in a room actually wide enough to swing
a cat, or do you think the broom cupboard makes a more apt stage for practicing? :confused:
 
I once caught an enormous chub from the Trent whilst barbelling. I could have had a witness within 40mins, I chose not to bother. My reason was for the fishes welfare, it had already been out of the water 3 times to ensure correct weight, and a further once for photographs..
It wasnt a british record only 4oz short though and I just didnt want to put it under anymore stress so
I put her back for another day......... hopefully soon.
 
According to the chairman of a well known single species society if you catch a river record while illegally night fishing on a stretch where night fishing is forbidden it is acceptable to place the fish into a deep landing net and retain it until it is light enough to take some daylight pictures.
If you don't happen to have one he will even offer to bring one out for you; how helpful is that? What a smashing bloke he is.
 
Adrian Williams said:
According to the chairman of a well known single species society if you catch a river record while illegally night fishing on a stretch where night fishing is forbidden it is acceptable to place the fish into a deep landing net and retain it until it is light enough to take some daylight pictures.
If you don't happen to have one he will even offer to bring one out for you; how helpful is that? What a smashing bloke he is.
Click to expand...

Is that only if you're seven miles from stoke though ?
 
Roman Vann said:
Howard Cooke , comedy gold
that is all.
Do you recommend practicing in a room actually wide enough to swing
a cat, or do you think the broom cupboard makes a more apt stage for practicing? :confused:
Click to expand...

The garden is better Roman, or a playing field. Just not when people are playing. Lobbing a baby or young midget about the place is generally frowned upon. It's not quite an Olympic sport yet.

Weirdly, I was reading Anglers Mail just after seeing your post. Is that you on page 4- on my local river holding an enormous barbel? Lovely.
 
Anthony Pearson said:
Taking Richard's point a step further: if one was to catch a possible river record, and therefore require a witness, how should one retain such a specimen until help arrives?
Click to expand...

Anthony,

Well that two of us who want advice, but no one is being overly helpful at the moment. With all the experience on BFW you would think someone would have an idea. I definitely do not feel comfortable resting fish in my landing net as the larger fish only just fit in there as it is and no matter how I try and secure the handle while I'm faffing around with mats and scales and such like I would be afraid of it going in fish and all. In my match fishing days I have never had a problem with keep nets but these were mainly small fish around the 4lb mark and could easily fit across the diameter of the net. I have sacked plenty of carp without harm coming to the fish but I am worried if this is OK for Barbel. I have heard mention of "tunnels" which I have never seen in action, but by the sound of them they might be OK in relatively shallow fast flowing water, but I'd like to see someone peg one out in the virtually static 12' deep water where I am. I am concerned about the fish getting enveloped in the sack and not being able to open its gill covers properly and as this would be possibly a "fish of a lifetime" I do not want to risk a disaster.
 
Richard Hamlyn said:
Anthony,

Well that two of us who want advice, but no one is being overly helpful at the moment. With all the experience on BFW you would think someone would have an idea. I definitely do not feel comfortable resting fish in my landing net as the larger fish only just fit in there as it is and no matter how I try and secure the handle while I'm faffing around with mats and scales and such like I would be afraid of it going in fish and all. In my match fishing days I have never had a problem with keep nets but these were mainly small fish around the 4lb mark and could easily fit across the diameter of the net. I have sacked plenty of carp without harm coming to the fish but I am worried if this is OK for Barbel. I have heard mention of "tunnels" which I have never seen in action, but by the sound of them they might be OK in relatively shallow fast flowing water, but I'd like to see someone peg one out in the virtually static 12' deep water where I am. I am concerned about the fish getting enveloped in the sack and not being able to open its gill covers properly and as this would be possibly a "fish of a lifetime" I do not want to risk a disaster.
Click to expand...

Richard, Anthony,

I for one haven't answered you, ( which i will do now ) because to be honest i thought your post was a leg pull - Sorry mate !

Firstly the size of your net is important, if you think your landing net is too small to a accomodate the larger fish you are catching then it probably is - the solution is to get a bigger net !
Having said that the bigger nets can be awkward, and potentially allow a tired fish to be pushed round by the flow, and end up facing the opposite way, so that it's not getting the benefit of the flow pushing through it's gills.
The net i use is a 42" net on a 36" frame, because i prefer the extra depth it offers which proves invaluable if recovering a Barbel from a bank which is a couple of feet above the water, i still have enough depth in the net to comfortably have the fish submeged.
As far as recovery goes ( which i know is not the subject matter per se' here ) the biggest mistake people make is removing the fish from the water immediatly after landing, and then those ( usually inexperienced in the fragility of a Barbel ) who in their genuine ignorance of the danger to the Barbel unhook it, paw over it, admire it, gently wipe away the weed and bits stuck to it, admire it again .... then go to their bag to get the scales, weigh it, then decide they want a photo, set their camera up - or if the fish is lucky they've got someone handy to take it, by which time they've got a Barbel in serious trouble, if not dead !

The way i retain a fish, and i do for at least 5 mins with all my fish even if i haven't taken a photo, and unhooked it in the water.
First i unhook the fish in the net if i can, if i can't then the fish is allowed a few minutes recovery until i'm happy i can remove it for unhooking, it's out and on the mat hook out, and back in the water without delay.
At that point i'll take a bank stick complete with a rod or butt rest attatched, and drive it vertically into either the margin or just on the soft bank so that there is about a foot or a bit more sticking out of the ground, or if in the margins drive it down until i'm happy its solid, and the pull out the extendable part until it's at least a foot out of the water,
I then take a cord which is always attached to the back of my net, and wind it around the bank stick, and over the net handle securing it finally with a hitch type knot that can be easily released with one pull of the tag end, when i'm happy that the net is secure, and is going absolutley nowhere, and the fish is comfortable, only then will i divert my attention to other things.
If when i arrive at a swim the ground looks as though it's going to give me a bit of trouble using a bank stick to stake out my net, then i find somewhere i can drive the bank stick in before i cast my rods, so i'm not faffing about trying to do it whilst i've got a fish in the net, and often is the time i have to do that.
If i have taken a photo, and if i've done that i will have weighed also, the fish will have in all cases have been out of the water for less than a minute for each, i never weigh, and take a photo in one go.

To my mind it's not acceptable to recover a Barbel in anything that i could not at the very least see the Barbel clearly in, and in this neck of the woods i'm lucky in that i can almost always also put my hands straight to the Barbel if i wanted to.
In a keep net that would be difficult, if not impossible sometimes, and a sack is just a no no ! there is no way that you can see if the Barbel is recovering well, and in my opinion as much as keep nets, sacks have no place in Barbel fishing.

As far as securing a Barbel while you go off looking for a witness or someone to take photo's again in my opinion it's not acceptable to leave any fish let alone Barbel to do that, we have mobiles that can be used to contact someone you know who might be fishing nearby or call a mate out to take a pick or wittness your catch.
If either of those is not possible ..... TOUGH !
Providing that your Barbel is in the water with gentle or ample flow, and recovered well, it will come to no harm in a landing net even for a protracted period whilst waiting for your mate to arrive, but no way is it acceptable to leave it in my opinion.

My approach to some may seem excessive to some, in allowing the Barbel time to recover before removal for unhooking - that's if i have to remove it from the water, and then more time back in the water before weighing, and then again before a photo, all that can mean at least 20 mins in the net with at least 5 mins in between weighing and photos, which with a bit of forethought in positioning of the mat, and camera pod, means..... out of the water... on the mat, lift the fish , click , click, back on the mat, and in the net, and back in the water, almost always inside a minute.
I'm touching wood here, but i've never once had a Barbel close to being in trouble, and i believe it's not luck, it's because of my obsession with Barbel recovery, and time i keep the fish out of water.

Sorry to have digressed Richard, but i thought if you were asking those questions ( and why i thought it was a leg pull ) i though it needed saying ;)

So in short Never leave a Barbel unattended even if it's the Bloody British record LOL ! Make sure your net is big enough to accomodate the Biggest Barbel, but it's not neccesary to go to extreme sizes of net to do that.
As far as you're worries of the net coming adrift - just make sure it can't simple as that - do whatever it takes to secure it so it can't, and if you really can't then you'll just have to hold it, and forget any photo's :(

All the best
Ian.
 
Ian,

Many thanks for that. I understand how difficult it is to differentiate between a genuine request for information and a gentle leg pull, so well done for taking the plunge (and considerable time) to reply. Maybe this will prompt others to reply also as they are not normally so reticent when fish welfare is concerned. I am still trying to make my mind up regarding putting a well rested (in the landing net) Barbel in a sack for no more than 30 minutes against my personal experiences with doing the same for a carp as nothing bad happened to the latter and......well.....a fish is a fish after all.

I understand there are many variables at work here. For me the main one is that when a fish comes over my landing net it still has plenty of fight left in it and needs virtually no recovery time and swims strongly in the landing net looking for a way out. However I have also witnessed (sometimes on angling videos by those who should know better) people messing around for ages to get the fish in by which time it is nearly belly up and remains like that in the net for a scary amount of time.
 
Hi Richard,
The problem ( potentialy ) in sacking a Barbel, as opposed to sacking a Carp, whose physiology having evolved in much warmer Asiatic waters for probably hundreds of thousands maybe even millions of years, are capable of tolerating far lower oxygen levels than most other species.
In my opinion even putting a well recovered fighting fit Barbel in a sack for 30 mins is fraught with dangers.
All the sacks i've seen ( and i own a chub brand one for weighing ) are just not suitable being too restrictive in the flow they allow through, and though allow water exchange that vital flow is not present inside the sack making the Barbel work hard for it's oxygen, which in my opinion could potentially see an even fit Barbel go downhill pretty quickly.
Yes they are just fish Richard, but very diffrent in physiology to Carp, and will just not cope with anything like the low levels of Oxygen that a Carp will happily live in, though obviously there's also a limit to how little they can survive with.
This is the issue most have with Barbel in Stillwaters apart from the debate as to whether they can breed in stillwaters, there are times when all still waters can see dramatic drops in Oxygen levels, when unless the levels drop very seriously Carp will happily carry on as normal, the Barbel however i'm certain will be experiencing severe discomfort at lower Oxygen levels that the Carp will still find easily tolerable.
You may well get away with it on numerous occasions Richard if conditions are good, the Barbel is well rested etc etc, but Barbel can easily fool the inexperienced into thinking they are fighting fit when they thash around in the net, - or as some say power off strongly when released, in my opinion it is probably a fish still in a state of anxiety or even panic, and can easily draw on reserves of strength to thrash it's tail a few times then as often is the case they go belly up a few yards down river.
When i retain a fish for recovery i'm not happy unless i see the fish, upright, and supporting itself for several minutes with it's gills moving slowly and rhythmically, when released my fish always just slope off, if ever one thrashed out of the net in a spray of water i'd be really worried as to whether it was recovered.
Still even at the point i release them - what is their blood oxygen level ? - i don't know, i know or hope they are at least in a state where they can easily cope with the flow, and will go off and usually rest up somewhere, because i still believe that even after the lengthy rest they get with me, there may be times when they are not quite back to the point they were when they took my bait in their mouth, and even after a good rest when they appear back to normal, if were deprived of flow where they haven't got to work for their oxygen, they may well very quickly go down hill.
Try this.... hold your breath for as long as you can, and note the time, then after a short recovery to get your breath back, sprint as fast as you can round the block, after 10 mins or so of recovery when you feel you are fairly back to normal, hold your breath again for as long as you can, and note the time again, i can tell you you will start to feel uncomfortable much quicker than your first breath hold.
Sacking in my opinion, is just fraught with to many risks, my thinking is - if we are not going to kill our fish - Barbel or not for eating or whatever, then we should aim to put them back in the very best condition possible so they live to fight another day, that generally speaking is the ethic of most responsible anglers these days, if it weren't in a very short period of time we'd be struggling to catch anything, Barbel and a few other species are so fragile - but especially Barbel i believe, that taking chances like sacking the fish for whatever reason is just not worth the risk.
Anyone leaving a Barbel in a sack for one minute let alone 30 on the waters i bailiff Richard would be off - toot sweet never to return !! i'd probably have to escort him back to his car for his own saftey !

Ian.
 
Ian,

Thanks once again for the comprehensive post. Firstly I have yet to put a Barbel in a sack, as I quite simply have not caught one large enough to warrant making a fuss about getting a photo, so there is no need to frogmarch me from the waters you bailiff. However where I fish there are no rules about retaining Barbel hence the reason for my post. You make some good points regarding Carp and Barbel and also the environment they are living in, unfortunately this opens up the discussion and introduces many variables which makes it difficult to be sure. What would be acceptable and humane in a fast flowing river would not necessarily transfer to still waters or rivers that are so slow moving that they might as well be still waters.

I notice that articles about Mahseer fishing recommend using a "stringer" which seems to be a cord passed through the gill cover and out of the mouth and then the fish is tethered for as long as it takes to recover without any restriction of the amount of oxygenated water it receives. As a Barbel looks like a smaller version of a Mahseer to me would this work?
 
Hi Richard,
"stringers" - crikey, now thats got to be the equivalent of a gallon of hemp and casters stand back and await the 3 foot twitch......:D
 
Richard Hamlyn said:
Ian,

Thanks once again for the comprehensive post. Firstly I have yet to put a Barbel in a sack, as I quite simply have not caught one large enough to warrant making a fuss about getting a photo, so there is no need to frogmarch me from the waters you bailiff. However where I fish there are no rules about retaining Barbel hence the reason for my post. You make some good points regarding Carp and Barbel and also the environment they are living in, unfortunately this opens up the discussion and introduces many variables which makes it difficult to be sure. What would be acceptable and humane in a fast flowing river would not necessarily transfer to still waters or rivers that are so slow moving that they might as well be still waters.

I notice that articles about Mahseer fishing recommend using a "stringer" which seems to be a cord passed through the gill cover and out of the mouth and then the fish is tethered for as long as it takes to recover without any restriction of the amount of oxygenated water it receives. As a Barbel looks like a smaller version of a Mahseer to me would this work?
Click to expand...

Get a big landing net , put your barbel it , place in river , stand on landing net handle , ring your mates [ I presume you have some ] and you will be sorted
 
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